The DWmegawad Club plays: Requiem

In Zdoom I'm using the Boom compatibility set, there is an option called "All special lines can block Use" set to NO. Is that correct or should I toggle it to YES?

scifista42 said:

As if Doom's own brown colour didn't look drab enough, this one surely does. :S

Nothing wrong with brown color looking drab, it's brown.

MAP01: The Gateway

Really short, really simple map. Not much to say, aside from the fact that there's map details in the way of player movement.

MAP02
As a young 'un, I liked Adelusion's maps because they looked really awesome. And even today they look cool, but the gameplay ... eh. This map is a good example: there's good texture use and for-the-time swanky detail, but there's no real flow to the level. It's just a series of encounters to solve, one after another, in a linear and static manner. The only diversion in the level is to pick up the secret. Said secret feels rather arbitrary to me. Neither it nor the activating line is marked, so you'll only find it if you wander back there ... in which case you WILL find it. Making one of the little skull indentations be a switch (with dark eyes instead of red ones) would have been a better set-up, I reckon.

There's very little of much challenge here, in combat terms. Which is fine for map02, I guess. Still, the 'look how clever I am with the reject map' demons made me roll my eyes a bit. It seemed gimmicky for the sake of being gimmicky.

VGA said:

In Zdoom I'm using the Boom compatibility set, there is an option called "All special lines can block Use" set to NO. Is that correct or should I toggle it to YES?

For Zdoom it should be YES.

PrBoom+ has the logic the other way around ('Use Passes Thru All Special Lines', deep in the General tab) and should be set to NO.

For other ports, use the above as a guideline. :)

Map02 - “Sacrificium” by Anthony Czerwonka and Florian Helmerger

Well, I'm switching to pistol starts for now, because this map was pretty trivial on both continuous playthrough and a pistol start.

Another example of visuals (or "scenic impression") being the primary focus above everything else. You can see a lot of tiny details and multi-pattern textures here. They're mostly brown and rusty, which is not my preference, and so it didn't actually look much great to me, just "okay". And the map didn't play any good, either. A few basic shots in the face of imps and demons, one weird pinky demon showcase, and one tedious PE fight. Way too short, simple and plain experience. Regarding the pinkies standing still, it's interesting for a brief moment, but underwhelming as soon as you find out that they won't ever attack you, unless you attack them first. This map's secret room wasn't a cube-hole behind a suspicious texture, but required one step of backtracking through a teleporter and noticing a (rather obvious) new hole in the ground - I've actually found this good, the simplicity of the hideout well matched the simplicity of the whole map. Again, 2/5, and only for the effort put into visuals, otherwise I'd easily rate it 0.

Yeah, going out and seeing that Stonehedge-like area prepares you for something interesting but you only get Helen Keller demons? What's the point.

Otherwise fine for a two minute romp imo.

Map02

It's rather pleasing aesthetically, but the flow of the map and gameplay is certainly flawed. It was much more fun to just ignore the monsters and run around them than to do combat.

I haven't played Requiem since the mid 2000s, hoping it actually gets as good as I remember it.

02 - direct continuation of the previous level, this one is highly artistic, with the new gothic textures used in a superb way. Each area has a unique look with some memorable object in it, the most obvious one being the Stonehenge but I also really like the hanged corpse in a snowy cavern thing. Quite basic gameplay but a great contribution to the wad's overall atmosphere and style. Again, you can check out my unfaithful remake of this map if you want.

Memfis said:

01 [...] If you have nothing better to do, you can play my reimagining of this level.
02 [...] Again, you can check out my unfaithful remake of this map if you want.

I remember playing this 2-map wad and reviewing it for /newstuff. IMO, the maps are indeed good - thanks to improved gameplay, both in challenge and flow, to the pleasant standard I like. Visual references were there.

Map01 – Sacrificium by Anthony Czerwonka and Florian Helmerger – Kills – 100, Items – 100, Secret – 100. End Health – 58, Armor 100. Death Count – Zero

I can't bring myself to like this one, I'm afraid. Boring action, especially the battle against what VGA aptly described as “Helen Keller Demons” in the visually interesting Stonehenge area – props to VGA for 2 quotable observations in a single sentence. ;) Judging from Adam's comments, I guess the mappers deliberately induced “Sleepy Monster Syndrome” in the Pinkies? Yay. Well, I shot them and woke them up, and they went to their great reward in Pinky Heaven.

The map looked alright, and in full view the sky texture was a bit better than I thought it would be.

The layout, IMO, was atrocious; basically each area was a T-bar. No need to worry about getting outflanked here! ;D The Imp trap had a bit more teeth in it than anything from Map01, and the PE trap is where I took most of my damage, thanks to being limited by the single-shotty.

I think the first 2 maps of this megawad indicate why I so fully agree with Tarnsman when he said that there's no reason for a PWAD to have super-easy maps at the start, that that kind of thing is for an official game where easy early levels are part of the learning process. By '97, most Doomers would, of course, have ripped through this like lions feasting on Thompson's Gazelles. So to me, this just feels like a waste of time. And as a further slap in the face, these maps are significantly easier than Entryway and Underhalls, and vastly less interesting in layout.

For the second map in a row, the secret seems geared for continuers, since I was at the exit when I decided to see if the secret was hidden in the Pinky section, and sure enough, it was, and it was a shellbox coming exactly when I had no need for it. I guess the next question I have for Adam is, “Was Requiem designed for continuous play?”

In spite of all my complaints, this map is clearly the work of experienced designers. The elevated cross, the Stonehenge area, the gimmicky mirrored arches near the main lift, and so on, all speak of mappers who know their stuff. And that includes the Helen Keller Demons, of course. ;D

If the blind demons aren't deliberate, it's the weirdest reject map error I've ever seen. :-)

Requiem is for both continuous and pistol start play. You can actually access the secret (once you know about it) before the demon fight - it opens when you are halfway up the path to them.

As far as gameplay difficulty goes, there was no mandate that the first two maps had to be this easy. The mappers just made them that way.

I may have played slightly ahead *cough*map12*cough* and I think most folk will find things pick up from map03.

Capellan said:

I think most folk will find things pick up from map03.

That's good news. Now we'll see how long it takes before I start whining that it's too hard. ;D

MAP02 Sacrificium

an apparent collab between Adelusion and Florian Helmberger. the former is one of two more famous authors here, while the other one I'm not too familiar with apart from MAP15 of Memento Mori. the map's really too short to comment on either of their design styles, other than "good". still, the demons at the stonehenge certainly are weird. the wiki article will probably tell more.

you guys don't mind if I linked that, do you?

http://www.twitch.tv/johnsuitepee/c/6018877 = part 1 of my playthrough, covering maps 01-15. (UV, continuous)

Like the two previous wads I've just been through (TVR & Perdition's Gate), so far Requiem has provided a similar kind of fast-paced and creative romp through its levels. A few lengthier levels mind, but nothing sloggy yet.

I particularly enjoy how each level doesn't stick to a theme/texture for too long before switching to something else; map 12 did this especially well considering it was meant to be a "military base"! The music throughout has also been quite good, and nice to see that the awesome Mark Klem is part of that.

There has been a few awkward uses of Barons in the levels so far, and a hint of cryptic puzzle awkwardness on map 15, but they have been my only slight nitpicks of criticism with Requiem thus far!

Everything else has been fun to play, and should this continue for the second half of the wad I may have to give this a perfect score to go alongside 'Going Down'....

(I'm particularly looking forward to Dario Casali's map 23; am half expecting some kind of early attempt at a slaughter map again for some reason)

MAP02: Sacrificium

Another short map, but with a bit more challenge. The pain elemental was a nasty surprise, and the red key area requires a bit of hasty reflexes to avoid falling or getting fireballed into the lava pit. The stone portals circled by pinky demons was a neat visual.

Suitepee said:

http://www.twitch.tv/johnsuitepee/c/6018877 = part 1 of my playthrough, covering maps 01-15. (UV, continuous)

Possibly someone corrected you about this already (I haven't watched the full thing), but TeamTNT did not make Requiem, Memento Mori, or Memento Mori 2.

Edit: yep, someone just pointed it out. Suggesting that it's the same team because Milo Casali has two levels in MM and one in Requiem (note that neither Casali is in MM2) is kinda like saying that Fargo and Armageddon are by the same people because Steve Buscemi is in both of them.

Edit2: just watched you play map11. I may have laughed evilly. I apologise for that :)

MAP02: Sacrificium - Anthony Czerwonka, Florian Helmberger
| Kills: 20/25 | Items: 1/1 | Secrets: 0/1 | Time: 01:37 | Deaths: 1 |

As a preceding note, both the Doom Wiki and Requiem's textfile say Helmberger, so I assume that's a mistake in the OP. Normally wouldn't bother mentioning it, but it is kinda funny that now everyone has spelt it that way :D

Yes folks, I died on MAP02. That's what happens when you combine virtually no health placement, with lost souls and an Eris.
Oh well. I think part of what makes that Pain Elemental particularly nasty is that you don't really have the right weapon for the job, and his elevation means you can't block the spawning by getting in his face, though presumably that is what happens with infinitely tall actors and hence vanilla behaviour.

I'd say the map is better designed than MAP01, taking particular note of the outdoor area, which looks pretty nice. Never activated the demons around the stone circle, so I'm guessing that's part of the secret.
What I find most odd about the map is that the map's only item - in terms of the intermission tally - was an armour bonus. One armour bonus. Not sure I understand what that's all about. I looked at the scene again just now and I can only conclude it's supposed to be the dead marine's helmet which he's still wearing. Oh 90's mapping :P

So yeah, nice enough map, for the little substance that it the map offers, but we're still early on, and I see MAP03 has nearly 200 monsters, so it'll be cool to play a more normal sized map, then I actually have stuff to talk about, rather than being all pedantic about use of decoration :D

5/10

MAP02: Sacrificium by Anthony Czerwonka (Adelusion) & Florian Helmberger

I know Adelusion has quite has quite the reputation as a mapper, but I don't think I've ever played any of his levels. Well, other than this one of course.

First off, a Cleimos II style level-to-level transition. I'm only noticing now how common those actually are. I like it.

I'm not sure what's up with those two doors on the side that lead to nothing, I guess it's for atmospheric build-up but it's kind of a waste of time. Also, the outdoors demon fight is insultingly easy, though I have to kick myself for not thinking to use the chainsaw and save up ammo, not that it caused any problems.

Things finally pick up with the first Imp trap, and being forced to fight a Pain Elemental with just the shotgun was actually pretty neat. Makes it feel like a mini-boss and somehow less irritating than when they're more easily disposed of.

A good second level, if a little short compared to the norm.

Map02 - “Sacrificium” by Anthony Czerwonka and Florian Helmerger
The visuals and atmosphere is pretty decent, the gameplay isn't so hot. A very easy map except for the pain elemental you need to kill with the boomstick. A reasonable map, mainly as it is so short.

MAP02: Sacrificium

Well, uh, this is interesting. It's another really short and easy map, no real threat of dying. I can only assume that the pinkies not being able to see you is intentional, heh.

MAP02: Sacrificium
100% kills, 1/1 secret

Weird little map. There's a lot of interesting stuff architecturally - the starting section of the map has some good design using different height levels, and there's some cool detailing on the door frames and the Stonehenge area. As others have said, though, gameplay is basically non-existent - purposely blind demons, and a silly Pain Elemental fight. The two doors at the start (that just open into little flesh-walled cubbyholes) are just baffling as well. The room with the red key is at strange angles, but I didn't realize this until looking at the minimap.

Hopefully things pick up from here.

Eris Falling said:

As a preceding note, both the Doom Wiki and Requiem's textfile say Helmberger, so I assume that's a mistake in the OP.

Darn, there's always bound to be one mistake somewhere in the OP ;_;

MAP02: Man, I loved the look and feel of this map but... it was over before I knew it! The PE fight on ZDoom is actually interesting because he can hover above you, thus nullifying the up-close-and-personal strategy normally used with PEs. Otherwise it was so short I dunno what else to comment on.

MAP03
If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on this being the level that made most players sit up and really take notice of Requiem. The dark metal tunnel section looks pretty gorgeous, and while the level is still quite linear (even having areas you can't return to, which always irks me), it has more nooks and crannies to poke around in, which helps, and a couple of double-backs to areas where new pathways have opened. There's much better flow as a result.

It also has that swinging door. Now THIS is an engine trick worth showing off, unlike the reject demons last map. And sensibly, Iikka doesn't overdo it. If only he'd shown similar restraint with the '3d bridge trick', later in the map set.

I'm surprised, looking at the map now, at how simple and square a lot of the architecture is after you leave the slime tunnels. The brick and cavern sections may be embellished with fake archways and that swinging door, but they also feature a lot of plain, orthogonal walls.

Gameplay steps up a notch in difficulty, though it's still all pretty manageable. Ammo conservation is the main challenge. It's also clear that Iikka's planned for pistol starters, a cultural shift from the pretty-much-wholly-continuous play assumption of Memento Mori.

Map02: Sacrificium

I thought this offered a bit more than map01, especially in aesthetics department. Small details are still plentiful but they're much more fitting I'd say. Stuff like the door frames and the inverted cross manage to look nice without interfering my gameplay experience. The Stonehenge is obviously a funny little gimmick and no less because of the friendly Pinkie demon cult that is gathered there. There is something rather specific in the starting room that I didn't appreciate though... I might be in the minority here but when I see plain metal bars sticking out of the ground like that, my intuition is to go find a switch that lowers them, NOT to go push them unless there's some sign that screams come press this. I was briefly stumped here since there is no switch to be found, and I actually vaguely remember having exactly the same problem when I played it the very first time. As for combat in this map, yeah it's nothing to speak of. Everything is a non-factor and my biggest issue was luring the two Pinkies out of the way so I could get the Shotty since I managed to wake them both up before grabbing the weapon.

Map03: Poison Processing

Now we're talking! This is a map I definitely remember, or at least parts of it. Probably because it's pretty awesome. Monster count increases almost tenfold and the map isn't a total pushover like the first two, partly due to the increased amount of cannon fodder and partly due to good use of damaging floors that chip away your health a tiny bit at a time ever so often. Action is pretty much constant from start to finish although the pace is still rather leisurely, but we're in map03 here so... Visually it's really neat, especially the sewers part. I really dig the color contrast of green and that dark grey texture, I must say. The we have that light brown Alien Vendetta -esque part (yes, I know AV came later but anyway) that is admittedly a bit monotonous due to relative lack of detail but still manages to look alright. Overall there's is distinctively less small stuff here compared to the first two but this map I think nails the overall visual theme, the big picture so to speak, better. And yeah, that swinging door - too awesome. Great level.

MAP03 Poison Processing

the first of Iikka's contributions, the other big star of Requiem. this is an interesting map, because just about every liquid floor is damaging, including the water at the start (freezing water). the map as a whole is pretty easy otherwise though. Iikka's most notable trick was that double door near the end that opens sideways. it's very cool. as far as the negatives go, the map can be tight at spots, and there is one rather dubious thing, which involves the weird scrolling portal in the blood channel. just approaching it causes imps to be teleported right there. seems pretty odd to me. other than that, good map, and good music track.

Map03 - “Poison Processing” by Iikka Keränen

The initial winter area was underdetailed and unappealing compared to the rest of the map, plus it had unexpected damaging water, where I lose 60% health. On the other hand, I actually liked the consequent nukage and bricky parts themselves (aside from being so linear). The map featured tons of filler non-challenging fights, mostly with pinky demons against the chainsaw - in addition, I forgot that I had the chainsaw and had been taking them down with a shotgun for some time. Typical oldschool usage of Cacodemons: Put them on the ground and never let them raise above it, just let them serve as a fat barrier weaker than a HK or Baron or even a Revenant. The map wasn't much challenging for most of the time, it was also pretty linear, but flowed okay. Damaging floors and minor hitscanner/imp spams succeeded to keep me on toes. The secret sector's placement was a little odd, the player wasn't assured to step there when getting the secret items. 2.5/5

Really like the sewer section of MAP03 with it's differing elevations and lines of sight.

MAP03: Poison Processing by Iikka Keränen

We begin in a very basic looking icy mountain valley. Once that's done, one fall through the secret hole and we find ourselves in a complex network of sewer installations.

Our gimmick of the day, ladies and gentlemen, is damaging floors! Honestly, I love the way those were implemented here. They complicate the player's life noticeably, but without ever ending up irritating or unfair. It's not often you see that.

Soon comes my first death, and having spent the previous two hours pistol starting the entire E1 of Hell Revealed (on HNTR), I decide there's no reason not to go for this one. Pistol start it is!

The stingy ammo placement makes it clear that use of that early Chainsaw is mandatory, and as such I would like to thank this level for reminding me that playing like a drooling moron will not be enough to make it through. Some habits are best lost.

As a matter of fact, this level offers plenty of occasions for your melee weapons (Chainsaw and Berserk) to shine. Demons and Spectres are ubiquitous, and some zombies early on are best dealt with the same way (now that's not common...). I also had the joy of chainsawing quite a few Cacos along the way, something I haven't done in a while.

My standout encounter would be the teleporting Caco/Demon assault near the end. I'm afraid I missed the door reveal that you people are talking about because I was too caught up in that skirmish.

As for the sewer itself, it looks very good and I think those contrasting liquids are a neat idea. The progression through this whole mess is very non-linear but not too confusing, which I love. However, I'm not sure I undertsand the point of those lowering bars connecting the final courtyard to the earlier parts of the level as they don't lead to anything (I scored a perfect).

The best level yet, much more involved than the previous two maps.

http://www.twitch.tv/johnsuitepee/c/6026465 = part 2 of my playthrough, covering both secret maps and maps 16-25. (UV, continuous)

Requiem begins to creep in some awkwardness, but I continue to enjoy it for the most part. Ammo seems to be not as regularly provided as I'd expect, and I've had a few chaingun/shotgun ammo problems in E3, but nothing too tight thus far.

The secret levels were alright.
Escape from Chaos is the first map I've found awkward in Requiem. Part of it reminded me of 'Rylayeh' by Psyren for some reason.
This was then followed up by Dens of "That Wall Is A Lift" Iniquity. Urgh.
I broke Base of Thorn's red key trap. A shame, I was looking forward to chaingunners everywhere depleting my health.
Den Of The Skull confused me for a while also.

Arachnophobia felt like a similar map to Town of the Dead for me, both being executed well. Loving those bridges.

I was looking forward to Dario Casali's final Doom map, and it proved to be.....interesting. On the one hand I liked the surprise IoS reveal (I don't like IoS fights, this was no exception but I'll admit I liked the surprise of the IoS being used pre map 30) and the carnage around the big sandy area, plus a cool use of the "ghost" monsters that should be used more often.
On the other hand, a somewhat cryptic switch in the initial sandy area that took me a bit to stumble upon despite an audio cue. I actually said "And this guy made Half-Life maps!" at one point in frustration after finding this out some minutes of searching the map for progression earlier. I found this annoyingly cryptic, DotW argued 90's mapping; you decide who was more right!

Map 24 was awesomely atmospheric. Kind of like the "Amnesia" of 1997. First time I've seen a Doom map set in some kind of medieval asylum/torture chamber. My second favourite of Requiem now!

Only 5 maps left to go now. The perfect score is gone for Requiem now, but I can hope it can end well for me....

Budoka said:
I'm not sure I undertsand the point of those lowering bars connecting the final courtyard to the earlier parts of the level as they don't lead to anything.

Possibly just for DM flow. Otherwise to make it easier to backtrack for any goodies you'd skipped.