1995 called. They want their Doom levels back.

22 minutes ago, Rainne said:

how monsters officially hear them

Oh. Yes. I know. My issue is with the sound actually cutting off for me. Like.. the problem is not that the monsters are (or aren't) waking up. They are. Like I want them to. But then there's just too much noise going on in game and some of the sounds (like opening doors) are not playing or not completely, at least.. even when I leave the area. That's the problem I'm having. The idle sound of those awakened.. awoken monsters seems to overwhelm the game.

25 minutes ago, Rainne said:

monsters will only wake up and come after you on sight but won't react to sound alone

That's valuable knowledge (which I already possess, though x3). They're alerted by sound but they won't move until they see you, basically.

3 minutes ago, wrkq said:

"when I wake up a monster closet they make a gigantic racket behind the wall which overflows the vanilla 8 channels, and I would like the player to not hear that"

Exactly ^^

I'm hoping that splitting the room into several smaller rooms, spread across the map.. and (as a last resort), reducing the actual number of monsters in that room / those rooms will solve the problem.

Ok, so.

I'm not really in position to read too thoroughly but as far as I can tell, whether a sound is actually heard by the player (as in, come out of their speakers/headphones), it depends only on the actual straight-line distance between sound source and player.

See S_AdjustSoundParams

https://github.com/id-Software/DOOM/blob/77735c3ff0772609e9c8d29e3ce2ab42ff54d20b/linuxdoom-1.10/s_sound.c#L753

called from S_StartSoundAtVolume here

https://github.com/id-Software/DOOM/blob/77735c3ff0772609e9c8d29e3ce2ab42ff54d20b/linuxdoom-1.10/s_sound.c#L304

As you read through S_AdjustSoundParams note that there are multiple checks for gamemap 8 in it.

The OG Doom approach was that map 8 being a small final boss map, all sounds should be always heard. As a bug, this behavior remains even in doom2 mode.

More info here.

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Sound_effects_behave_differently_on_level_8

So uh, if this monster closet is on E1M8, we probably can't do a thing in vanilla.

Might need to replan the trap so monsters are woken up only later somehow - just before the trap is sprung.

One way to do that is to have a shootable switch as the only way to progress.

In other maps, you just need to put the "storage room" far away enough from the playable area of the map.

Which of course works only if it's a teleport trap and not a "wall opens" type trap...

26 minutes ago, wrkq said:

if this monster closet is on E1M8

You know what, that is probably precisely the reason.

26 minutes ago, wrkq said:

just before the trap is sprung

That will have to be the solution, then. So that their gargling and moaning doesn't clog up the ambiance.

I'll just move the whole room closer to when & where the monsters are.. dispensed ^^;

9 minutes ago, Zylinderkatze said:

monsters are.. dispensed ^^;

Insert coin, receive demons...

On 10/25/2020 at 2:12 PM, Zylinderkatze said:

Another example of "overdoing it"

 

Adding height steps and aligning textures of an area no one will ever see.

 

^{I couldn't not align this, though. I would know it's there.}

 

You can rest assured when you play this level, that even unseen areas are appropriately aligned :3

I feel attacked

That's just a wee bit too much ammo~

^{About to leave the map at this point- no place left to spend all of this lethal curreny.}

This is the tally if you find all the secrets and don't run into too many traps. I'll do another run without any of the secrets, then check if that has enough health and ammo.. then make sure that the bonus areas don't actually shower you with ammo and "health+" like they currently still do.

Some more balancing necessary.

But the game can be finished. That's a relief.

Uhmm..

^{That's not enough health.}

I died again ^^;

^{Almost the same spot, too.}

Maybe less Sergeants?

It is done.

^{A lot of bullets, yes. But I didn't "find" the Chain Gun.. so.. they'd have been a last resort.}

Maybe I could dispose of a few more rockets- but that would just be mean at this point. You kind of need them.

Also, I only very narrowly and luckily escaped death at one point and dqd'd myself at 6% of health.. so the 112% isn't all skill.

I think I'll wrap it up (after one more test).. who's ready?

The grand finale.

Here it is. The final level of my episode. What a journey.

However, not the last level of the episode. E1M9 is still waiting to be reimagined!

But this is not about what will be- this is about what is. And this is what.. is. I mean.. it's.. is.. it.. is?

Just download the damn thing already:

M8-compare.zip

What can you expect? I'm glad you asked!

We went from this:

^{1997 version (can be found at E2M8)}

To this:

^{2020 version (brand new!) for your convenience, at E1M8.}

Not much has changed? Well.. yes. That's kind of true. The map was already perf~.. nah. Who am I kidding. Not you. There was a lot of unaligned and under-detailed stuff going on. That has been remedied. 

You want proof? Sure!

^{There's base stuff! This is lit!}

^{An amalgamation of styles. Moody. Not cozy.}

^{Stair stuff. That's what I look like when I have to take the stairs, too.}

^{Techy tech with blue and gray. Also, ceiling lamps.}

^{..and whatever this is >_>}

Are you excited? I'm excited. But also tired. And it's already 11:55pm! Oh no!

See you tomorrow!

14 hours ago, HQDefault said:

 

I feel attacked

You spelled "attracted" wrong xD

I suppose you do this too, then? 

In that case you spelled "attractive" wrong :3

[[END OF E1M8]] (for now)

8<--------------------------------------- cut here

[[BEGINNING OF E1M9]]

I'm feeling a bit queasy today- maybe I ate something wrong.

Nevertheless, here's a first look at E1M9. The map, at least:

^{So much to do..}

That large area on the right is what I had originally already changed (a lot) before my PC crashed 10 years ago. I'm a bit worried whether I'll be able to remember what all I had done to fix it, 10 years ago.. but perhaps "trying to remember" will end up yielding better results than what the original "trying to fix it" did, back then.

Want to get an in-editor first look? Here you go:

^{A lot of room. How nice. Sadly, also a lot of hitscanning enemies }:3}

This is the starting area (after the teleporter room in which you arrive). From here, you kind of make your way through NUKE channels (everyone's favourite!).. but don't worry, there's rad suits. Your goal / target is a giant transmitter tower (I think the map overview kind of gives away what I mean by "giant").

It's overall a good map- the beginning is actually fun.. but if you look at the map, everything right / east of the lopsided boomerang shape (before it opens up into the giant round area) used to be very different after the 2010 changes (which I lost) so.. at least half of the level will need to be "re-changed". Yay?

I'll get there.

Alotted time: 1 month. So that I'll have another month left to weld it all together into the final thing.

Wish me luck!

^h h H H

All in all: "meh".

So I test-played E1M9 "through".

The passages at the beginning with the occasional NUKE floor are okay but it's not all that obvious that some of them are interconnected. I'll want to make that more apparent, with more "oh look, there's bonus X on that ledge, I wonder if I can get up there somehow" moments.

Then there's also just a bunch of hitscanners in many passages that are just unfair and, at times, worse, cannon-foddery. The architecture doesn't offer much room to outmaneuver or defeat them with strategy or skill. It's the very same-y "open door, shoot guys, rinse, repeat".

And the giant area at the end is.. too giant. That's something I had already fixed 10 years ago but.. I tihnk I mentined that often enough now xD There's too much empty space (again, with hitscanners) and not enough scenery to excuse the size. In the "fixed" 2010 version, the "tower" ended up less of a tower and more.. "nested into a mountainside". I'll see if I can recreate what I had originally done. Only.. better! ^^;

At the end (after you fulfil the objective) you just head back through part of the level (basically you leave the tower again because there's nothing else there.. and then there's a new passage).. but "having to head back" is not all that apparent, either. There's some more fixing to do there, possibly.

I remember that in the 2010 version there was a whole new area on the way to the tower with SP_HOT1 walls and some mean little traps (like an obviously broken teleporter that would send you into a ragdoll instakill.. or whatever the cool kids call it these days xD) ..and neat little effects (like a press-triggered cascade of barrel explosions when you approach the area, which would "explain" why stuff in that part of the level is broken). Not sure if I can (..or should (..or will)) try to recreate that.. it was rather neat but it might just feel like a copy now, because it kind of developed organically back then.

I think -contrary to my usual approach- first I will focus on fixing the area at the end- it has the most room (and reason) for improvement ^^

Glad to see this has reached M9! Can't wait to play the entire project (both 1997 and 2020) compiled under one wad.

oh, my! left you for a week or so, and missed a new map! i definitely should try this trick again: a week off the DW, and boom! a new map here.

p.s.: "I'm feeling a bit queasy today- maybe I ate something wrong." -- just make sure didin't swallowed a fly. we all know how it ends...

2 hours ago, ketmar said:

oh, my! left you for a week or so, and missed a new map! i definitely should try this trick again: a week off the DW, and boom! a new map here.

 

p.s.: "I'm feeling a bit queasy today- maybe I ate something wrong." -- just make sure didin't swallowed a fly. we all know how it ends...

I appreciate your confidence in my skill / speed and the interconnectedness and influence of your online time on my output xD

I can't guarantee that it'll happen again ^^;

Especially because I kind of fell prey to trying out Watch Dogs Legion.. I haven't really done much in the level yet.. but I am going to actually start working on it tomorrow. I think. I hope. We'll see xD

"I really should get to pondering planning to think about to consider the possibility of maybe working on this in the future, eventually." -- my brain

When Doom II map

17 hours ago, InDOOMnesia said:

Glad to see this has reached M9! Can't wait to play the entire project (both 1997 and 2020) compiled under one wad.

Yes! I'm excited too. I am currently considering actually making it two WADs.. even if that goes against my willingness & desire to make it convenient to compare and play the levels "side by side".. because back in 199X I had also replaced the TITLEPIC (I might tease it here, closer to the release, because it's kinda.. adorable) as well as M_DOOM, M_SKULL1 & 2, M_EP1, WIMAP0, ..etc etc etc.

All of those should be conserved, I think, but many are pretty strongly tied to the "original" state of the 199X levels.. and since I am kind of favoring the renewed version (putting it in episode 1 and all), a lot of those graphics should be adjusted. Of course many of them could also just be moved to episode 2- but not TITLEPIC, for example.

So I'll either make new graphics for all of them (if I keep the "E1 = new, E2 = old" concept) or I'll publish two "E1"s, so the original 199X flavor can be maintained.

Or I'll just publish the planned "E1 + E2 neo-retro" (with old and new, as described above, with all new images for TITLEPIC et al) and then just publish the original oldschool version of the levels as a standalone "as is" episode, complete with the original batchfile installer xD

We'll see how much time I have left, when E1M9 is done.

23 hours ago, Zylinderkatze said:

Or I'll just publish the planned "E1 + E2 neo-retro" (with old and new, as described above, with all new images for TITLEPIC et al) and then just publish the original oldschool version of the levels as a standalone "as is" episode, complete with the original batchfile installer xD

looks like a perfect solution for me. of course, it is mostly because it's not me who should create two wads instead of one.

I'd love to watch Youtube playthroughs comparing each level. Recently started watching old Doom videos was wast struck by pangs of nostalgia for Requiem, Memento Mori and Hell Revealed type maps.

38 minutes ago, ketmar said:

mostly because it's not me

Haha.. well the "oldschool version + installer" already exists; That's what was on the 3,5" disk I found in the cellar. I'm just wondering whether I should publish that version at all. It's kind of.. cringy. I mean- it's a 90's Doom WAD from a "meh-ishly" skilled teenage mapper, after all.

I'll decide that once I'm closer to being done :)

32 minutes ago, MajorRawne said:

I'd love to watch Youtube playthroughs comparing each level. Recently started watching old Doom videos was wast struck by pangs of nostalgia for Requiem, Memento Mori and Hell Revealed type maps.

Me too! I mean.. by others. Especially because I would like to see someone play it who isn't the person who made the levels ^^;

But perhaps I'll make a "playthrough with developer commentary" at some point.

If I still need bonus material for the.. BluRay.?

On 11/1/2020 at 5:43 PM, Maghster said:

When Doom II map

Once the whole thing is done, I will (probably) make an updated, "limit-removing" version of the WAD with more details- and I might make it a "DOOM II version", for more enemy variety (and the super shotgun).. But that will not happen this year anymore. 

You will have to wait until 2021. Sorry ^^;

3 minutes ago, Zylinderkatze said:

 

Haha.. well the "oldschool version + installer" already exists; That's what was on the 3,5" disk I found in the cellar. I'm just wondering whether I should publish that version at all. It's kind of.. cringy. I mean- it's a 90's Doom WAD from a "meh-ishly" skilled teenage mapper, after all.

 

I'll decide that once I'm closer to being done :)

Why not publish it? You can't get more authentic old-school than that!

On 10/30/2020 at 10:13 PM, wrkq said:

^h h H H

Just so you know where to land your ^h h H Helicopter xD

Wait wait wait..

"I thought you said you weren't sure whether you'd include the SP_HOT1.. but this definitely looks like SP_HOT1".

^{So red. so.. stony.?}

I suppose that when I started to strip down the outside area, it came back to me, the way this area was laid out in the 2010 attempt of redemption.. it's weird how the mind works. I know now that towards the back (where the old SP_ROCK1 still lingers around) I had added a raised platform that also had a way to walk around it and get on top of it. And more to the right (of this very very early and very crude approximation of what this will look like), there was a passage leading into the red stone structure with all of its secrets and traps.

It's kind of all slowly coming back to me, even though the last time I worked on it was 10 years ago.

It's a little eerie.

But also kind of exciting :3

30 minutes ago, Zylinderkatze said:

Wait wait wait..

 

"I thought you said you weren't sure whether you'd include the SP_HOT1.. but this definitely looks like SP_HOT1".

 

^{So red. so.. stony.?}

 

I suppose that when I started to strip down the outside area, it came back to me, the way this area was laid out in the 2010 attempt of redemption.. it's weird how the mind works. I know now that towards the back (where the old SP_ROCK1 still lingers around) I had added a raised platform that also had a way to walk around it and get on top of it. And more to the right (of this very very early and very crude approximation of what this will look like), there was a passage leading into the red stone structure with all of its secrets and traps.

 

It's kind of all slowly coming back to me, even though the last time I worked on it was 10 years ago.

 

It's a little eerie.

 

But also kind of exciting :3

I have a weird like for the texture