1995 called. They want their Doom levels back.

Aha! Yeah I highly doubted that I was the first to realize or notice this but I thought maybe my torment might save someone else theirs ^^; Thanks, @wrkq!

Also, reading those posts you shared, regarding sectors changing heights unexpectedly (or not changing them as expected), I seem to have had a bug before in a different map where a sector (not joined to anything else, mind you) would not lower to the lowest adjacent floor, if both of those sectors had their floor under a certain value. At the time I just worked around that instead though (and used a different action).. so I never spent much time on finding out what exactly  the reason for that was.

It was weird when it happened but it also didn't really surprise me because I was used to engine quirks by that point xD

I'll try to find which combination of things led to it, once I'm done with this project ^^ Maybe we can get to the root of that as well.

Again, thanks for shedding some light! c:

After a lot more back and forth than I'd like to admit..

I give you: A version of the outside which I am satisfied with, for now. Satisfied-ish.

^{Very simplistic. Also, very round.}

I have an idea for some playful death to be sprung upon you as you make your way to here (if you do come up here through the "H"-area).. but that's not integrated yet. I'll leave that for last, because it's not crucial. Just.. fun ^^;

The reason why I'd like to add it for "fun" is because there was something similar on the inside of the building before, when it was still bigger and bulkier, in 199X.

We'll see xD

Some more detailing on the way.

I am just tying up loose ends at this point and see if I can "feel out" ways to make the whole thing more organic and "flowy". I will have to see how things actually work together when I play test this thing some more but I'm on a good way, I think. 

^{Shortly after the last post, I added a.. mini-moat?}

^{Also, there is now a "road" to lead you from the lift to the entrance.}

Still a bunch of stuff to do.. also, a bit of a Visplane headache on the inside now.

^{140/128. In one spot it even went up to 150 T_T}

This kind of came out of nowhere. I assume it has to do with the added detail outside.. if you "triangulate" the lines of that bright white area in the lower left, they seem to lead up towards the upper right (where the door to the outside is).

I suppose this has to do with some default behavior of calculating visible floors / ceilings? Because that door is never really open at the same time as the player standing in the lower left. Unless in multiplayer, I suppose ^^;;

I guess I need to block some sight lines around the right side of the level.

:mumbles incoherently:

Back to the drawing board!

"Embrace the change"

..I guess?

So.. once I had fully accepted that I'd have to make a bunch of changes to the inside in order to be a little more on the safe side with Visplanes, things just fell into place. It's still a bit borderline-y (see below) but I think I've got it down to a managable density.

^{That one pesky "129/128" spot. smh.}

Although, to be fair, it seems that Vanilla (or "Chocolate RL", more precisely, in my case) already bugs out at 128/128 sometimes. Which doesn't make this any easier ¬_¬

However.. now that the left side of the map is blocked off, I could get a bit creative with slightly more interesting scenery!

^{Not done. Not really. But Good enough for now ^^}

This is the same scene from way earlier (Tuesday) again, only now it's closed off and only accessible through two passageways.

I like where this is going.

Also, I like where I am going.

To bed!

Goodnight :)

This is an honorable establishgment! Take your fight outside!

Okay.. so.. I'm finishing up the outside area now. No VisPlane problems out there. Whee!

Oh.. what.. no.. don't switch to DrawSegs!

^{Yeah.. so.. about that.. ^^;}

That's already the "fixed" version.. I stretched the whole thing out sideways so you wouldn't be able to look too far around the building and I am currently building a tunnel through a mountain to further block sight lines.

Thankfully, that "super hot" area is a raised platform that you were never supposed to get to anyways ^^

Sadly, however, I won't be able to put as much detail into the mountain as I wish I could've.

This is what the entrance to that tunnel looks like:

^{The tunnel itself won't be as detailed as I'd like, either :(}

But at least the area seems to be safe now.

Oh and I also had to replace a ladder with a lift to save sectors in one spot.

If I do run into limits again I'll try and see if I can reduce the sector (height) variety a bit by merging / removing some sectors again.

Hey, but at least no VisPlane problems out here xD

What did you do today?

Here's what I did:

^{That doesn't look like much. But it is ^^;}

That thing in the middle (at the top) is the tunnel I mentioned in my last post.. the thing off towards the right is just scenery.. but nice scenery ^^ ..and the thing that winds down around the lower right of the round structure is just leading to a bonus area.

The bonus area isn't really necessary (as the name already implies ^^) but I feel like the ouside of the structure would otherwise be too.. small? You used to be able to run almost around the whole thing, back in 199X and as it stands right now you can only walk around 2/5 of it (as seen above). On the other hand I don't want to "waste" too much more time.. or make the level too much bigger. 

I think it's already my biggest map as it is.

Tsk tsk.

Oh- here's another screenshot from when you leave the tunnel!

^{..and that's already the entrance, off to the right in the back.}

One thing that's kind of getting neglected (mostly because of the Vanilla limits) is floor height variety. As in.. the floor you actually walk on (not the hills around the side. Those obviously have height variety) xD

I guess that'll be something for a limit-removing version.

For now, let's see how much longer I can work on this today before I lose inspiration. Right now it's still burning x3

Let us hope your inspiration never burns out.

Keep up the awesome work Zylinderkatze.

19 hours ago, Adamast0r said:

Keep up the awesome work Zylinderkatze.

Thank you! I'll do my best.

I am now actually going back from the final area towards the earlier parts to see if there's anything I missed.

Meaning:

1. I am done with the final area, or
2. I am tired of working on the final area, or
3. I want to make sure that I didn't miss anything, or
4. All of the above.

Or maybe none of the above xD

Truth is, I know that there are bits and pieces that I had previously skipped because I wanted to focus on the "big work" (i.e. the final structure).

I went back now and did stuff like adding detail to a passage leading to a bonus:

 > 

Maybe in a way also a sign of things to come in a limit-removing version xD

Also, while I am sharing pictures.. a general question (to anyone who has an opinion on it ^^)

Do you think this is a little too well-hidden for a switch?

c

^{Hint: It's just the slider on the side}

Usually, when I "have to ask", the answer is basically already clear (in this case "yes"). I will likely make it more obvious- because it's a switch that opens one of the two possible paths.. meaning you need to find this. Well.. 50% need to find this xD

Also: The map is now 2 MB in size. I really need to stop making it bigger xD

59 minutes ago, Zylinderkatze said:

^{Hint: It's just the slider on the side}

I've actually seen a couple of maps doing that exact trick with this switch texture for secrets. Often trimming it even further than you did here.

I'd say it's a pretty good one because it requires a keen eye but also it's familiar sight if you do spot it.

Others might say that the familiarity makes the secret not hidden enough. Personally I like it.

7 hours ago, Zylinderkatze said:

Do you think this is a little too well-hidden for a switch?

yes and no. ;-) it's easy to spot when you know it is there, but usually doom maps doesn't use such switches. i mean, i like it, but if it is needed for progression or something, it is better to put some blinking lights there, for example.

You have to "make" the player use a switch like that earlier in the map/episode in a straightforward fashion so they learn it is a switch.

@wrkq, @ketmar and @VGA.. that's a nice summary of my thoughts, actually. The manifestation of the voices in my head xD

Making it "more obvious but not too obvious" might be done with one of my (by now, in this episode) pretty notoriou~ ..common "blinking screens = secret switches" things. Or maybe I'll just plainly put an actual switch there.

I think the other path (going through the tower and coming out inside the tower instead of outside) is more winding, more.. secret. You will have to manage and find and then also hit a shootable switch on that route so.. I think I should save the switch hiding for a different time.

This.. currently possibly too well disguised switch.. is the more "straightforward", brute force path, after all ^^;

1 hour ago, Zylinderkatze said:

This.. currently possibly too well disguised switch.. is the more "straightforward", brute force path, after all ^^; 

... yyyyeah for a "mandatory progression" switch it's probably not the best choice.

Good trick to keep in the spellbook for other occasions though.

2 hours ago, Zylinderkatze said:

Or maybe I'll just plainly put an actual switch there.

this may be good gameplay-wise, but that microwave heater (althrough with a vertical control) looks really great. i think it's fine to have it here, because... because why not? will be a fun joke to hide the switch that opens easier path in the plain sight.

1 hour ago, wrkq said:

 

... yyyyeah for a "mandatory progression" switch it's probably not the best choice.

Good trick to keep in the spellbook for other occasions though.

Not mandatory mandatory. It's one of two possible routes.. but it should be the more obvious one.

So I changed it to this!

^{I think I accidentially gave the button abs.}

It'll be something like this when it's done. If the player doesn't find it now, I can't help them xD

The button is also not for that door in the same picture. Because in that case I would've just left the old version and relied in them trying the "console looking thing" next to the closed door. It's instead for a door some ways away. So that's the main reason why I want a real button ^^;

18 minutes ago, Zylinderkatze said:

The button is also not for that door in the same picture.

now that's cruel. you won't sell many copies if you'll force players to think!

I made it to the top!

^{Took the rough approach. Behind this door is more roughness :c}

There's too much ammo / not enough ammo sponges.

Also, maybe not enough health- or maybe I just suck xD

Saw a HOM as though a texture was missing.. but it's an impassable, one-sided line with only one texture on it. It might be from a pedestal in front of it. I had already removed the same problem in that spot but it looks like it returned. Maybe Vanilla is just running out of resources xD

But yes. I am test-tplaying the map.

Also, I am a bit too generous with the Chaingun. I think there's now 3 places where you can find it.. but it is a big level, after all.

Also, I passed by the Rocket Launcher and the Plasma Gun even though I did "unlock" them.. because I didn't want to go into the Nuke Tunnels™

But I'm trailing off. What I meant to say is.. up to this point it's playable. Let's see how I'm faring for the rest.

Oh.. almost time for bed! xD

Status update!

Do you get a lot of ammo before you reach the tower? Yes.

Do you have to use it all up when you get there?

^{Also yes.}

I am in the final stages of testing the playability / "finishability" and finding any potential deadlocks.

This map will be done today. But I might not publish it today.

"We'll see" ^^;

3 minutes ago, Zylinderkatze said:

^{Also yes.}

3 hours ago, wrkq said:

Spoiler

 

 

This is the kind of positivity we need!

Speaking of positivity..

Time for dessert!

With only a week delay (ahem), here it is: The bonus map!

Exclamation Mark.

Sadly, the Doomworld forum post editor just reloaded and lost the whole text I had written up.. and the "backup" it saved was my last forum post and not the current one, weirdly enough. But whatever. I'll just write it all again- that's dedication!

Speaking of dedication, this map is the largest one yet. It was already big in 1997 but then underwent a massive remodeling in 2010. And even though I lost all that progress from 2010, I was able to remember (or re-imagine) most of it and put it into this beast of a map.

Enough talk, though! Here is the download:

M9-compare.zip

Following tradition, next up is the first look at both versions ^^

The past was brown..?

^{Not very consoling (1997 version: E2M9)}

The future is.. Futuristic!

^{More silver, more fun? (2020 version: E1M9)}

This is actually already a good example of what I did (with the parts of the level that I left intact): I made them a little more "visually interesting" (less.. monotone, at least) and made sure that interactive elements are.. "obvious enough". That being said, I might make that switch wall a little less.. silver. Especially because in the "objective room" towards the end, you have to "use" a computer wall and not an actual switch.. I might as well teach that early.

Would you mind some more images?

 
^{There's cobblestone courtyards..}

 
^{..Nuke Tunnels™..}

 
^{..Connecting passages?..}

 
^{..very reliable-looking teleporters (maybe don't use it)..}

 
^{..a big, round, brown building..?}

..and so much more!

(Seriously, though. This is the bonus level, after all xD)

You will just have to find out for yourself!

Go go go!

Have fun :3

and i just implemented proof-of-concept shadowmapping. and it absolutely doesn't matter, because vanilla maps do not have many dynamic light soruces. sigh.

anyway, thank you! i hope to play this soon... maybe even sooner than you will release the whole wad.

*pops open the champagne, pours*

Cheers, ZK! It's a fantastic occasion to celebrate!

5 minutes ago, ketmar said:

maybe even sooner than you will release the whole wad.

You have.. about 3 weeks! Seeing how I'm "hell-bent" on publishing the final WAD in 2020 still.. I don't really have much time left to rest xD

3 minutes ago, wrkq said:

*pops open the champagne, pours*

Cheers, ZK! It's a fantastic occasion to celebrate!

Whee! Cheers :D Thank you~

It's not the end, of course. I still need to go back in and make a full episode wad from this.. balance out item placement, polish away some last kinks.. make sure the maps all have the right names in game, etc etc.

But yes, I am rather pleased to be done with the base maps, for now c:

Shh. Tuning later, celebration now. :)

You're done!

Maybe not done-done, but singular done indeed! :p

oh, and yeah, congrats! i somehow missed that it's M9.

i hope that in the new year you will start another dev thread like this. this is prolly the only "dev blog" i'm reading not only to watch progress, but also because i simply love to read it. ;-)

8 hours ago, wrkq said:

Shh. Tuning later, celebration now. :)

You're done!

Maybe not done-done, but singular done indeed! :p

Agreed. It's not running away and this is definitely a milestone.

Although of course I am already thinking about little things I might change about E1M9 in the "final pass" I'm giving ebery map, starting today ^^;

Also, of course I already started with the "final pass" phase yesterday and put all new maps into one wad.. and then started adjusting the "shown on map" flags for the automap view of E1M1.. no rest for the wicked xD

But today is a workday (the first of the last three for me this year) so the rest will have to wait until later today.

i cant wait to get my hands on a full version of this, ive been wanting a concept like this for months!

7 hours ago, ketmar said:

oh, and yeah, congrats! i somehow missed that it's M9.

 

i hope that in the new year you will start another dev thread like this. this is prolly the only "dev blog" i'm reading not only to watch progress, but also because i simply love to read it. ;-)

Thank you, @ketmar :) 

There's.. two personal reasons that might lead to another thread.. and many many slightly less "me-centric" ones ^^

The personal reasons are..

1. "The future of this project": going "limit removing" or maybe porting it to Doom 2 (or both).. and
2. "Episode 2": I already had a E1M2 done, which thankfully survived the crash of 2010.. and 1/5th of the final stage (which was lost but lives on in my mind)

The less personal reasons are.. well- just continuing to participate in the forums.. maybe get a little more involved with other people's projects if they are looking for support, maybe mapping contests.. but I guess that wouldn't be as much of a dev blog.. so I better get on those other two things xD

Probably a healthy mix of both ^^