"New year, new URE" - URE:E2 - E2M2 up!

On 6/3/2021 at 2:23 AM, Zylinderkatze said:

A Gateway shortly before the exit:

looks like a painting i can put on a wall. ;-)

On 6/4/2021 at 3:07 PM, Zylinderkatze said:

I understand (or think I do) that the BSP building process is partially affected by the 128 x 128 grid? Or am I making this up?

no. the grid is used for collision detection, and it is independed of BSP. what does matter is how BSP does splits (due to using fixed point math). yet different node builders do splits in different ways. afair, the best vanilla builder currenly is ZokumBSP, it knows alot of tricks and is using them to minimise slime trails and other annoying glitches.

On 6/4/2021 at 3:07 PM, Zylinderkatze said:

when the map is divided up (into the tree "branches")- it is paramount to split them in such a way to avoid concave shapes. Basically "convex shapes only, plz".

actually, it's even funnier for vanilla BSP: the only requirement is to not have two segs overlapping each other. i.e. it doesn't even have to be a closed contour. that's why we need a separate BSP for OpenGL rendering, btw: floors and ceilings should be valid concave convex polygons.

On 6/4/2021 at 3:07 PM, Zylinderkatze said:

Do you go out of your way to build "BSP-friendly" and avoid sectors that will have to be broken down?

it's quite hard to predict, especially considering the different algorithms used in different builders. even convex sectors could be split sometimes, especially if a builder tries to build more balanced tree. i believe that people just sticking to the usual rules of "don't make too long lines" and such.

so, your best bet is prolly draw as you want to, and then test alot, splitting long linedefs manually if they're "wiggling", or moving vertices very slightly to try to fight slime trails. or just accept that if id themselves allowed bugs in their maps, then you can get away with some bugs too. ;-)

8 hours ago, ketmar said:

looks like a painting i can put on a wall. ;-)

Thanks ^^;; ..no I just need to make sure that my enemy placement creates encounters that are equally pleasing.

8 hours ago, ketmar said:

the grid is used for collision detection, and it is independed of BSP

Much appreciated! You eliminated one of the many "this or that I'm not sure" loops in my head xD

8 hours ago, ketmar said:

ZokumBSP

I'm currently using Zennode- I saw that Zokum is based on it? I'll check their site on how to integrate it witrh UDB and give it a whirl :) 

8 hours ago, ketmar said:

it doesn't even have to be a closed contour

I always find it interesting to see what kind of shortcuts or other code quirks exist in code by people who are more skilled, involved, focused or.. eclectic than I, when it comes to coding. I mean- I've been a programmer for years but since i do it for a job, I use my spare time for stuff that are more on the creative side. Not that programming isn't creative ^^;

I really appreciate your input / explanation!

34 minutes ago, Zylinderkatze said:

I'm currently using Zennode- I saw that Zokum is based on it?

i think so. but Zokum did alot of their own research, so i'm not sure how much of Zen code actually left there.

34 minutes ago, Zylinderkatze said:

I really appreciate your input / explanation!

thank you! just if you want some more useless info...

On 6/4/2021 at 8:37 AM, Zylinderkatze said:

I didn't feel like taking any progress images anymore.. I'll do that later

I think I forgot to post images after all xD

Not really "progress" as much as "standing right in the projected hot spot with no actual HOM".

I know, in this case, that this area used to be "clean" (with no heat bleed" into the player-accessible space). I didn't add any sectors, I didn't even move any vertices.. and now it looks like this:

^{Better switch on the AC.}

But when I stay in that spot (and just the general area) and look around, it seems fine:

^{A little to far up in this screenshot but I did try the whole area.}

Only thing I didn't do was to activate / turn the turret.

I'll try that later during my 100% runs but I still have some detailing to do ^^;

Either way, this "new heat" is confusing me a bit.

Does this calculation get influenced by the size of the map? I added architecture / details elsewhere.. are there any limits that I'm unaware of?

Hmmm..

Just trying out stuff ^^;

^{There's another idea besides this one. Not sure yet.}

Okay~

That's enough pixel pushing for one day!

^{Haven't checked it in game yet. GRAYPOIS is fickle in Vanilla.}

Too late now! Time for bed xD

Goodnight all!

10 hours ago, Zylinderkatze said:

Does this calculation get influenced by the size of the map? I added architecture / details elsewhere.. are there any limits that I'm unaware of?

i'm pretty sure that the calculations are not exact. i have to look at the code to be sure, but i believe that there are some estimations and "corner cuts", so the result may fluctuate a little even with seemingly unrelated changes.

10 hours ago, ketmar said:

the calculations are not exact

Yeah I suppose (and I've been told on one of my threads here before, even) that it's really just a rough kind of "early warning system" and that it can help pinpoint areas that require some improvements / streamlining to remain Vanilla safe. 

I found another spot on the map where it warns me about sight lines but there's a double door system between those two areas and you can't really look all the way through both adjacent rooms.. unless you maybe play multiplayer, one player opens the door and the other stays behind.. that other player might then be able to get the HOM.

Speaking of early warning system..

Here's a look at the "improved?" exit area:

^{Is that switch related to that seemingly blocked off thing on the right?}

Somehow the area on the left (the one with the grey walls) still feels a bit bland. But This is actually one of the areas that are threatening to become too complex.. for.. reasons >_>

I did some more test runs of the map.. a bunch of encounters are a bit bland still but overall the interactive elements all seem to work as planned.

I'll do a few more 100% runs and check if I can find any bugs.

Anyone interested in ann "old vs new" WAD (e.g. e1m1 = old, e2m1 = new)?

Testing, testing, 1 2 3

This was a fun, hectic, (almost?) unfair slaughter fest!

Sadly, Vanilla caught some of the flak, it seems.. and is bleeding from the left arm:

^{I'm healthy but only because I iddqd'd at 2% health at one point ^^;;}

I wasn't ready. Vanilla, sadly, wasn't ready either.

I'll check out the culprit and try to reduce what and where I can.

Also..

..I just got surprised by my own trap in the final room (from this post).

That's just as shameful as using iddqd xD

Real life is mocking me

This triggered me (just a little):

^{City planning should really align their textures better.}

Rip and tear (😥)

Oh no. He's using emojis. Somebody stop him!

^{Don't worry, it's only for the "tear" pun. I'll stop before I even really started ^^;}

"You think I can add a bit of detail to the other side of the crashed ship?"

^{"Sure, I gues~.. wait did you model out a torn off VTOL engine?"}

"Yeah.. but.. I guess I should reduce the fidelity a bit"

^{Juuuust a bit.} 

Maybe I shouldn't have modeled out the individual turbine blades xD

Before I reduce it all down to Vanilla-managable levels, here's one last look at a different angle and with a slightly higher light level:

^{Goodbye, double turbine!}

Oh.. and good night, Doomworld. I'm off to bed for today.

This is, by the way, the last area I am doing anything major in. Everything else works as intended!

35 minutes ago, Zylinderkatze said:

^{"Sure, I gues~.. wait did you model out a torn off VTOL engine?"}

Zylinderkatze, you are a true artist xD

This has to be one of the most satisfying examples of Doomcute I've ever seen. Also, damn, that crashed spaceship looks good. I'll admit I was a tad skeptical about the idea when you first started, but now I'm totally sold. If you ever get a custom title, it had better be 'Sector Wizard' or something to that effect.

8 hours ago, Omniarch said:

that crashed spaceship looks good

It did turn out pretty good, all things (like Vanilla compatibility, mostly) considered. I did have to cut more corners than I would've liked.. it's not as "destroyed" as I wanted it to be but maybe that just means it's VERY sturdy. I suppose it has to be if the player survived a crash into a building >_>

Also, thank you for all the praise x3

I even managed to make that optional room from the last post to have a managable heat level, after a bit more work and pusing around (and, mostly, removing) some details.

9 hours ago, Zylinderkatze said:

good night, Doomworld. I'm off to bed for today.

"And then I spent another hour on modeling out a secret area.. even though it was already 1am." The ongoing theme xD

I hope the thing will look enough like "a broken off piece of the ship", in-game. Looking back at it now it kinda looks like an air conditioning unit or something.

...

Look at me worrying about stuff like that, while everyone else will just say "why are there so few enemies in these maps? I want to kill demons! >_<"

Time for bed!

But not before I give you a last update for the day.

The crashed ship is now done. Both sides (the side of the starting location and the "secret" side).

I managed to "99.79%" fix the HOM / Drawsegs problem of the big fighting area from this post.

Now one last question remains that I'll ponder until tomorrow..

Stick with water?

^{That's what it was in 2010. Some Oldschool vibe?}

Or switch to blood?

^{The area from which you get here has a bunch of blood after all..}

..however, if I switch to blood, I would kind of want to use a texture that has some form of "blood edge". Something that's not necessary with water. And complicated because some walls are taller than 128 units and I have no resource reserves left in this area for adding more sectors.

Hmm.

I'm leaning towards water. Figuratively. Don't worry xD

We'll see tomorrow.

But yeah! Some more balancing after playtesting and I'm finally done with E2M1!

That 2021 release window isn't looking as big as I'd like it to ^^;

Updates!

1. Sticking with water after all. It just looks better with BROWN1, in my opinion.
2. Also, I might've made the encounters a little too unfair after balancing. I am dying much more often than I used to xD
3. I removed a few "ambush" flags on some enemies and instead added a few sound-breaking lines for a hopefully more organic and surprising (see 2)

Not sure what else to say.. this map is turning out to become pretty evil.

One detail: You encounter a lot of "shotgun guys" but other ammo is sparce(ish) so you do come back to pick up the shotguns once you run out. It feels decently balanced that way but I haven't had a full 100% run yet with the current adjustments.

Two detail: I mean.. another detail ^^; The map has a few different ways of approaching the pickups and switches and there's a bunch of crossing your own paths back and forth. I feel like it's pretty neat in that respect. Ultimately you won't be able to finish the game unless you get the red and blue keys- but you don't have to pick them up in a particular order, I suppose.

However I'm off for today because it's midnight and I told myself I'd try to go to bed at a more humane time so.. for real this time xD

Pictures and a potential "old vs new" post (with a download? :O) tomorrow(ish)!

Thoughts!

Would it be interesting at all to see how and why (and when and where) I set ambush flags, what my thoughts are when sound-blocking off an area or passage, etc?

I usually do that "in passing" during the fine tuning phase, mostly.. but sometimes (when I have a certain "reveal" or sequence of encounters in mind) I do it immediately while I work on the "scene" itself.. usually while also testing it out each time to see if the monsters (re)act the way I want ^^

Afterthoughts!

Today is kind of my self-declared chores / housekeeping day.. so after work I'll do exciting things like mopping floors and such xD

The reason I say this is because it means I'll be late to the "finishing up E2M1" party but since it's the weekend for me tomorrow, my spare time is only limited by my ability to ward off sleepiness ^^;

More later!

I had almost forgotten how to do these..

Timeframe, shmimeframe.. Here's E2M1!

I already said a bunch about this map but now you can check it out for yourself. It's online!

Here is the download:

E2M1-compare.zip

Let's have some "first sight" shots of sorts:

Remember URE2020?

^{FLAT22 as a control interface was all the rage in 2010 (2010 version: E1M1)}

Where am I and what happened?

^{Did something break? (2021 version: E2M1)}

The 2010 version already had a bunch of really neat ideas. But my expectations towards myself (and hopefully also my skill) increased during the last 10 years and so the 2021 version is a lot more refined and detailed. 

You want proof?

 
^{0/10 parking job.}

 
^{Uhm.. that was looking like that before already.}

^{There's a few angry guys, it seems..}

 
^{..also: A turret.}

^{And a bunch of fun surprises! Hi! Hello! :3}

Seriously. The surprises just don't seem to stop!

Go check it out yourself, if you dare~

Enjoy :3

Addendum

As always, feel free to test and let me know what stuff might seem unintuitive.. maybe you got stuck somewhere or maybe something is unexpectedly unfair, even for me. Including ammo and other pickups.

I believe that the area where you arrive on that teleporter in the middle of the BROWN1.. thing.. is "a little impossible" without finding one or two of the bonus weapons (the map has all weapons).

Stalling, Stalling.

I am currently working on the map / intermission screen to check out the starting "locations" (positions of the "you are here" and "bloodsplat" markers), to know which levels can be connected by foot and which have to be reached / exited by teleporter. It'll help me to plan out which ideas I'll use for which maps. 

In fact because of this, I think the exit of E2M1 used to be a teleport in the original 2010 version- in the new version you leave through a door. Which means E2M2 will have you come out of an underground tunnel of sorts, to "explain" why you arrived halfway across the map screen. Potentially, I might still change it back to a teleporter, though.. I'm not sure.

I think I mentioned before that I have an map in the E2M2 slot but I'm not 100% sure whether it makes sense for that second location progression slot. It might be better off at E2M6 or E2M7, following the concept map slot "tradition" instated with URE2020.

This phase is actually kind of exciting*!

^{* Opinions might vary.}

[[END OF E2M1]]

8<--------------------------------------- cut here

[[BEGINNING OF E2M2]]

..potentially.

If I do end up sticking with "you arrive from a tunnel", this might be the look back, as a quick idea:

^{Nothing is written in stone, though. Just felt like dabbling a bit.}

More later!

Oh- and also.. E2M1 was the only map that had an "old" version, everything from here on out will be new maps. Not sure if that will be as exciting as the "old vs. new" stuff that was going on during URE2020.

We'll see xD

"Last post before bed"

I scanned in the second batch of "scribbles of the ages" and I found this gem (ca. 2010):

The ideas for improving E2M1!

^{..that's a little bit too late now :D}

Besides, we went far beyond that already, anyways :D

Pasted into the image as a treat: The idea for replacing the unused "thing 70" (burning barrel) with flying sparks, as mentioned in the original post of this thread.

Goodnight!

Scribble Update?

I spent the last 2 days splitting the scanned pages into individual ideas. I'm almost done!

So far, the 72 pages I scanned resulted in 186 individual sniplets.

Don't get your hopes up, though, not all of them are zingers xD

Some of them are just very crude, rudimentary things like..

^..lamps.

This is probably the simplest excerpt, though. Everything else has at least a bit more substance xD

Now I really need to get some sleep though.

More later!

On 6/11/2021 at 5:12 AM, Zylinderkatze said:

Thoughts!

 

Would it be interesting at all to see how and why (and when and where) I set ambush flags, what my thoughts are when sound-blocking off an area or passage, etc?

 

I usually do that "in passing" during the fine tuning phase, mostly.. but sometimes (when I have a certain "reveal" or sequence of encounters in mind) I do it immediately while I work on the "scene" itself.. usually while also testing it out each time to see if the monsters (re)act the way I want ^^

 

Yeah, that would be well worth reading in my opinion!

There might not be many replies right now, but please rest assured that your posts are read and enjoyed.

"Erstens kommt es anders; Und Zweitens als man denkt"

So I worked and worked on E2M2, until I finally realized that what I was working on.. doesn't really fit in with the concept of URE2021. So now I moved that map to its own file and started fresh with a new E2M2 ^^;

This means that the way you leave E2M1 is not through the nifty "reverse stairs" anymore.. because E2M1 and E2M2 are too far apart from one another on the.. intermission screen map that it doesn't make much sense to me to have them connect, not even with an implied tunnel (because that's like a several mile walk).

Instead there's a bit of reversal on E2M1:

^{Now with a visual cue™ to the switch that opens it.}

Not that you really needed a cue because that's clearly a brightly lit control room with view of only that one strange structure in that outside area.. but still ^^;

And E2M2 starts off in a rather BROWN1-y area:

^{Potential new teleporter design? Maybe.}

You'll arrive on that platfom (under the pointer in the middle of the screen).

Not sure whether the landing teleporter will stay that way, though.. because the "departure" teleporter on E2M1 is currently just a FLAT22 (the blue.. round thing on silver). The problem with this design is that the sectors for the red lights / lamps each have 12 lines.. so 48 in total. I'm worried that the detail will push that final area over the edge, detail-wise. Even if it's not really that much detail ^^;

I'll have to try it / test it in game with actual gameplay progression to see if the "theoretical breach of vanilla limits" projected by UDB can actually happen in game.

Afterthought?

The second picture above is probably a good indicator for the way my maps will look from now on out, since I'll make them all from scratch :)

I mean- where height diversity and such goes. Not so much the texture diversity xD

Who are you and what did you do to ZK?

So I kept at it and E2M2 is slowly expanding..

^{Wait.. are those light levels over 170?}

The map is more generous with space and light and I'm beginning to wonder what's wrong with me xD

For example, the room I took this screenshot from is 256 x 256! O_O

I suppose this will go on for as long as I am having fun with BROWN1.. 

I just went through all my scanned concepts & ideas and I have a few ideas of the direction to take this in.

Let's see ^^;

Hey kids, do you like violence?

I mean.. 

Uhm..

Remember when I said I might do "scribble to map" side-by-side comparisons?

Guess what!

^Scribbly!

^Mappy!

Those textures aren't final. I mean.. I do kind of like how I managed to get stuff to align like that.. but it's just too BROWN1-ish. And even though I forgot to write down the kind of textures / colors / mood(s) I had in mind (or.. my subconscious had in mind when I dreamt that scene), I am pretty sure it wasn't "all brown everything" xD

I believe the segment above the raised walkways (basically the raised wall with the windows) would look better as a computer-y console sort of thing.. and I might actually end up going with "the other idea" (on the right side of the scribble) and make it a (comp)blue wall instead of a window.

..I suppose it depends also on what I end up putting behind that door xD

More on that later!

Calculating. Please wait.

Too much silver?

^{Or not enough silver?}

Current process: Finding out weather to remove some of ther silver up top.. or add some texture to the raised platform that'll harmonize with the silver.

Caught between frustration and excitement xD

What.. oh no..

If this keeps going, the whole map will be silver xD

^{It's not that bad, though. I think.}

I'll just continue with other parts and then come back to this later ^^;

I assume the "SUPPORT2" will make way for something else.. probably less silver.

beware! somebody's stealing our beloved brown color!

If you want my opinion, there's certainly not too much silver per se but yes, having the SUPPORT texture all along the wall up there does look odd.   I don't think its replacement necessarily needs to be less silver; much of it could be, say, something from the SHAWN family, with SUPPORT used for trim as it usually is.

Doing an entire room in that concentration of silver, yes, probably too much.  Here, though, there's plenty of brown and blue to dilute it.  Especially the brown helps take the edge off the richness of the silver and blue (but you don't need me to tell you that since you're already such a maestro/meister with regards to pleasing vanilla design).