Knee-Deep in KDiZD: Released! It's KDiZD for doom2.exe - 1.7.1 is now on /idgames

1 minute ago, Gregor said:

I see. The fact that they stop existing after resurrecting isn't visible through Whacked, or at least i can't see it. It just lists the actor looping A_VileChase indefinitely. I also couldn't find the code responsible for this in your DEH patch source. How would you define this in dehacked?

When it finds something to resurrect, the VileChase codepointer will always jump to a hardcoded state (I'm not sure of the state number, but it's S_VILE_HEAL1 in the source code and in DEH9000) which performs the revive animation. I modified that hardcoded state to set NULL (state 0) as its next state, so they cease to exist after resurrecting one monster.

# Resurrector (replaces MT_SPIDER)
m = mobjinfo[MT_SPIDER]
m.objectname = "Resurrector (Spiderdemon)"
m.doomednum = 7
m.speed = 40
m.radius = 16 * FRACUNIT
m.height = 16 * FRACUNIT
m.damage = 0
m.reactiontime = 1
m.painchance = 1
m.mass = 100
m.flags = (MF_DROPOFF | MF_NOGRAVITY | MF_FLOAT | MF_NOSECTOR)
states[S_VILE_HEAL1].nextstate = 0   # Resurrect one monster and then stop

m.update(states.parse("""
    Spawn:
        HISS A 1 A_Look
        Goto Spawn
    See:
        HISS A 1 A_VileChase
        Loop
"""))

BTW, some corrections and comments for the wiki article:

The Bruiser's third attack is also triggered by its pain state, not just its melee state.

The Hell Warrior's shield makes it invulnerable against most attacks, but it can still be hurt by rocket splash damage.

The Mauler is similar to its KDiZD counterpart, but it's a bit smarter, since it uses A_FaceTarget in its Spawn state (which is always returned to after the SkullAttack behavior stops), to prevent it from sleeping on the job as long as it has a line of sight to the player.

The Hell Knight uses dehacked to recolor the Baron's sprites, so simply saying it uses the same sprites is a bit misleading. (The Nightmare Demon also works the same way, with only two states from its attack using unique sprites and the rest being recolored via dehacked. Though I'm not sure whether a lot of these implementation details are relevant to the article, outside of maybe a Trivia section or something?)

KDiKDiZD isn't a community project, it was a small-team project that later became a solo mapping project.

The other KDiKDiZD contributors really shouldn't be relegated to a single line of vague credits at the bottom of the map list. The full credits for each level are listed in the txt (the standalone version of the txt has been updated recently for better clarity).

To explain further, all of the levels have been completely or nearly-completely rebuilt from scratch, with thing placement mostly unrelated to their KDiZD counterparts, and both the layout and visuals have been heavily editorialized in every map (some more than others, with Z1M5 and Z1M8 in particular being the most drastically different, Z1M7 having its layout flow completely rearranged with new areas added to make it work, Z1M9 having its visuals completely redone in a different style, Z1M4 having many of its added areas redesigned, etc).

The first section of the article says that KDiKDiZD is using the same set of custom monsters as KDiZD, but this is only partially true. There are a number of differences between them (which are already covered in the Custom Monsters section further down).

30 minutes ago, esselfortium said:

BTW, some corrections and comments for the wiki article:

Thanks for the additional information! I'll update the article accordingly.

16 hours ago, esselfortium said:

Hmmm... Did this happen after playing the entire level, or did you noclip to the switch? Some of the scripts are chained together on the same voodoo doll conveyor. It seems to be working here if I run through the rest of the level first (and Z1M1 itself hasn't been updated since build 2, I think).

sorry for the late reply, i played normally on dom retro, and idkfa'd on dosbox.

11 minutes ago, The Dommo said:

sorry for the late reply, i played normally on dom retro, and idkfa'd on dosbox.

Thanks. That's weird, I haven't been able to replicate it so far. Thanks for the report, in any case.

8 minutes ago, esselfortium said:

Thanks. That's weird, I haven't been able to replicate it so far. Thanks for the report, in any case.

i dont know if it matters, but i also iddqd'd on dosbox. sorry for the constant replies.

I saw this thing on youtube, can't wait to play it!!

Just completed my playthrough using Cripsy Doom (build 4)

On Z1M4 there's a couple of spots that don't do any damage to the player in the reactor toxic zone, haven't checked if it's due to missing the damage flag or because of the microdetail, but might be worth checking. It's still present on build 5

I'm not a big fan of the original KDIZD gameplay but i was really curious about checking it out. It's extremely impressive for vanilla and i really appreciated some of the changes made to the original encounters and layouts. One thing i do have to comment on is how much i loved the music (specially z1m4 and z1m8).

Overall really impressive work, and despite the fact that i don't like the original kdizd much i really had fun playing the demake

2 hours ago, DMPhobos said:

Just completed my playthrough using Cripsy Doom (build 4)

 

On Z1M4 there's a couple of spots that don't do any damage to the player in the reactor toxic zone, haven't checked if it's due to missing the damage flag or because of the microdetail, but might be worth checking. It's still present on build 5

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

I'm not a big fan of the original KDIZD gameplay but i was really curious about checking it out. It's extremely impressive for vanilla and i really appreciated some of the changes made to the original encounters and layouts. One thing i do have to comment on is how much i loved the music (specially z1m4 and z1m8).

 

Overall really impressive work, and despite the fact that i don't like the original kdizd much i really had fun playing the demake

Thanks for playing, glad you enjoyed!

I think the non-damaging parts you ran into are due to the use of self-referencing sectors in that area. I'm not sure whether I can do much about it.

How do i reach the blue armor secret in map 6? The obvious elevator that leads to it doesn't move and i searched around for hours and can't find anything XD

4 minutes ago, TasAcri said:

How do i reach the blue armor secret in map 6? The obvious elevator that leads to it doesn't move and i searched around for hours and can't find anything XD

You can run out of the window at the stairs nearby it, if you start from the top of the stairs.

Hi, I'm trying this out on Eternity and for some reason after the first map, it plays the same music again for the second map. I don't think this is on my end because the music from standard doom works just fine.

On most recent version of Eternity (dev build)

7 minutes ago, Mr Masker said:

Hi, I'm trying this out on Eternity and for some reason after the first map, it plays the same music again for the second map. I don't think this is on my end because the music from standard doom works just fine.

 

On most recent version of Eternity (dev build)

I noticed the same issue in Eternity -- it turned out it was a symptom of (mistakenly) playing with the Ultimate Doom IWAD instead of Doom2.wad. Might be worth checking your IWAD since the music seems to work for me on a recent EE dev build.

3 minutes ago, skillsaw said:

 

I noticed the same issue in Eternity -- it turned out it was a symptom of (mistakenly) playing with the Ultimate Doom IWAD instead of Doom2.wad. Might be worth checking your IWAD since the music seems to work for me on a recent EE dev build.

Oh, you're not supposed to play with Ultimate Doom? I should really read these details more often

3 hours ago, esselfortium said:

You can run out of the window at the stairs nearby it, if you start from the top of the stairs.

Edit: Nvm, i found it, thanks!

I really love the transparent/shiny floor trick in this! Can't wait for others to use this trick in future maps!

@esselfortium I noticed that there are some minor discrepancies between the .txt files in KDiZD and KDiKDiZD concerning KDiZD's map credits: KDiZD lists you as a secondary mapper for Z1M1 but the KDiKDiZD.txt omits that. There is also a secondary mapping credit given to Vader for Z1M7 that the KDiKDiZD.txt doesn't include.

3 minutes ago, Gregor said:

@esselfortium I noticed that there are some minor discrepancies between the .txt files in KDiZD and KDiKDiZD concerning KDiZD's map credits: KDiZD lists you as a secondary mapper for Z1M1 but the KDiKDiZD.txt omits that. There is also a secondary mapping credit given to Vader for Z1M7 that the KDiKDiZD.txt doesn't include.

I don't know why I'm credited as a secondary mapper on Z1M1, I only did a few revisions for the 1.1 update (since I was around already for TSoZD) and wasn't involved in its original creation at all. In any case, KDiKDiZD was based on the original 1.0 release of KDiZD.

I can add Vader's credit to Z1M7.

2 minutes ago, esselfortium said:

I don't know why I'm credited as a secondary mapper on Z1M1, I only did a few revisions for the 1.1 update (since I was around already for TSoZD) and wasn't involved in its original creation at all.

 

I can add Vader's credit to Z1M7, though.

Alright, than i add Vader in the wiki.

Btw, why does the flare rifle use DSDBLOAD instead of DSPLASMA for its firing sound?

Just now, Gregor said:

Alright, than i add Vader in the wiki.

 

Btw, why does the flare rifle use DSDBLOAD instead of DSPLASMA for its firing sound?

Playing the sound from the weapon itself (via the A_LoadShotgun2 codepointer) instead of from the projectile prevented some noticeable sound dropouts I was getting with it in vanilla.

1 hour ago, esselfortium said:

Playing the sound from the weapon itself (via the A_LoadShotgun2 codepointer) instead of from the projectile prevented some noticeable sound dropouts I was getting with it in vanilla.

That's actually very interesting. I never really focused on the fact that the plasma gun firing sound gets overridden by the impact sound of the projectile. DSPLASMA and DSFIRXPL complement each other really well, and i guess the high firing rate of the plasma gun allows DSPLASMA to play between gaps of DSFIRXPL (?); as a result it isn't normally really all that noticeable, but still - curious technical limitation.

i noticed that the SSG firing sound is a lower quality version of the same sound used in KDiZD, while the flare rifle uses the firing sound of its KDiZD counterpart at seemingly the same quality. Why did the SSG sound had to be compressed that way but not the rifle sound?  

EDIT: Sorry for the overload of questions. I just wanna make sure i got the info right before i put it in the wiki.

8 hours ago, Gregor said:

i noticed that the SSG firing sound is a lower quality version of the same sound used in KDiZD, while the flare rifle uses the firing sound of its KDiZD counterpart at seemingly the same quality. Why did the SSG sound had to be compressed that way but not the rifle sound?  

 

EDIT: Sorry for the overload of questions. I just wanna make sure i got the info right before i put it in the wiki.

Hmm, I don't really have an article-worthy answer for that one. I probably converted it 15 years ago using different tools or simply with less knowledge of what vanilla could handle, and I never noticed it afterwards. I guess I could convert the SSG sounds again.

@esselfortiumBecause this is such a benchmark mapset, i am going to add a section on the article where it highlights what this WAD does. Perhaps you can add a little bit to it: What are the real technical tricks demonstrated here?

I plan on doing do similar for Batman Doom which also does a lot of DeHacked trickery.

So far i got:

I have just reached the secret level and so far there were already quite a few scenes I never expected to see in a vanilla pwad, or at least haven't seen for a really long time. Like when you push objects around or blow up walls with explosives (not to speak of the security monitors). Extrordinary achievement for a project with vanilla limitations.

The levels themselves are still as complex and (sometimes) confusing as I remember them from playing the original, but it's part of the throwback experience. Finding all the keycards in the third level is definitely something, for example!

Oh, and shouldn't forget to mention that the MIDIs absolutely kick ass here. I dunno why, but the S-YXG50 VSTi seems to produce especially remarkable renditions of these tracks. Had to check whether digitized music is used, it sounded THAT good.

On map 6 atm. It's been incredible. It really pleases me to think that had there been the knowledge and tools this could have been released in '95. Hard to imagine more than this ever being eked out of our humble doom2.exe again. Some parts of this must have been absolute torture to make!

Love the ingenuity with all the vanilla FX, magicking bugs into features. The transparent floors are so convincing and gave me flashbacks to the stippling in my first can't-afford-a-gpu experience of Quake 2. The coloured flashing area in M2 is incredibly well done- the careful selection of enemies kept the effect believable, felt like I had a bit of an perceptual illusion with my brain tinting the sprites the rest of the way to the ambient colour. The sum of all these tricks is so convincing, the eye gets used to slopes, transparency and coloured lighting. It's funny, because I remember back in the 90s thinking it was really crappy and hacky when seeing lighting baked onto textures etc. But really, why quibble whether an engine is actually calculating a pattern and colour of light on a surface? What is a 3d game if not an illusion anyway? It's objecting to one trick at one layer and ignoring a hundred others elsewhere. The effect is all.

I've really enjoyed the downbeat and haunting reimaginings of the original soundtrack too (E1M4 aside). E1M9 has been my favourite map so far, incredibly atmospheric. But they've all been very fun so far, with a constant stream of enjoyable encounters, cool bits of imaginative architecture and visual design -- somehow so ingeniously packed into the punitive vanilla constraints that it appears to have been made without any constraints at all. Map 6 has certainly been the most sprawling so far, but very intelligently routed around the central control room so that it's remained quite navigable.

Bbetween the grim visuals and music, it's very funny too, from the re-enactment conceit to the demon energy -> 120v converter. Plan phase 1: make demons leave. So good!
 

Utterly inspiring stuff, perhaps especially to a vanilla masochist like me. The shield mechanic is surely a dehacked first? Looking forward to playing the rest!

holt s--t *_*

Right, so nothing special, actually. (/sarkasm off)

I loved all of the architectural and layout changes made to the original levels - I almost wish they could be backported for new version of KDIZD.

The new/modified textures are also cool - I particularly liked the new silver computer textures which prominently appear in Z1M7. They look much nicer than my attempt :)

Something else that might be worth noting on the wiki is that (unless memory fails me) there's some TSoZD content here in the form of the Soul Reaper.

I'm curious why Z1M10 wasn't included. Obviously it couldn't be accessed the same way as in KDIZD, but perhaps it could have been reached through Z1M9 instead. Was the level just that bad, or were there technical problems such as practically impossible to avoid VPOs?

I'm also wondering if the inclusion of the suicide bombers is an in-joke ridiculing the habit of KDIZD's rocket troopers to blow themselves up?