Doom Community Iceberg (Entry Suggestions Needed)

17 hours ago, Sena said:

• Jeremy Corbyn

Uhh... is this a joke or is there something I'm missing? If this isn't a joke - you can put this at the very bottom then!

1 hour ago, mrthejoshmon said:

doom = human body allegory

Lmao this brought back some memories for me, far before I decided to make my account here back in 2015.

One entry for the very, VERY bottom could be the youtuber "RENReguard". It's a shame that they aren't that well known, because their project "~25 Years of Doom" is really fun to watch!

7 minutes ago, Ar_e_en said:

Uhh... is this a joke or is there something I'm missing? If this isn't a joke - you can put this at the very bottom then!

It's real.

4 minutes ago, taufan99 said:

It's real.

Oh...

I mean - it sounds more like a "Margret Thatcher" entry than a "Jeremy Corbyn" thing.

19 minutes ago, Ar_e_en said:

Around the middle: The youtuber "MarphitimusBlackimus" (Although, he's more of a Half-Life youtuber than anything)

I just remembered that he made all those weird Revenant wads! I Should have called him a map or mod creator instead.

35 minutes ago, Ar_e_en said:

Uhh... is this a joke or is there something I'm missing? If this isn't a joke - you can put this at the very bottom then!

Taufan was halfway on track, Corbyn was seen playing an arcade machine running the Thatcher-killing WAD and got into a bit of trouble with the press.

Some tier name ideas:

• Tier 4: Shores of Hell
• Tier 5: Deep Into the Code
• Tier 6: Getting too Tense
• Tier 7: Opening to Hell

Also images for the tiers if you need 'em:
 

25 minutes ago, Quill said:

Some tier name ideas:

• Tier 4: Shores of Hell
• Tier 5: Deep Into the Code
• Tier 6: Getting too Tense
• Tier 7: Opening to Hell

Also images for the tiers if you need 'em:
 

  Reveal hidden contents

Tier 4 (Shores of Hell)


Tier 5 (Deep Into the Code)


Tier 6 (Getting too Tense)


Tier 7 (Opening to Hell)


Tier 8 (Sweet Little Dead Bunny)

 

Thank you so much for this!

Also from time to time I'm going to be giving little "patch notes" for each addition to the iceberg, the most recent changes are as follows:

-Changed the Jeremy Corbyn entry to "Margaret Thatcher" with a link to the wikipedia page for Thatcher's Techbase

-Moved Dwars up to the 2nd tier

-Added IcarusLives to the 1st tier

-Named all of the tiers and added images, all curtesy of @Quill

-Changed a small setting on the site so now you don't need an account to propose an entry

-And added the ability to write descriptions for all entries that can be viewed by hovering over the text

-(old change) Removed the Mussolini entry

As always, the page for the iceberg can be found here:

https://icebergcharts.com/i/Doom_Community

P.S. You should put the link in the main post so people don't have to go through pages of stuff.

Probably, the Eric Harris levels should go in the middle, since at least some of them can be downloaded, and even the ones that can't still have all their names known, at least we think we do.

/vr/ wads should be deeper (Tier 3 at least)

I didn't know about these until some guy from there today came to Doomer Boards and posted his Mondo 2022 project

oh, boy! my esoteric doom knowledge finally comes in handy!

here's one that'll bring back memories for the ancient users: doom 2000. might wanna put that one into the 6th level :p

you could also probably put ARCHIE in the 5th to last level, seeing as how i've never seen a single mainstream youtuber so much as mention it (unlike rootpain and grezzo 2, which, tbh, have been covered to death) despite it being one of the creepier wads out there.

also, i'd say that the multi-core doom source port deserves a spot in there - possibly in the 5th or 6th level - because i've seen it get jokingly brought up several times, and it was pretty damn funny if you were there. no link to it cuz it got post hell'd a loooong time ago. same with wesleyjohnson's massive mapping manifesto, which i unfortunately don't have a link to on hand

the whole drama with shadowman could go somewhere in the 4th level, as could the drama with impie

The "Unauthorized Doom 1.6 beta (hacked version)" and "Unauthorized Doom 2 1.666 (bootleg version)" should probably be added just for their historical significance. The Doom 2 bootleg in particular was really, REALLY common, and in fact still is on old DOS game downloading sites and such.. It was actually the version of Doom 2 I grew up with. (To be clear, there is also a "legit" Doom2 1.666, but it's got a date modified 5 days later than the bootleg).

Following those, the Doom Alpha Versions and Doom 2 Beta Version both probably warrant mention, maybe in the 2nd or 3rd tiers. They're not super obscure, but I don't think "passing glance" Doomers know about them til they dig a little deeper.

"Doom started online/international multiplayer" should also be mentioned, maybe on the first or second tier since that's fairly well known, although the internet at large seems to credit this to Quake. Maybe Quake popularized it, but Doom started it, and was no slouch in terms of popularity for that matter.

TNT: Eviltuion started out as a free pwad, and there was (very brief, and often overstated in the years since) grief in the community that it was ultimately paywalled via Final Doom. Really though, only like 11 people gave a shit about this for 8 minutes back in early 1996.

Harris should probably be mentioned in tier 1 - solely because everyone and their dog's mom has heard of him and his maps. I feel the maps themselves are not worthy of mention; Harris even being on this list at all is something I'm not thrilled about, but on the other side, it's a simple fact of Doom community history. Come to think of it, "Eric Harris did NOT make a map of his school" should be added as the only map-based entrant related to Harris, probably on the 3rd tier down, because that's actually true but the lie about him making "a map of columbine" is way more common.

Getting back to lighter notes - Skulltag and ZDaemon, in addition to Odamex, Eternity Engine, DSDA-Doom and Doom Legacy probably all should be added. Skulltag would be in "Entryway" imo since despite being dead for 12 years it's somehow still a fairly household name in the realm of MP Doom. The others should probably be in KDITD, since they're known within the community, but not really outside of it. (hell, I don't want to flood this thing with nothing but source ports, but Woof! and Crispy Doom are both popular enough to warrant a slot...)

"DoomerBoards was founded as DumbWorld" just has to be mentioned. I mean, come on.

One last (semi-legitimate) point - should "Ultra-obscure Doom ports" be one entry that sorta covers all of them? I'm talking about crap like "Tapwave Zodiac Doom". Not all of this shit can be mentioned of course, but at least a consolidated "one size fits all" entry might be warranted. Stuff like 3DO Doom or PSX Doom or whatever obviously won't be under this umbrella.

On 1/2/2023 at 9:28 AM, roadworx said:

you could also probably put ARCHIE in the 5th to last level, seeing as how i've never seen a single mainstream youtuber so much as mention it (unlike rootpain and grezzo 2, which, tbh, have been covered to death) despite it being one of the creepier wads out there.

I'm far from mainstream, but still, have I never even mentioned ARCHIE on my channel? Fuck, I gotta get on that. The trailer alone made me feel some feelings, that's for damn sure. The wad itself is something else entirely..

No mention of the Master Levels?

3 minutes ago, Lucius Wooding said:

No mention of the Master Levels?

Specifically that the Master Levels and Maximum Doom were created to compete with D!Zone and other shovelware CDs making easy money off low-effort wad compilations. Important trivia on the Classic Doom timeline for sure!

A lot of Multiplayer content (especially PvP) like the International Doom League or the World Doom League is automatically barred to the lower rungs of the iceberg simply because of how few people even play Doom for multiplayer, let alone for competitive games (and probably for how few people look into multiplayer wads/content in general).

Oh yeah and then there was that one time Jace Hall hosted a survival competition for a map on Chillax with Hard Doom for big bucks.

8 minutes ago, Argent Agent said:

A lot of Multiplayer content (especially PvP) like the International Doom League or the World Doom League is automatically barred to the lower rungs of the iceberg simply because of how few people even play Doom for multiplayer, let alone for competitive games

I agree that MP Doom is greatly underrepresented (as you know), but since the lower rungs are meant to be for obscure stuff, doesn't that technically make the IDL and WDL perfect candidates for deep-tier status? Or am I misunderstanding this whole thing? Because if I am my last post suddenly makes far less sense.

I don't know if my monster count thread is relevant enough to be on even the lowest tier. But I have put a lot of work into it.

thanks for all the input, yall

got some stuff on my hands atm but i'll try and sit down and add all of DoomKid's suggestions

thank you all very much for the input, as always

Here’s an interesting thing I found in one of Doom’s alpha builds, I came across this incredibly primitive version of the map of the first episode in the intermission, it's kind of interesting, not only does it imply there would be 13 maps an episode instead of 9 but the Doomguy head in the bottom right is called "W_CURSOR" somewhere else in the files, it kind of seems to me at an earlier point in development you would be able to take on the maps in a less linear order than what we ended up getting, I'm just speculating because I have no idea how to run this alpha build but that's how it appears

2 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Specifically that the Master Levels and Maximum Doom were created to compete with D!Zone and other shovelware CDs making easy money off low-effort wad compilations. Important trivia on the Classic Doom timeline for sure!

A bit off topic, but a thread or other informative content on the classic Doom timeline would be pretty interesting IMO. Those of us who weren't around in the community in the 90s, or even born by that point wouldn't know a lot of this kind of stories behind what's out there. I've seen some doomtubers play maps but covering the topic of overall lore in the community would be a really welcome project. Efforts to back up and track down obscure wads is a good start, but putting all the major events in order and explaining their connections is a different aspect. Particularly from the fan community point of view.

It's been nearly 30 years, but so much knowledge could be recorded while there are still boomers around (and with the interest) to tell the tales. I've seen some other games have this kind of historical work done by their fanbases, but being such an influential game and having its rise along with the early internet the way it did, Doom must have a very rich past. Being a 90s kid I can remember how some things were that newer Doom players would have no idea about (Hell Revealed having a link to a Geocities page is a good example; what those kinds of pages on that site were like is hard to describe to someone who's never seen it because they were born too late for it to be relevant). 

On 12/31/2022 at 5:09 PM, skript_kitty said:

LINK: https://icebergcharts.com/i/Doom_Community

 

I'm a huge fan of iceberg charts, and I think they can be a really fun way to explore information revolving around a certain topic, video game, movie, etc. I personally wasn't really satisfied with the "disturbing" doom iceberg covered by youtubers such as Midnight, particularly due to the fact they seem more focused on rumors rather than trivia, interesting facts, and cool creations surrounding, well, Doom!

 

As such, I've taken it upon myself to start work on a Doom iceberg focused on the community, particularly modding, memes, and everything in between, and I thought what better place to ask for entries than Doomworld, a forum dedicated to well, Doom.

 

Here's a preview of the first three or so levels, keep in mind this is a HEAVY work in progress, and entries are bound to be moved up and down and changed category. I should also note that, on the site that this is going to be published to, almost every entry (should) have a link.

 

P.s. these are ranked based on obscurity! The top level being things those with only a passing knowledge of the Doom community would most likely know about

 

P.p.s due to some confusion in the thread I want to clarify and stress that this iceberg is not finished, and that these are not all of the entries or layers. There are more layers. These are just the ones that I've deemed to be in somewhat of a presentable condition.

 

 I´m playing Doom 2 rpg and I think most people don´t know about its main boss: the mysterious VIOS

Don't forget about The Bloodite Krypto Scandal and the resulting copypasta! Tier 2 or 3.

i dont think dwars should be in the bottom, he is pretty well known. i'd recommend switching it with dario casali's wad playthroughs there. 

1 minute ago, Z50 said:

i dont think dwars should be in the bottom, he is pretty well known. i'd recommend switching it with dario casali's wad playthroughs there. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

https://www.youtube.com/@Dario.Casali/playlists

 

 

dwars isn't in the bottom, he's only on the second tier. which is pretty fitting, seeing how he's a lesser-known doomtuber

2 minutes ago, roadworx said:

dwars isn't in the bottom, he's only on the second tier. which is pretty fitting, seeing how he's a lesser-known doomtuber

oh sorry, didnt see that

I wonder where all of the cartoony/MSPaint Doom mods would go on this Doom Iceberg?

At this point in time, I feel like there's enough content to actually talk about it. Aside from the obvious ones like Adventures of Square and Neutronian Chaos, there's also Lizard Squad, MSPaint Doom, Final Fantasy Doom and technically Action Doom (weren't the majority of the sprites for that mod made in MSPaint?)

5 hours ago, Doomkid said:

I'm far from mainstream, but still, have I never even mentioned ARCHIE on my channel? Fuck, I gotta get on that. The trailer alone made me feel some feelings, that's for damn sure. The wad itself is something else entirely..

also, to answer this - no, i don't believe you have. in fact, outside of like, two threads, i haven't seen it mentioned at all.

Others I thought of:

DWANGO - first multiplayer DOOM.

ZDoom - Gets special mention for ZDoom, for which GZDoom is directly based from. Graf Zahl, for creation of GZDoom.

Massmouth - He was with Hissy. One eyed alien like.

People Credits:

Fraggle, Randy Heit, Graf Zahl, Carnevil - all port devs.

Other Ideas:

NJDoom - quite possibly the notable first megawad. Appears @ maximum DOOM.

Hell Revealed belongs here. Map24 especially.

Bloodstain may be worthy of a lower tier. Amazing megawad.

Alien DOOM - very old TC. 1990s.

Also, perhaps Ultimate DOOM & Thy Flesh Consumed vs plain DOOM?

Also, is Brutal DOOM infamous due to the mod or the author?

5 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Harris should probably be mentioned in tier 1 - solely because everyone and their dog's mom has heard of him and his maps. I feel the maps themselves are not worthy of mention; Harris even being on this list at all is something I'm not thrilled about, but on the other side, it's a simple fact of Doom community history. Come to think of it, "Eric Harris did NOT make a map of his school" should be added as the only map-based entrant related to Harris, probably on the 3rd tier down, because that's actually true but the lie about him making "a map of columbine" is way more common.

 

I agree Eric Harris should be on tier 1 NOT just for the above reason but also due to articles such as this: 

https://web.archive.org/web/20010909175952/http://www.cnn.com:80/US/9904/28/dark.culture/

If there was an ultimate villain of Doomworld; it would be him. I remember my parents taking DOOM away for a week/month or so when this happened. Because of him, playing any FPS (esp. DOOM) was considered taboo for a while. 

UAC Labs is worthy of mention solely because it is one of the Top 10 Infamous Wads.

Also, Ling should earn a top spot. Without him, Doomworld wouldn't exist. And TBH, it's quite possible FPS's would not be a thing had he not successfully defended/guided DW when people did not look as kindly upon FPS players due to Eric Harris. And yes, Ling made it in some of these articles. If Eric Harris is the villain of DW, then Ling is the hero of DW.