Okuplok?

[RedGyarados]

Just saw his Holy hell run. Super epic. Did he cheated or not? If not, he's a god.

[Catpho]

I think there was a debate about this long ago, not sure what was the conclusion but i think you can search on google.

[Memfis]

Okuplok was unlucky in that he happened to be the first in the new generation of super speedrunners to get everyone's attention. Back then some prominent oldschool recorders were still active and they just weren't able to accept the fact that someone could be so much better than their icons (such as stx-Vile or Belial). If Okuplok wasn't there, they would probably go against Ancalagon or something instead.

[Catpho]

3 minutes ago, Memfis said:

Okuplok was unlucky in that he happened to be the first in the new generation of super speedrunners to get everyone's attention. Back then some prominent oldschool recorders were still active and they just weren't able to accept the fact that someone could be so much better than their icons (such as stx-Vile or Belial). If Okuplok wasn't there, they would probably go against Ancalagon or something instead.

So after Okuplok, they magically accepted Anc?

[Grain of Salt]

I question this narrative, because j4rio and krypto were around a while before okuplok, and they're quite close to him in terms of skill imo.

[Memfis]

Now they are close. But back then j4rio was recording GZDoom demos and I'm not sure if Krypto was speedrunning at all.

[Grain of Salt]

Krypto and Okuplok were recording Sunder maxes at the same time, I'm pretty sure. In like mid 2010 when Sunder had 10 maps.

[baja blast rd.]

The suspicion about Okupluk wasn't caused primarily by the overall quality of his play. It was spearheaded mostly by specific runs in which he demonstrated an ability to avoid damage for long stretches in ways people with high familiarity with the maps considered inconceivable. 

 

Here are some discussions worth reading to get a more accurate picture of what people felt: 

 

In the first Misc Demos thread, goes on for a few pages. 

A follow-up thread. 

 

Bits and pieces of discussion can be found elsewhere, so I'd suggest searching 'Okuplok' on DW afterwards. It's also worth noting that there are highly credible analysts who believe(d) Okuplok to be legitimate, such as SAV88. 

Edited March 25, 2018 by rdwpa

[dew]

Okuplok was a very talented player and everyone recognized it. No one's ever claimed he cheated all his runs, the allegations revolved around the no-hit sd20 UV max in 8:14. Even back then, it wasn't seen as a particularly fast run and tatsurd smashed it by nearly 30 seconds a couple of months later, but oku just didn't get hit during the entire run except for one intentional avjump. He never uploaded the demo and he deleted the video along with his entire youtube channel soon after the discussion started (I managed to save the video from my cache). When he briefly came back, he uploaded a zdoom maxdemo of a different map to prove himself and made a swipe at his detractors for being jealous of his skills. Then he left us for good.

 

Basically it remains in the eye of the beholder whether okuplok cheated or not, because he was extremely unhelpful in dispelling the rumours. Of course if you hate the community and the people who run it in particular, it's quite clear where your opinion will stand.

[Grain of Salt]

He also did a coop uv-speed(?) of sunder map10, which iirc a few people considered proof enough that he wasn't cheating. Can't remember what port it was in, though.

 

For the record, I strongly lean towards the interpretation that he didn't cheat. There just doesn't seem to be any really strong evidence that he did, just circumstantial stuff.

 

My favorite okuplok videos were the ones of a seagull attacking his skylight. I think they were called something like "seagull!". Those were the days :')

[Catpho]

24 minutes ago, Grain of Salt said:

He also did a coop uv-speed(?) of sunder map10, which iirc a few people considered proof enough that he wasn't cheating. Can't remember what port it was in, though.

 

For the record, I strongly lean towards the interpretation that he didn't cheat. There just doesn't seem to be any really strong evidence that he did, just circumstantial stuff.

 

My favorite okuplok videos were the ones of a seagull attacking his skylight. I think they were called something like "seagull!". Those were the days :')

"Pads back"

Anyway, i did come across talks about Okuplok cheating when i was still lurking. Those allegations never really got into mind tbh, but now we'll never really know now.

A video @dew? Can you show it (or link it)?

Edited March 25, 2018 by Catpho

[Zulk RS]

I watched the Holy Hell video too. I think it was in 2011-2012 and I was 13 or 14 years old at the time. That about 3 hour long video had me staring at my computer screen in awe the entire time. I downloaded and fired up Holy Hell after that and it crashed my computer (I was using a 2nd hand, Windows XP SP3 desktop with about 512 MB RAM and I think 1-12 GB Hard drive (not sure exactly. I remember the number was in GB and it either had 1,2 or both in it).

 

It's a shame he stopped making Doom UV max runs. I don't usually enjoy such videos but I did enjoy the ones he made.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Zulk RS

[Memfis]

It didn't help that Oku came from the Zandronum community, which had very little connections with this one. In the eyes of Doomworlders he appeared out of nowhere and suddenly began posting these incredible runs. Local demo enthusiasts never saw him growing in skill and they weren't aware of the new wave of strong online players. The whole story basically paints this place as an island country that doesn't understand what's happening in the world due to the lack of international communication.

[Catpho]

Just now, Memfis said:

It didn't help that Oku came from the Zandronum community, which had very little connections with this one. In the eyes of Doomworlders he appeared out of nowhere and suddenly began posting these incredible runs. Local demo enthusiasts never saw him growing in skill and they weren't aware of the new wave of strong online players. The whole story basically paints this place as an island country that doesn't understand what's happening in the world due to the lack of international communication.

....Huh?

[Grain of Salt]

Memfis, you gotta warm up before you stretch.

[dew]

41 minutes ago, Memfis said:

It didn't help that Oku came from the Zandronum community, which had very little connections with this one. In the eyes of Doomworlders he appeared out of nowhere and suddenly began posting these incredible runs. Local demo enthusiasts never saw him growing in skill and they weren't aware of the new wave of strong online players. The whole story basically paints this place as an island country that doesn't understand what's happening in the world due to the lack of international communication.

Last time you played Zandronum, you spent 30 minutes failing to even run it, after which you declared that monkeys had to program it. You have next to zero concept of its community, so it would be cool if you stopped developing this weird anti-hero headcanon. I came to the speedrun community from Zdaemon, which is even more of a separate island, and my first submitted classic speedrun is probably optimal time, yet no one discriminated me for my "origin". Do you have anything to back up your claims, or are you just freestyling here?

[Memfis]

Extremely optimized uv-speeds became a standard many many years before your appearance. I don't know, you have very deep understanding of that stuff, so perhaps you can say that your demos are somehow much more impressive than what Adam Williamson and all these guys were doing 10 years before you. But I believe that most demo watchers won't see a big improvement compared to the classic Compet-n demos if they watch your speedruns. Your efforts weren't perceived as revolutionary by the public.

 

This is very different from Okuplok's situation. He improved from previous generations of players in the most spectacular way possible: by dominating hardcore slaughtermaps and making them look piss easy. For a commoner, that's a thousand times more impressive than beating a pacifist run by a few seconds.

 

No, I can't claim that I know what was really going on in people's heads. This is just my understanding, nothing more. Now that we have hundreds of insane slaughter maxes from j4rio, Ancalagon, Rizera, Killer5, Bloodite Krypto, etc I think it's clear that Okuplok wasn't a god or anything. But I can see how people could have been rather skeptical back then. That stuff was very new at the time.

 

Edited March 25, 2018 by Memfis

[Catpho]

Just now, Memfis said:

Extremely optimized uv-speeds became a standard many many years before your appearance. I don't know, you have very deep understanding of that stuff, so perhaps you can say that your demos are somehow much more impressive than what Adam Williamson and all these guys were doing 10 years before you. But I believe that most demo watchers won't see a big improvement compared to the classic Compet-n demos if they watch your speedruns. Your efforts weren't perceived as revolutionary by the public.

 

This is very different from Okuplok's situation. He improved from previous generations of players in the most spectacular way possible: by dominating hardcore slaughtermaps and making them look piss easy. For a commoner, that's a thousand times more impressive than beating a pacifist run by a few seconds.

 

No, I can't claim that I know what was really going on in people's heads. This is just my understanding, nothing more.

 

You should have added this line in your previous post imo, it lightens the tone.

[dew]

19 minutes ago, Memfis said:

This is very different from Okuplok's situation. He improved from previous generations of players in the most spectacular way possible: by dominating hardcore slaughtermaps and making them look piss easy. For a commoner, that's a thousand times more impressive than beating a pacifist run by a few seconds.

Oh fuck off. Your low key insults are starting to wear my patience down.

Edited March 25, 2018 by dew

[Memfis]

Hm, I tried to be civil and failed I guess. But why? Are you saying that short uv-speeds are just as marketable as ridiculously aggressive maxes on insanely hard slaughtermaps? Do we have a big audience full of people going nuts about that stuff? Perhaps movie runs are popular, especially the ZeroMaster ones, but what else? Am I wrong when I say that uv-speeds and pacifists get much less recognition and are not as spectacular in the views of the public? This is not about your skills or anything (you're VERY skilled), it's simply about what people watch, what impresses them more, and where improvements in playing skills look crazier.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Memfis

[Reisal]

I didn't realize how much a jerk okuplok was before he disappeared. This explains a lot from dew posted above, with the "jealousy" bullcrap card oku pulled (the worst possible retort) in response when somebody calls you out.

[Grain of Salt]

Whenever I see this thread title in my notifications it seems like someone calling out "Okuplok? Okuplok??" into the sky.

[rodster]

6 hours ago, dew said:

Basically it remains in the eye of the beholder whether okuplok cheated or not, because he was extremely unhelpful in dispelling the rumours. Of course if you hate the community and the people who run it in particular, it's quite clear where your opinion will stand.

I'd like to say a few notes on this. I've read the threads (at least the two major ones) and I tried to look from the perspective "what would I have done?". I think, Okuplok had only two Options:
 

1.) Defend yourself

2.) Retreat.

 

He tried to defend himself but quite a lot of people just jumped on the hate-wagon as it's usual (like everywhere in everything on this planet) and rushed him. He didn't get much support, therefore he did the only right thing and left this community.

[dew]

40 minutes ago, rodster said:

He tried to defend himself but quite a lot of people just jumped on the hate-wagon as it's usual (like everywhere in everything on this planet) and rushed him. He didn't get much support, therefore he did the only right thing and left this community.

He actually deleted his youtube account and covered his tracks before he decided to go back and defend himself with the zdoom demo. That reaction didn't fit right with many people. As Belial mentioned in one of the threads, a past great speedrunner DomRem also faced cheating allegations. In his case it was the presence of one-tic actions in his demos, which is improbable for a human being and indicative of slo-mo usage. DomRem simply provided a multitude of his failed runs which showed that he indeed posessed bionic fingers and one-tic actions were the norm for him.

 

And the community is far from heartless. When kimo xvirus 'fessed up to splicing a few of his runs, he was met with forgiveness and just the demos he reported were marked as TAS, so we're hardly talking about guillotine punishments here. Somewhat ironically, kimo was allegedly the person who made the jealousy image for okuplok, heh.

[loveless]

1 hour ago, Grain of Salt said:

Whenever I see this thread title in my notifications it seems like someone calling out "Okuplok? Okuplok??" into the sky.

  

He's coming back, you'll see.  

  

He went with my dad to go get that pack of cigarettes. 

[RedGyarados]

Oh there' s a huge history about him, didn't know lol. When I finished watching the run (yes, I saw it in one go) I started to read the comments, and some of those called that he used TAS for that run. Then I saw some Sunder runs and it was like watching a god playing (I really love big and grindy wads). So, is he still active? I mean, does he keep playing doom as speedrunner? And my main curiosity is, how MUCH does it take to learn the entire map, to learn where to infight, ammo management, and the most important, playing with such a pressure of getting hit after 2 hours run and dying, cause you have 5000 monster aiming at you almost all the time. That's the main reason im super surprised and impressed about that run lol. Thanks everyone for sharing opinion, such a good forum !! :) (and sorry for mt broken english, not my main language)

[j4rio]

7 hours ago, dew said:

Oh fuck off. Your low key insults are starting to wear my patience down.

 

Heh, he should have just upkey called you cockgurgling cumthrobber instead to win your heart. It's not that far-fetched to try and understand his point.

 

Personally, I've never made my mind completely. Trying sd20 the same way okuplok's run has been done was just an excercise in misery, just getting the starting room done without a hit had around 1/20 chance without any sort of skill involved, and that's merely negligible beginning of the run. Whatever, it's long gone past.

[PjSpartacus]

His Sunder map 6 still bothers me to this day. Don't understand how he can get hit 7-8 time in the opening 2 mins for the absolute min damage every time. But if you played a map hundreds of times I guess it's possible to get this lucky. 0xf00ba12 demonstrated it was certainly beatable but the damage taken was way more realistic. Also Killer5 came around and showed us some sick Reality runs on some slaughter maps so its certainly possible that okuplok was ahead of his time...

[PjSpartacus]

Well if you enjoyed his HolyHell run you will like this rare demo from a map equally as ridiculous. I'm pretty sure this was a TAS run because the map is borderline impossible...

oku2v31.zip

Okumap_110.zip

[tmorrow]

2 hours ago, PjSpartacus said:

Well if you enjoyed his HolyHell run you will like this rare demo from a map equally as ridiculous.

 

 

Hosted on doomedsda, my favourite demo site: http://doomedsda.us/wad2750.html

 

The demo you posted is an Azuruish TAS demo. As far as I know noone has posted a legit demo for this incredibly difficult map, not even Okuplok!