Doom with PBR materials

[Big Ol Billy]

This is cool but I came here expecting to see Doomguy and his monster buddies hanging out at one of hell's hippest dive bars

 

 

 

[wheresthebeef]

A Hellknight offered Doomguy beer and when he saw it was PBR he went on a killing rampage and opened a new portal to hell inside all their asses.

 

Textures with all the current tech applied to them always look so sexy to me.

Edited April 7, 2018 by wheresthebeef

[hardcore_gamer]

While I think it's awesome that Gzdoom (or is it Qzdoom now?) supports PBR, there is one massive problem with this kind of HD stuff for Doom: It just doesn't mix well with the sprites.

 

Having ultra realistic HD textures along side the normal enemy and weapon sprites looks terrible. And that isn't the only problem. The old school level design also looks baffling with such realistic textures. So in order for this to look good, you would need to remake pretty much everything monsters included, and then make brand new levels at which point you have pretty much an entire new game. Creating the textures is probably not that hard, but creating and animating all the monsters is a massive undertaking that many have tried and all have failed so far.

 

That said, I still think it's awesome we have pbr support now. I'm sure cool things can be done with it.

 

EDIT: Is there any documentation/tutorials already on how to put pbr materials into Doom? I already know what pbr is so that isn't the problem, but I don't know how to get them into the game.

 

EDIT 2: Never mind I think I figured it out it wasn't very hard actually.

Edited April 7, 2018 by hardcore_gamer

[Empyre]

I have an idea that would be such a huge project that nobody will probably ever do it, but it should be technically possible. Make sprites with 2x or 4x the resolution (8x if you are really a glutton for punishment) with 16 angles instead of only 8, and use ZScript or DECORATE to redefine the monsters with twice as many frames of animation. With double the angles and double the frames, you would have 4x as many sprites to make. Such a project would require a probably-prohibitive amount of work, but if done well, it could look amazing with these textures (if they are done well, too).

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Making monster sprites isn't that hard if you know what you are doing. It is just really time consuming and can get annoying as hell with complex sprites trying to keep them consistent.

 

At least now with better looking textures model rips won't look as out of place with similar quality textures around them.

[Stealth Frag]

1 hour ago, hardcore_gamer said:

Having ultra realistic HD textures along side the normal enemy and weapon sprites looks terrible.

 

I agree with you 100%.

49 minutes ago, Empyre said:

I have an idea that would be such a huge project that nobody will probably ever do it, but it should be technically possible. Make sprites with 2x or 4x the resolution (8x if you are really a glutton for punishment) with 16 angles instead of only 8, and use ZScript or DECORATE to redefine the monsters with twice as many frames of animation. With double the angles and double the frames, you would have 4x as many sprites to make. Such a project would require a probably-prohibitive amount of work, but if done well, it could look amazing with these textures (if they are done well, too).

I talk about technical problems here (you can see my 8x imp in action there, just bear in mind I'm not a animator and that terrible imp proof it xD )

 

[hardcore_gamer]

Another problem is that many of the textures in Doom just don't look any good when remade with higher detail. The startan textures have always been poorly designed in my opinion and just looks terrible even when remade in HD. Ugly designs won't look any better just because you remake them with higher detail. Some of the ugliest levels in the game are the ones where they create everything about out of startan.

 

EDIT: Actually never mind about what I said about understanding how to get these to work. I have been struggling for hours now and I still can't get this working :(

 

What exactly am I suppose to do? I have all the textures needed and I created a gldef file so what other steps are there?

Edited April 8, 2018 by hardcore_gamer

[Stealth Frag]

Just put it to folders - normal maps to normals, roughness maps to roughness e.t.c

Edited April 8, 2018 by Reinchard

[Stealth Frag]

Small update in first post.

[Teder]

@Reinchard hey you should make a tutorial how to make textures. You know video or screenshots how you make a texture step by step. For example you build a shape in zbrush, next draw a diffuse in PS or smth. I don't know do you bake it or not. I'm pretty sure that would help people to build texture for doom with pbr technology. Thanks to that we could play doom with full pbr texture much faster and people will have fun building new stuff.

 

By the way I'm courious how could looks like a sprite with pbr.

Fast filter for fun:

 

Edited April 8, 2018 by Teder

[hardcore_gamer]

You can also use substance designer which specializes in creating 3D PBR textures without the need for any modeling program whatsoever.

 

 

[Teder]

@hardcore_gamer agreed - substance looks also very cool.

[hardcore_gamer]

The only downside of substance designer is that you can't really use it (as far as I am aware) to create very complex things like say a human face. So things like the marble textures with the evil demon faces in them would require a sculpting app probably. It's also not possible to create stuff in other programs like photoshop and them import it into designer since it's purely node based, though you can export stuff from designer and into other apps.

[Stealth Frag]

Thanks, but I prefer Quixel. Here's little ingame goodness:

[hardcore_gamer]

Nice screens!

 

That said, I also feel they pretty much confirm what I was saying earlier, about how old school level design just doesn't look that good in HD. The area looks bland and empty, much more so than with the default assets. That said, this is only really a problem for vanilla maps. For custom maps and wads that use more modern design, I can see how HD textures like this could look extremely good.

 

And as for this Quixel program you speak off, from what little I have seen on it after youtubing it I don't think it even really makes sense to compare it to Substance designer. Quixel looks like it's intended to paint directly on models which makes it more similar to substance painter than designer. Designer isn't used to paint on models, it's a program that's designed for creating procedural tileable textures, which is why I recommended it. But whatever floats your boat.

Edited April 8, 2018 by hardcore_gamer

[snapshot]

Never made any Materials myself, I Imagine it's hard lol, all I could make was Normal maps (retopology thingy), usually I just grab bunch of roughness, gloss, AO and normal maps from textures.com, Quixel sounds fun :) screenshots look nice.

Edited April 8, 2018 by dmg_64

[Teder]

@Reinchard so you use zbrush to make a model, and than you export it to quixel?

Edited April 8, 2018 by Teder

[Stealth Frag]

@Teder Maya, Zbrush, Quixel - that's my workflow

Edited April 8, 2018 by Reinchard

[hardcore_gamer]

17 minutes ago, Teder said:

@Reinchard so you use zbrush to make a model, and than you export it to quixel?

 

From what I understand Quixel isn't a standalone program but a add-on for photoshop. You make the model in a modeling package of your choice and then use quixel so that you can use photoshop's tools to create/paint normal maps unto the model itself directly in real time. To be honest I'm not really sure how this quixel program is suppose to be better than something like substance painter since the later is a standalone program specifically designed for this purpose where as quixel just seems like a hacky way to use photoshop as a model painting tool. It also doesn't help that photoshop is subscription based where as SP can be bought once and owned forever.

 

One of the major advantages of Substance designer (not substance painter, which is a related but still completely separate program) is that it's purely node based, which means you can quickly throw together complex 3D textures that contain all the needed PBR maps in a fairly short period of time. This is a million times faster than using an actual 3D modeling app. Granted, that it's weakness is that there are certain kinds of things you can't really create without a traditional modeling app, such as human faces/specific organic shapes, but consider the fact that this PBR texture was made in substance designer with no 3D modeling whatsoever merely by using it's 2D image node based workflow:

 

 

That would have taken fairly large amount of time to do via traditional 3D modeling and painting, but in SD it can be done in only a portion of the time without any modeling.

 

But like I said, whatever floats your boat.

Edited April 8, 2018 by hardcore_gamer

[Teder]

@Reinchard I hope you make a quick tutorial for us with simple box and texture.

[hardcore_gamer]

1 minute ago, Teder said:

@Reinchard I hope you make a quick tutorial for us with simple box and texture.

 

PBR isn't actually as complex as it looks. All you really need is the actual colormap (that is pretty much just the painted texture) and some grayscale maps that tell the engine how the texture reacts to lightning, which parts look metallic and shinny/rough etc. The hardest part is creating the normal map, but even that isn't so difficult with the right software. Programs like designer even allow you to do all of this without even needing to create any models.

Edited April 8, 2018 by hardcore_gamer

[Teder]

@hardcore_gamer awesome picture!

That looks also cool.

 

 

Edited April 8, 2018 by Teder

[Tea Monster]

On 07/04/2018 at 3:29 PM, Big Ol Billy said:

This is cool but I came here expecting to see Doomguy and his monster buddies hanging out at one of hell's hippest dive bars

 

 

Quote

 

Of course they drink this in Hell. They have real beer in Heaven though.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Tea Monster

[[McD] James]

PBR is definitely one of the better cheap, American beers that I like. I'd take it any day over Budweiser.

[Stealth Frag]

I tried American beer only once in my life. Long story short - never again ;)

BTW - update on first page and screenies from progress on brown1:

 

(love that surreal feeling when natural lighting came acros pixelated sprites)

[wheresthebeef]

I'd love to see PBR applied to low resolution textures

[[McD] James]

22 hours ago, Reinchard said:

I tried American beer only once in my life. Long story short - never again ;)

 

 

America's commercial beers are watery and boring, but there's a lot of really good American craft beers that are worth exploring. 

[Stealth Frag]

7 minutes ago, Ajora said:

 

America's commercial beers are watery and boring, but there's a lot of really good American craft beers that are worth exploring. 

Cause I'm a UFC fan I've been curious how Bud Light does taste like.

Anyway  here's some progress  (more on first page):

[hoover1979]

Looks downright AMAZING! Keep it up.

[Stealth Frag]

I don't slack off