Intolerance - limit removing level

[xdarkmasterx]

the demons took over a water treatment plant and filled it with poison you must stop them immediately or u can kiss your tapwater goodbye

 

download https://www.dropbox.com/s/hz19m6ceitygecn/intolv6.wad?dl=0

 

OLD VERSIONS:

 

V1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/m3sxfxfl36yvude/intol.wad?dl=0

 

V2: https://www.dropbox.com/s/q30cwyggxchtfrr/intolv2.wad?dl=0

 

V3 https://www.dropbox.com/s/p5dijg95ju9al47/intolv3.wad?dl=0

 

V4 https://www.dropbox.com/s/5sadgzgzx5uk3e9/intolV4.wad?dl=0

 

V5 https://www.dropbox.com/s/53cf6ii1wh4rh24/intolv5.wad?dl=0

 

 

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Edited June 24, 2018 by xdarkmasterx

[Pegleg]

8 minutes ago, xdarkmasterx said:

the demons took over a water treatment plant and filled it with poison you must stop them immediately or u can kiss your tapwater goodbye

Interesting premise. The demons are getting kind of indirect in their attacks, though, poisoning tap water to kill people instead of just doing it directly.

 

Back to the level, the screenshots look good. The level looks interesting from them. And it doesn't look like you just put as many <INSERT HIGHER LEVEL MONSTER HERE> into 1 room as possible, which is a plus from my point of view.

[Degree23]

A few comments, played on UV:

 

- Ammo is very tight. You have choices on where you can go in this level, and you can easily run out of ammo. (I even used the extra Bullets in the secret at the start) Health is also very tight.

- What is the point of the blue door? There is a tiny amount of ammunition and a monster and that's it.

- The yellow key ambush is very harsh because you can get to there without ever finding the SSG, and trying to kill an Arch Vile with nothing more than a SG/CG is not fun.

- There could do with being an extra box of Rockets beyond the yellow door as you easily have to use all the ones provided to deal with the Revenant ambush.

- At the Cyberdemon fight there should be teleporters to take you back up to the platform if you fall off.

[xdarkmasterx]

-1 it was on purpose, level was designed to have little ammo and no health on UV, on lower difficulties is more and lower health enemies

- Box of ammo is valuable on UV, but on lower difficulty is more items in there

-fight was tested with only default weapons, SSG is just a bonus. also, on lower difficulty is no archvile

-there more rockets lower than UV, it was intended to run out of rockets in that encounter on UV (point of that room is the armor, not rocket)

-I rather not

 

any way greetings

[Degree23]

5 minutes ago, xdarkmasterx said:

-I rather not

 

It's considered very poor level design to have pits or areas from which you can't get back out, so you really should put teleporters in.

[mun]

9 minutes ago, Degree23 said:

 

It's considered very poor level design to have pits or areas from which you can't get back out, so you really should put teleporters in.

I remember there was a conversation on DW about punishing the player for falling off pits and some people in the thread were (apparently) advocating for inescapable pits IIRC. (I don't remember the thread title, sorry.)

Edited April 7, 2018 by mun

[baja blast rd.]

20 minutes ago, Degree23 said:

It's considered very poor level design to have pits or areas from which you can't get back out, so you really should put teleporters in.

 

I actually expected to see softlocking pits after reading your post, which are certainly bad. But these are just run-of-the-mill 20%-damaging death pits.

 

You are spreading very misleading advice here. Some people really hate death pits, some people like it or even really like it. Inescapable death pits are certainly not 'considered very poor level design' in an objective sense. I think OP 'really should' do whatever the hell he wants.

Edited April 7, 2018 by rdwpa

[printz]

Shouldn't it be intolerance?

[xdarkmasterx]

oh accident :(

[baja blast rd.]

Fun map. Here is a UV playthrough video. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Commentary:

 

- Pretty damn fun, I'd say; it's challenging, feels well balanced for a 'find a good route' sort of plan. Absence of health is a plus because no-health maps are surprisingly rare but quite fun. Personally I'm fond of maps where some routes make it possible to run out of ammo, too -- it makes 'finding a proper approach' a part of the gameplay, which I enjoy. 

 

- Awkward to move around in -- that railing is a significant % of the bridges outside, and in the secret behind the crate, there is odd geometry that is essentially an infinite elastic collision generator. 

 

- The map flows awkwardly, due to superfluous stuff. Why that blue key room with the shotgunner behind it and just a bit of ammo? A couple of the secrets are a bit pointless feeling too -- I think there's a point where a map can have too many secrets for its size that don't really have much substance to them, and I'd say this is there. The water secret in the first room has almost a farcically puny reward. You don't need to kill the cyb so the map is more generous with ammo than it might seem at first blush. The blur sphere isn't so useful because the hitscanner presence isn't overbearing, and the bullet box could have easily been in the room behind the blue key door to give it more of a purpose.

 

- The dropdown fight for the SSG and blue key is too easy relative to the other important fights in the map. Would get rid of some of the ammo tax imps and perhaps have 1-2 more revs instead, just something to make the fight 'look' more imposing even if it isn't really made that much harder. 

 

- The secret teleporter to the BFG being W1 makes sense I suppose given the effect the surplus cells would have on the rest of the action, but there is nothing to actually convey that, so it felt like a cheap patch to that problem and it was irritating to find out the first time. I think it's worth it to put effort into conveying such things more straightforwardly. For example you could raise a barrier in front of the teleporter after the player goes there. 

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by rdwpa

[SleepyVelvet]

here's a 48 minute fda lol: noisy_intol.zip (prb+ cl9 uv nosound)

 

i think it was fun.  that's why i played it for 47 mintes.  i like the options and stuff.

[xdarkmasterx]

ok thank you all for replies new version was created with changes:

 

Spoiler

1- cyberdemon impossible to run past now

2- health and armour on easy/medium now behind blue door

3- teleporter in water secret leads to fire cave secret so you don't need to go down twice, removed radsuit on UV

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by xdarkmasterx

[SleepyVelvet]

11 minutes ago, xdarkmasterx said:

ok thank you all for replies new version was created with changes:

I think you messed up the player start in testing.  you start on the cyberdemon walkway.

[xdarkmasterx]

my mistake uploaded correct version

 

[Denim Destroyer]

I tried UV but got destroyed so ended up playing on HMP. Map is alright with no major issues. I appreciate the difficulty and the lack of resources, the level was hard but didn't feel like it was unfair. I like the long corridor of Hell Knights where the red key is located. However, I feel that the plasma rifle kind of made the hell knights useless since I was able to tear through the revenants and mancubus. I don't have a critique for that but someone else might. Also wasn't a fan of having the yellow key being located in the corner of the room.

Aesthetic wise I feel that level was decent, reminds me of the 90s or mid 2000s level. One thing I would have done different would have been to recess the lights that are in pic below. Would of added some depth to the walls and made the hall look better. I am a fan of the stairs that are in the second pic yet I feel that they server no purpose other than to make that part of the hall less flat. 

As mentioned above I feel that there are a few too many secrets for a level this size. Three of your secrets bother me: I don't really care for secrets that are in behind spawn doors since they are easily missed (in your case that is even more likely since you can't get back to spawn unless you find the yellow key secret), the hell knight secret is a little less obvious since you can get up near from where they shoot plus the fact you can go right around both of those platforms with them on it made me think that was how I was supposed to get up there, the last secret to bother me was the secret where you had to fall off the bridge that secret didn't really seem necessary to me. The blue key in my opinion shouldn't be placed in the level, it existing in the level just seems to be there to pad out the length. If you want to make the level then making the yellow or red keys harder to get would be a better approach.

Overall I liked this level but I feel like it could use some improvements. You have a few too many secrets for a level of this size plus the player can get stuck in the red key room buy falling off the platform, nothing wrong with that in of itself but combined with what looks like an area you can explore spells a recipe for a needless death. Despite all that I still find the level okay due to the hard but fair difficulty.

 

Spoiler

Edited April 7, 2018 by Classicgamer6

[xdarkmasterx]

UPDATE new version

 

changes:

 

Spoiler

1- texture fixes and alignment

2- blue key area now has has toxic water, timed teleporter and new cage with revenants

3- new area added to make outdoor less bare and hold ammo to compensate additional revnant

4- plasma ammo at red key fight removed on difficulties lower than UV (no cyberdemon, no need), eight shells on medium and box of shells and box of ammo on easy instead

 

Edited April 8, 2018 by xdarkmasterx

[xdarkmasterx]

UPDATE 2 sorry, in uploading V3 version much were errors made, new V3 link added

[xdarkmasterx]

V4 released

 

Spoiler

- small texture change

-useless/harmful invisibility powerup replaced with a rocket

 

[xdarkmasterx]

V5

Spoiler

platform rim reduced size for ease of movement

-more texture fixes

 

[printz]

21 hours ago, Pegleg said:

Interesting premise. The demons are getting kind of indirect in their attacks, though, poisoning tap water to kill people instead of just doing it directly.

This reminds me of a quest in Diablo 1, where "the mere presence of the demons caused the water to become tainted". Cool concept.

[xdarkmasterx]

well i cant take the credits for that idea this map is inspired by that brown things that come out of your tap when forget you to clean it XD

[xdarkmasterx]

new version uploaded and hte video

[xdarkmasterx]

sorry about the old video it had desync new video uploaded

[pcorf]

Should be named "Who Stole The Health Part II"

 

Just need to use the music from twzone2.wad MAP23. Nah, Message To The Archvile is fine song indeed.

 

The demo is great, you are such a skilled player unlike me. It takes a skilled player to avoid been punished in a map where all the health has been stolen.

Edited June 24, 2018 by pcorf