DOOM: Annihilation - the new Doom movie

[Chezza]

I don't see why dialogue is considered an integral part of all characters within a media rich platform. A silent bad arse being can be very expressive just like in Doom 2016. Besides, that can keep the gender a mystery although the sheer size and brutality would suggest a roided Male.

Edited April 30, 2018 by Chezza

[dew]

2 hours ago, DooM_RO said:

We're going off topic here so if you really care you can find articles dating to 2014 in less than a minute.

If you don't want to go offtopic, stop bringing up increasingly tangetial arguments. It's you who tried to establish the larger cultural war scope.

 

2 hours ago, DooM_RO said:

But the Doomguy is such an important part of the game, especially in the new one. He is literally the face of the games, just like Ripley is the face of Aliens...I don't care that he doesn't speak, to me he is just like Gordon Freeman. Imagine a Half-Life movie without Gordon...

 

6 hours ago, StevenC21 said:

That's not Doom. That'd be like having a Wolfenstein game where you play Mrs. Blazkowics; it's not the game. Doom Slayer always has been, and always will be, a man.

Is the protagonist of Doom iconic? Yes, in the vagueness. It's funny to call him the face of the game when his face constantly changes - the Doomguy from the HUD is very obviously not the various Doomguys on the covers and the new game makes considerable effort to not reveal the Slayer's face at all. The Slayer (notice the new official gender neutral callsign) obviously cannot be the Doomguy from the OG's backstory and id's claim that he's the same guy and all Doom content is canon is a blatant retcon in the most cheeky, wink wink nudge nudge way. That without a doubt establishes that the creators themselves consider Doomguy's identity maleablemalleable. If your headcanon revolves around controlling manhunk John Stalvern on his quest to prove his father wrong, that's just you, I'm kicking Hell's ass myself with this almost-realistic avatar. Just a few more thousands sit-ups and I'll rock that midriff as well.

 

So we have this vague, unspecified white male protagonist, but that white maleness is crucial and untouchable and Doom would be ruined without it? Particularly in the new game, where he's white because we see it for like 10 seconds in the intro, and he's a man because he grunts manly? What a joke. I don't even want a Doom Slayer gal in the movie as a personal preference (actually, I don't want the movie), but it's no fucking religion to me. Particularly when the authors of the new game make it a point to mock gendergenre stereotypes. Doom constantly changes, the protagonist constantly changes, the story is a complete joke by design, Carmack made the OG a pioneering (and unparalelled) effort in modding... but don't touch the penis!

 

Hell hath no fury as a gamer scorned.

Edited April 30, 2018 by dew

[Jaxxoon R]

This massive glob of poetic waxing is honestly laughable and reads more like trolling than an actual attempt at communication. Maybe someone should report you to the moderation staff.

[mrthejoshmon]

I'll take the bait, fuck it why not?

 

First of all, Doom Slayer is referred to, almost right away, as "him" by Olivia, how "gender neutral".

 

Secondly:

That's a surprisingly visible face to say they "tried to hide it", oh and would you look it's a man.

 

Thirdly, whether you like it or not, Doomguy is iconic in his appearances as a male muscle bound marine, just as iconic (maybe even more so) as Duke Nukem. Every iteration of Doomguy has been a male marine because that is what Doomguy is.

 

You could argue that the Doom 3 protagonist isn't exactly like Doomguy therefore I am wrong, but in case you didn't notice he's a still a male marine and is dressed in very similar armour. Doomguy has a very specific look of a male marine in a torso heavy set of green armour, that is his image and that is just how it is.

 

If a character is going to be changed in any way then the base attributes should be kept the same so they at least look similar and/or related, this is something Doom has done well through the armour design and character design for every Doomguy iteration (even Doom 3's). Doomguy's base attributes are a male marine in chest heavy green armour, he'll be universally recognisable because of the generic (yet somehow unique enough to be recognisable) design of his character.

 

The design is not vague, it's generic, a template with a set style rather than a blank slate.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

You forgot the most important ones in-game. Doomguy's face is shown on the hud the entire game, He is drawn as a man in Doom2's title screen and the daisy is dead screen and makes manly gasps as he humps walls looking for secret. all of those and more sabotage the "we wanted the hero to be the player" at least in the gender department. unless doomgal is actually a transgender.

Edited April 30, 2018 by Pegg

[dew]

41 minutes ago, mrthejoshmon said:

First of all, Doom Slayer is referred to, almost right away, as "him" by Olivia, how "gender neutral".

I'm not arguing the Doom Slayer is a woman, that would be preposterous. But the name "Doom Slayer" is gender neutral, blame your own language if you have to. A woman heroine wouldn't be able to continue as "Doomguy", but we're a tiny retcon away from making the "Doom Slayer" a title bestowed on any worthy avatar, not just that one guy.

 

56 minutes ago, mrthejoshmon said:

That's a surprisingly visible face to say they "tried to hide it", oh and would you look it's a man.

...lol

 

As for the rest, you're worshipping the thinnest mythos imaginable. I for one don't give a single shit about the Doomguy persona as long as I get to destroy Hell at a fast pace. Actually, being a part of the MP community has made me even far more detached from the laughably shallow lore. And Doom 3 was a failure because it banked on style over substance - and the protagonist's gender contributes nothing to substance at all. But hey, if you need your idols, don't let me smash them for you!

[mrthejoshmon]

I'm not worshipping anything, I'm making the argument that they already have a cast set in stone for the main character even with the title changed.

 

Id has written themselves into an area where Doom Slayer is just a better sounding name for Doomguy (because dialogue referred to him as Doomguy it'd sound too ridiculous, even for Doom 2016), they have not changed what the protagonist is but merely his name as the character is just the same guy, therefore I believe the title of Doom Slayer is not a "title worthy of any avatar" except the green armoured marine himself.

 

It's less about "worship" of the 2deep lore, it is more about "worshipping" the design of the main character, who despite multiple redesign choices, still has the same iconic base appearance of the green marine.

 

EDIT: Looking back at the first response, I did misinterpret your sentiment about Doom Slayer in 2016 at first (my bad), but my stance on the character design consistency remains.

Edited April 30, 2018 by mrthejoshmon

[seed]

8 hours ago, DooM_RO said:

Imagine a Half-Life movie without Gordon...

 

Thing is, that could work really easy. After all we also have Adrian Shephard and Barney Calhoun as protagonists in 2 HL games so why wouldn't a movie that's different from the original and only set in its universe work?

[SuperCupcakeTactics]

Mix all the Doom things together!

 

I want the movie to be Doomguy as macho dude with big guns petting his pet rabbit and getting in trouble during that riot like the Doom 1 manual. He gets sent to the UAC (maybe hires a caretaker for Daisy) and is stationed there and learns more of the crazy demon cult stuff going on there for a while being skeptical and curious before all Hell breaks loose and then he has to kill everything with only his mobile Daisy bunny PDA stream keeping his sanity in check, enough to have a few existential rants. After he blows up the Hell portal he finds out that Earth was invaded by demons using the spaceships and that his pet rabbit Daisy was murdered by the demons. This makes Doomguy go on a demon slaughter rampage until he meets up with Doomgirl and after calming down they find a teleporter back to Earth and have to save Earth in ways similar to that of the Doom novels, like that part that a lot of people know where they gather inside of a Mormon church to fight the demons with those survivors. Covering themselves in lemon juice to sneak past the hordes of zombie troopers to the Hell portal teleporter at the UAC headquarters. They go off into Hell and wreck stuff up, spouting lines from the Doom Comic. In the end they both punch Satan/Baphoment/The Icon of Sin in the face like a million times before blowing up the evil brains with rocket launchers. They share a tender moment and kiss amongst the exploding Icon of Sin and the death throes it emits before teleporting out. Epilogue is basically the ending messages of Doom 2 and Doomguy and Doomgirl go into the pet store together to find a new pet bunny rabbit after burying Daisy o>. Fin.

[Koko Ricky]

I never saw him as macho in the classic games. He came off to me as stoic and serious, which I guess is how they explicitly made him in Doom 3.

[Bauul]

On 4/28/2018 at 3:34 PM, Flesh420 said:

And no, women in (real world) combat doesn't make sense.  Women make babies and care for them, they also cannot carry a 150+ male to safety. As a male, you're supposed to protect your woman.  That's biology.  It's actually something women should be proud of—my wife understands this, do you?

 

I'm happy to wait and see about the movie (if it's good it's good, if it's not it's not, but no movie will ever impact anyone's enjoyment of the proper canonical game series), but this paragraph just makes me so sad.  What ever happened to treating people as individuals and not making conclusions about them based on stereotypes?

 

It's true, most women couldn't carry a 150lbs+ person to safety.  But most men couldn't either.  So what do you do?  You find the specific people who can.  Will most be male?  Yes.  Will automatically none of them be female?  Of course not. 

 

The logic is fundamentally flawed.  It's basically saying because most people who do activity X are type A, that means only type A people should be allowed to do activity X.  And obviously that makes no sense.

[DooM_RO]

1 hour ago, GoatLord said:

I never saw him as macho in the classic games. He came off to me as stoic and serious, which I guess is how they explicitly made him in Doom 3.

 

Those are two things that make men macho.

 

[dew]

5 hours ago, GoatLord said:

I never saw him as macho in the classic games. He came off to me as stoic and serious, which I guess is how they explicitly made him in Doom 3.

 

4 hours ago, DooM_RO said:

Those are two things that make men macho.

Wrong.

 

In the OG the protagonist has no lines and tackles the invading demon army, but that doesn't make him stoic. In fact, the immensely more popular interpretation is that Doomguy is burning with inner rage that would eclipse a thousand suns, to wax poetic some more. He rips and tears demon guts with bare hands, he grins with malicious glee upon picking up new tools of killing, he gets visibly angry when taking damage. In the new game the Slayer shows contempt to stoical rationalizations of Samuel Hayden, because his rage against the enemy steers his moral compass true.

 

The macho caricature, most notable in Brutal Doom, was spawned by the comic where the Doomguy is the direct opposite of both stoic and serious. Most macho types are portrayed as wisecracking, infinitely cool dudebros. According to Doom_RO, Doomguy cannot be macho!

[Reaper8888]

On 4/28/2018 at 7:55 AM, DooM_RO said:

 

I know that Romero said the Doom marine is "supposed to be you" but that's not how people see him at all. People clearly see him as an established character with a fixed personality. Say what you will about the 2005 version but Sarge and Reaper both have personalities that could fit that mould.

 

From the cover art, to the status bar face, to the E3 end screen, to the fan art, to the Doom 3 and 2016 version of the character...all are basically variations of the same masculine archetype...

 

 

I've always preferred the "marine is the player" concept over the idea of the marine being a more unique individual. I feel that this is how Doom should be. It's not someone else fighting evil, it's you. I feel that Reaper in the 2005 movie was a good balance of generic and unique, which maintained this well enough, but in general this is a problem when Doom is made into anything other than a FPS game.

[Deleted_Account]

I hope they utilize practical effects for the new Doom movie with some CGI enhancements. I was watching Predator the other day and really like the presence and the weight that it had on-screen, especially during the final fight between Arnie and the Predator. 

[KVELLER]

54 minutes ago, Ex Oblivione said:

I hope they utilize practical effects for the new Doom movie with some CGI enhancements. I was watching Predator the other day and really like the presence and the weight that it had on-screen, especially during the final fight between Arnie and the Predator. 

 

As much as I'd like that, it's pretty unlikely to happen. Some bad CGI is much cheaper than paying another actor (not to mention all of the make up and whatnot).

[[McD] James]

1 hour ago, Ex Oblivione said:

I hope they utilize practical effects for the new Doom movie with some CGI enhancements. I was watching Predator the other day and really like the presence and the weight that it had on-screen, especially during the final fight between Arnie and the Predator. 

 

Predator is an amazing movie. Too bad all of its sequels are tat. 

[rodster]

On ‎29‎.‎04‎.‎2018 at 6:14 AM, Jaxxoon R said:

Doomguy gets sucked into the real world and has to fight through the hell that is retail work in this heart-warming comedy fit for the whole family. Fortunately the young, father-estranged, target-audience-relatable Billy is there to keep his new friend from causing too much damage! Can Doomguy find a way back home? Or will the FBI send him to a laboratory far away for the rest of his days?

LMFAO, you put my Feelings about this into words. Thanks! Best description I've read.

[scalliano]

10 hours ago, Ex Oblivione said:

I hope they utilize practical effects for the new Doom movie with some CGI enhancements. I was watching Predator the other day and really like the presence and the weight that it had on-screen, especially during the final fight between Arnie and the Predator. 

Actually, this is one thing I have to give the OG Doom movie credit for - they only resorted to CG when necessary. Almost everything was done with practical effects outside of the Pinky demon. Hopefully they stick to that principle in the new one.

 

As a footnote to the diversity thing:

 

Male = Doomguy

Female = Crash

Black = Phobos

 

All three are already canon(ish).

[StevenC21]

@Hellish Godzilla I notice one thing across nearly all of those changes. They were in the monsters. That's the only change I am ok with. And anyways, the Doom movie was extremely unpopular, so I don't think its a good argument to bring up that change. Maybe we should continue this over PM?

[IMX]

There's like 3-4 pages worth of foolishness and nobody actually questioned the "sources" of Dread Central?

[Shin Godzilla]

@StevenC21 For now, I'm content to wait for more details about the film. Maybe we'll get back into this if a female Doom Marine is confirmed. I've appreciated the discussion, though. It's given us some issues to think about, even if they end up not pertaining to the new movie.

[scalliano]

I'm still gonna watch it, regardless. I enjoyed the OG Doom movie. Crap films and games can still be fun.

[Deleted_Account]

2 hours ago, scalliano said:

I'm still gonna watch it, regardless. I enjoyed the OG Doom movie. Crap films and games can still be fun.

Portman to Pinky: I'm taking a shit, you fucking gimp.

 

lmao.

[Knee Deep In The Fan]

Looking forward to whatever they have in store. Although I think the best option for a Doom movie would be to make it entirely in 1st person, like Hardcore Henry was. Also if they get Mick Gordon to do the soundtrack it will make the movie even better.

[Koko Ricky]

90 minutes of first person perspective completely eliminates any possibility of carefully composed shots. You end up with an innovative technique, but no memorable images because everything is constantly moving.

Edited May 3, 2018 by GoatLord

[Jaxxoon R]

Hopefully, if Samuel Hayden makes an appearance in this film, Darin De Paul will return to voice him. His voice is such a big part of the character, it'd sound off if it were anyone else.

[Visplane Overflow!]

Well that is a good news, hope the invasion/bad event because of the hell, not stupid doom 2005 genetic error or whatsoever.

[Aquila Chrysaetos]

19 hours ago, GoatLord said:

90 minutes of first person perspective completely eliminates any possibility of carefully composed shots. You end up with an innovative technique, but no memorable images because everything is constantly moving.

Hmm, Hardcore Henry seemed to be rather successful utilizing such a perspective.

In fact, that exact film managed to eek out quite the personality from Henry based solely on his silent interactions with others and memories as they/it are/is revealed throughout the run.

Though, I am probably biased in favor of that film because it's one of my favorites ever made.

[CARRiON]

What kind of man likes cute wittle bunnies? Huh?

 

Checkmate DOOM incel manists.