Strange linedef behavior

[spd7693]

Hello, everybody! 

So far I had nothing to post here, but this time I really do. Recently I started making a Wad. I already posted my first map in another thread, but I'll anyways put it here too. Warning! Low quality! 

 

 

So, what's the matter? 

 

I fixed the problem of the peep hole in the blue key area as monsters were able to shoot through it, as well as the cyberdemon always teleported last in. Still I'm trying to make it better as well. The problem is this - I've made three linedefs with the action W1 floor raise to lowest ceiling. They raise the sector which blocks off the teleporter, which is the one the linedefs are closing. As you see in the map, the switch behind the mancubus in the area must unblock the teleporter. However, after the switch is flipped I can cross the second linedef with the same tag and action and the teleporter will close off again! This is not supposed to happen. So, the question is how to make the linedefs exclude each other? Like when one W1 floor raise to lowest ceiling is activated, the others with the same tag and action should have no action any longer. Like that I can't seal myself in the area and never come to the end. Except if I make the switch repetitive, but this will look very much like... builder work. 

[Vorpal]

That's just how the doom engine works. W1 actions are specific to the linedef, not the tag - that is to say the ability to activate the linedef is disabled after crossing any linedefs with that tag. The tag is never disabled and you can do varying things with it like have a sector raise, be usable as a lift, and be a teleport destination all at once. If you only want a sector to move once, don't point multiple W1 linedefs at it.

[spd7693]

So I've screwed the things up then. Same things occurs in my 5th map. I've made platforms that raise in the way they raise in Containment Area and The Factory, but since they criss-cross in order to make the room doable both ways, I needed to make two of them activate from two different angles. One can be avoided this way, but for the other I'll need to think it out. I can redo that area and make the moving platforms work a bit better. 

 

I've edited the map a bit as well and there are a bit more flaws I fixed. Like the way the platform the red key is on goes to the ground. Now with two moves and two linedefs - just like the ones I explained - both the switch and the platform now disappear into the poison and make the player take damage. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by spd7693

[spd7693]

I have more questions about another thing I've done. This is from my newest map that I just started. Well, here it is: 

 

 

The hexagon in the middle has to work the following way: On the northeastern and the Southwestern side it has to act as a door. But on the northwestern and the southeastern side it's supposed to act as an elevator. This way I want to create a crossing. The problem is that the "elevator" works, but the "door" doesn't. All linedefs face the correct way as you see. How am I supposed to fix this? I'll try a bit more anyways. 

 

Where have we seen such things: Doom 2 map 15 Industrial Zone - the path to the blue door and the regular exit - in Memento Mori map 31 in a crossing of a certain place and in one more map, I forgot if it was from the Master Levels or in Memento Mori again. (As well as in Eternal Doom map 4, but it's not a good example.) However, in all of them the area is a square (or sort of one). Here I have a hexagon. Is it possible anyways? 

 

[Empyre]

I have more questions about another thing I've done. This is from my newest map that I just started. Well, here it is: 

 

 

The hexagon in the middle has to work the following way: On the northeastern and the Southwestern side it has to act as a door. But on the northwestern and the southeastern side it's supposed to act as an elevator. This way I want to create a crossing. The problem is that the "elevator" works, but the "door" doesn't. All linedefs face the correct way as you see. How am I supposed to fix this? I'll try a bit more anyways. 

 

Where have we seen such things: Doom 2 map 15 Industrial Zone - the path to the blue door and the regular exit - in Memento Mori map 31 in a crossing of a certain place and in one more map, I forgot if it was from the Master Levels or in Memento Mori again. (As well as in Eternal Doom map 4, but it's not a good example.) However, in all of them the area is a square (or sort of one). Here I have a hexagon. Is it possible anyways? 

 

I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work. Upload your wad, or an excerpt with just the relevant parts. You can upload it right here in a post in the forum. Then, we can find out what is going wrong.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Empyre
Edited to add quote.

[spd7693]

There came more problems, so I'm trying to save it separately and post it here, but somehow another problem occurred. Now I can't save the nodes of the map. So, the map is ready to be zipped, but there are no nodes. Why could have that happened? Have I made it too big? I remember that while creating it I touched the top end of the Doom Builder grid. And I'm not sure if it's OK like that. 

Edited April 30, 2018 by spd7693

[spd7693]

Fixed the problem with the nodes, so here is the map. I hope you can help. Map 6 - Still Unnamed.zip

Edited April 30, 2018 by spd7693
Forgot to attach the Zip file

[riderr3]

You'll have to make small gaps in sectors 3 and 1 to make the door moving up


Otherwise you can use W1 ceiling raise action, and it works even without gaps

[spd7693]

Sectors 3 and 1... You mean the northwestern and the southeastern side? Also I need repetitive, not single actions. Otherwise the crossing wouldn't be as authentic, no matter if you try walking it both ways only once. But thanks for the advice, I just work better with directions, not sector numbers. 

[Empyre]

Those gaps are needed because the door will try to open up to the lowest ceiling. The gaps make sure that the lowest ceiling is high enough that the door can open. If you make those gaps only 1 unit thick, the player will not notice them.

 

This basic idea is clever enough that I might steal borrow it for some map I make in the future.

[spd7693]

@Empyre You wouldn't really "steal" it because like I said we already have seen such a thing in Doom before, but with square sectors. Even in iD Doom - Industrial Zone, on the way to the blue door and the regular exit. 

 

I figured the gaps will be needed, but still didn't understand - should I make them where the sector acts as a door or where it acts as an elevator? 

Edited April 30, 2018 by spd7693
Grammar mistake

[Empyre]

1 hour ago, spd7693 said:

@Empyre You wouldn't really "steal" it because like I said we already have seen such a thing in Doom before, but with square sectors. Even in iD Doom - Industrial Zone, on the way to the blue door and the regular exit. 

 

I figured the gaps will be needed, but still didn't understand - should I make them where the sector acts as a door or where it acts as an elevator? 

Add the gaps to the sides that act like a lift, with the ceilings of the gaps the same height as the ceilings of the sides that use the sector as a door. That way, all the ceilings next to the sector will be the same height, so it will be able to open like a door.

[spd7693]

Same map, another problem: 

 

 

 

 

This cacodemon sees the player... 

 

 

 

...Whenever (s)he gets to the western end of the box maze. This is not supposed to happen. The cacodemon is supposed to see the player only if (s)he gets around this lava pit and gets towards the other parts of the demolished street. I've made him deaf by default and tried placing him everywhere in the pit. Every time he would see the player. While if I put him with his back turned, he'll never see the player which also is not supposed to happen. How to fix it? 

 

Here's the map: Map 6 - Still Unnamed.zip (Warning - not finished yet.) 

 

PS: Will someone tell me via PM how to hide my content? 

[Aquila Chrysaetos]

Probably the best way to make it so that caco doesn't see the player too early is to hide him in a rather deep pit and when the player drops onto the street, to have a linedef action rise the pit, revealing the caco.

 

Also, the little eye symbol on the task bar of the post draft window is the "spoiler" button. You can place your images in it and when you post, it'll have that "reveal hidden contents" tab that will reveal whatever you put in it (text, images, videos, etc). It's useful for condensing your posts.

[Empyre]

When a monster has the Ambush flag (Deaf is a bad name for it), it will have a 360 degree field of view, seeing the player in any direction no matter what direction it is facing. Aquila Chrysaetos's pit idea is a good idea.

 

Another idea would to use sound-blocking lines instead of the Ambush (Deaf) flag. Remember, to block sound, there needs to be not one but two sound-blocking lines along any possible path that sound could travel. In this case, make the diagonal line at the edge of the lava sound-blocking and also the nearby vertical line at the exit from the box maze. If you then uncheck the "Deaf" flag, the cacodemon should only see you when you expect it to. If there is any way for sound to go around via either of the openings I see at the north wall of the maze, those need sound blocking lines too, or the caco will hear you. As far as the monsters are concerned, it doesn't matter how far away you are or how many corners the sound has to go around. If there is a path for the sound, they can hear you.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Empyre
added the last 2 sentences

[Edward850]

2 hours ago, Empyre said:

When a monster has the Ambush flag (Deaf is a bad name for it), it will have a 360 degree field of view, seeing the player in any direction no matter what direction it is facing.

Only after they are alerted by the player, otherwise they still initially have 90 degree sight. Once alerted by sound they remain asleep, but with a 360 view and will awaken once they sight the player. The name deaf came from the fact that they didn't do anything until they sighted the player, unlike other monsters.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Edward850

[spd7693]

Hello again, long time not seen, but anyways. Before making new maps I decided to edit some of my old, noticing some things that aren't that well in the otherwise well made maps. Again I'm returning you to Homerun which now has an improved look. Here comes a part of the base where the yellow key is. And where I have the strange linedef problem: 

 

 

At first I decided to make the highlighted linedefs have the LITERED1 texture. Here is how they look in View Mode: 

 

However, while running the game with GLBoom+ there is no texture, but a nasty Hall-Of-Mirrors effect. Same goes with the LITEBLU4, LITEGRN1 and LITEYEL1 textures, but not with LITE3 texture (which I've placed now). Why is this happening, is this supposed to and how could I fix it? Please help.  

 

PS: Just now I see I may fix the outlook of one of the windows. It may look better with something else. 

[scifista42]

LITERED1, LITEGRN1 and LITEYEL1 are not stock textures. Something must be wrong with the way you include custom textures.

[spd7693]

 

Here are the textures. I haven't added them, they were in my Doom Builder file by default. I have seen them as well in different wads - TNT and MM especially. So I don't think they're custom at all. Or are they? 

Is the problem because they were added in TNT Evilution, but I'm playing the wad in Doom 2 properties? 

[Empyre]

1 hour ago, spd7693 said:

Is the problem because they were added in TNT Evilution, but I'm playing the wad in Doom 2 properties? 

Definitely. If you are using TNT to make the map, you must also use TNT to play it.

[scifista42]

Looks like you include both TNT and Plutonia as resources. The abovementioned LITE textures exist only in TNT and not in Plutonia. Texture definitions are non-cumulative in classic ports, so if Plutonia gets loaded after TNT, all TNT texture definitions will be lost - that is, TNT-specific textures will not work.

Edited September 18, 2018 by scifista42

[spd7693]

This means I need to make TNT override Plutonia for the textures. I do like some textures from there and I feel they're worth using. So, next time I'll try this. But then again I'll have TNT sky and I don't really want that. 

 

Spoiler

After all, TNT except for Team TNT can also stand for trotile, so for a while when I played the wad I was thinking the makers meant there was trotile in those crates. Or at least they were meant for having TNT inside. But this doesn't mean I'll extensively use them, just sometimes when I feel like it. Mostly it will be the aforementioned -LITE textures. 

 

[scifista42]

Well, instead of including mutually incompatible resources, you can always try the "normal" way to use custom textures: Put the textures directly into your wad via a wad content editor like SLADE3.

[spd7693]

21 minutes ago, scifista42 said:

SLADE3

 

 

Is this some sort of an add-on or is it a different map editor? 

[Empyre]

10 minutes ago, spd7693 said:

 

 

Is this some sort of an add-on or is it a different map editor? 

It is a wad editor, for editing things other than maps inside a wad, and it does it very well. It does also have its own map editor, too, but the Doom Builder family is more familiar to me.

 

To be safe, never have your wad open in Doom Builder and Slade at the same time. Close one editor before opening the other. They say there is a way to do it safely, but I don't trust it.

[spd7693]

Something weird with these stairs is happening after I imported textures with Slade. Still took them from other wads, but I had to import them with Slade anyways. Can somebody tell me why these stairs now are goofing? 

 

 

Sending the map as well. I already posted it in Wads&Mods but I made a few changes due to different Hall Of Mirrors effects. (Thus I used Slade to add missing textures.) 

 

Edit: I just want to ask this because I am planning to use the same texture (SW1GSTON/SW2GSTON) in a different map. Here I think the texture had to be GSTONE1. I set it to that now and it's not goofing. 

Map 15 - The Monastery.rar

[spd7693]

And can somebody tell me how to fix that ugly gap in the sky? 

 

[Gez]

Your texture troubles are probably caused by a wrong PNAMES. The way textures work is that they're made of patches, and they refer to these patches by a number rather than by its name, and the PNAMES lump contains the table giving the list of patch names in order. If the PNAMES lump isn't kept in sync, bad things can happen to textures, such as using the wrong patches.

[spd7693]

More noob or semi-noob stuff. I have a problem with action 37 - W1 Floor Lower To Lowest Floor (changes texture). This is from my map 30. Here is what I have: 

 

 

 

The small 1x1 square is lowered to the desired height and is a damaging floor. I'm planning something similar to Requiem 23 in terms of a boss fight, but maybe in different tuning, I'll decide on it later depending on how difficult the map will turn out to be. 

 

 

The marked sector is the wall that needs to lower to reveal the Icon Of Sin. Both this sector and the rock sector around it (may change the texture later) are marked with the same tag and attached to the same linedef with the aforementioned action. 

 

What is happening? Once I trigger the linedef(s) (8 linedefs because I use an Icon Of Sin marble floorpad to make this wall lower and it's composed of 4 64x64 sectors like it has to be) first time the floor lowers to the desired height, but the texture doesn't change even despite I added an adjacent sector with the desired texture it has to change to. It changes only once I cross another linedef and only once the wall is lowered to the height of 0 the damaging floor should have once the Icon is revealed. 

 

I want the floor around the wall and the elevation you fight the Icon from to change texture as soon as it's lowered, not as soon as the wall is lowered. Is it possible in a way? 

[spd7693]

Seems like I had to put the map as well, so I'm placing it. Map 30 - Crime And Punishment.rar I simply can't edit the fight without the floor effect. Again - I want to see why it doesn't change the texture and become damaging right away. 

[spd7693]

You know, I like using those doors that open downwards instead of upwards. My next map makes no exception to this. 

 

 

Why am I posting it though? In the area there is a baron, guarding the door and later an arch-vile that guards the key. I killed the baron with the rocket launcher in front of the door. Or so it seems. 

 

When the arch-vile became mobile and could move wherever she wanted, she resurrected the baron. Keep in mind monsters can't open this door! (Action 62 - SR Lift lower wait raise.) But I heard the baron get resurrected and feared it might have become a ghost. 

Well... Instead, the monster turned out resurrected... inside the ceiling and when I was about to come out, thinking the arch-vile had resurrected the baron through the door - it's 16 units wide, so arch-viles can resurrect through it. However, the resurrected baron simply lowered with the elevator. And was taking direct damage from both the RL and the SSG. Keep in mind ghosts are on. (And I play on -complevel 2 anyways.) 

 

So... why did the baron get resurected inside the ceiling then? It lowered with the door all the way down. When I stepped into it, it couldn't rise to the top. Why does it happen and how?