Favorite Source Port? (Multiple Choice Poll)

[læmænt]

Ct_red_pants said:

Zdoom is for all intent and preposes the successor to boom

um, NO

[darknation]

Ct_red_pants said:

Well, since Team TNT was at one point supported by id, and there sorce port boom, and Zdoom is for all intent and preposes the successor to boom, I’d say Zdoom. and it look’s like the Marjory agree.

No no no no no no no.

[Captain Red]

to quote from this very thread:
Saturday 20 March 1999
ZDoom is officially endorsed by TeamTNT
TeamTNT hereby officially endorses use of the ZDoom engine, coded by Randy Heit. It supports Boom-based wads very well, has a large number of other enhancements, runs in Windows and DOS, has Internet play and good sound and many other features. The ZETH editor, a modified version of the DETH editor widely used at TeamTNT, supports the ZDoom features.
TeamTNT created Boom as a stable base for the editing community to use for new levels as well as for other coders to use as a base for their engines. ZDoom has used many if not most of the ideas, enhancements and bug fixes that we put into Boom and reflects exactly what we had in mind. Since we will no longer be enhancing Boom, it is with pleasure that we endorse ZDoom as the heir apparent of the DOOM "Source Ports" for general use. See other entries in today's news for details of how we'll be using it.

Thanks to Randy Heit for a job well done, and to all the other folks he credits with ideas, code and techniques he has incorporated.

Zdoom is not the offcial successor to boom, but it dose pretty much everything boom dose, with some nice extres. I do understand your argument on Prbooms behalf, but IMO that's what zdoom is to me.

[mmnpsrsoskl]

That problem with the HOM, it appears after I did a GLBSP to a PWAD, it happened to be when I first downloaded DOME1M1, in the mess, as soon as you opened the door, there was a big patch of it on the ground. Otherwise the map fucking ruled using JDoom. Good work Archie!

[LorD BaZTArD]

Uh, fine, Esayeek, just trying to be helpful. No need to be friggin rude.

Get the new version, the 35fps limit is removed, and is much better.
(My Opinion mind you) Also, I recommend using GLBsp as Spike said.

[IMJack]

Ct_red_pants
Well, since Team TNT was at one point supported by id, and there sorce port boom, and Zdoom is for all intent and preposes the successor to boom, I’d say Zdoom. and it look’s like the Marjory agree.

The Marjory may agree, but the rest of the herbs don't think so. ;)

Personally, I don't care. Whatever floats your boat.

[Captain Red]

Ah, but the question isn't “what source port do you prefer?”, it’s “what source port would id choose?” I I believe Zdoom to be the most “id like”.

[esayeek]

LorD BaZTArD said:

Uh, fine, Esayeek, just trying to be helpful. No need to be friggin rude.

Get the new version, the 35fps limit is removed, and is much better.
(My Opinion mind you) Also, I recommend using GLBsp as Spike said.

ok so they aren't that big, but they're still there. i tested it and it looks like in most cases its resolved by using a good glnodes builder.

there is no removing the 35fps limit. if a doom port is rendering more than 35fps, then it's just rendering the same frames more than once: the entire game engine runs at 35 tics/second and only updates what to draw 35 times a second.

[Arioch]

esayeek said:

framerate issues

xnemesis: in fact, we ditched the original green&red bfg balls because they looked like Christmas. :)

ACTUAL ROMERO QUOTE

[Arioch]

esayeek said:

ok so they aren't that big, but they're still there. i tested it and it looks like in most cases its resolved by using a good glnodes builder.

there is no removing the 35fps limit. if a doom port is rendering more than 35fps, then it's just rendering the same frames more than once: the entire game engine runs at 35 tics/second and only updates what to draw 35 times a second.

That's the entire fucking point - we shouldn't have to add manual steps to get all our downloaded levels looking all pretty - JDoom should do the GLBSPing for us.

AND OH AND BY THE FUCKING WAY WHICH STUPID GODDAMN SUBDIR AM I SUPPOSED TO BE STICKING THE PWADS IN AND WHY THE HELL ARE THEY DIFFERENT FROM THE DIRECTORY FOR THE IWADS AND WHY OH WHY AREN'T THE GWA FILES SUPPOSED TO BE IN THE SAME DIRECTORY AND WHY IS JDOOM SO GAY NOW

[Little Faith]

The Beta BFG: A cross between a plasma gun and a SSG.

[Arioch]

Ct_red_pants said:

Zdoom is not the offcial successor to boom, but it dose pretty much everything boom dose, with some nice extres. I do understand your argument on Prbooms behalf, but IMO that's what zdoom is to me.

it is with pleasure that we endorse ZDoom as the heir apparent of the DOOM "Source Ports" for general use

Eh?

[esayeek]

Arioch said:

That's the entire fucking point - we shouldn't have to add manual steps to get all our downloaded levels looking all pretty - JDoom should do the GLBSPing for us.

AND OH AND BY THE FUCKING WAY WHICH STUPID GODDAMN SUBDIR AM I SUPPOSED TO BE STICKING THE PWADS IN AND WHY THE HELL ARE THEY DIFFERENT FROM THE DIRECTORY FOR THE IWADS AND WHY OH WHY AREN'T THE GWA FILES SUPPOSED TO BE IN THE SAME DIRECTORY AND WHY IS JDOOM SO GAY NOW

i dont use pwads with jdoom. too hard to figure out.

[Woolie Wool]

ZDOOM has no equal.

[Woolie Wool]

Arioch said:

That's the entire fucking point - we shouldn't have to add manual steps to get all our downloaded levels looking all pretty - JDoom should do the GLBSPing for us.

AND OH AND BY THE FUCKING WAY WHICH STUPID GODDAMN SUBDIR AM I SUPPOSED TO BE STICKING THE PWADS IN AND WHY THE HELL ARE THEY DIFFERENT FROM THE DIRECTORY FOR THE IWADS AND WHY OH WHY AREN'T THE GWA FILES SUPPOSED TO BE IN THE SAME DIRECTORY AND WHY IS JDOOM SO GAY NOW

I put the PWADS in the same directory of the IWADs and I configured JDOOM to work like that. But WHY DOES HAVING MORE THAN EIGHT MODELS On THE SCREEN SLOW DOWN THE FRAMERATE ON MY 933-MHZ SYSTEM TO FIVE FRAMES PER SECOND DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE PUNY POLYGON COUNTS AND WHY ON EARTH DOES MY DESKTOP RESIZE TO 320x200 WITH SIXTEEN COLORS WHENEVER I LEAVE THE BLASTED GAME AND WHY, OH WHY DOES JDOOM CRASH SPONTANEOUSLY FOR NO WRETCHED REASON EVERY FIFTEEN MINUTES?!?!

[Spike]

Woolie Wool said:

Ranty Ranty Rant-Rant

Huh?
I'm using a P2-350 with 88mb ram and a 12mb Voodoo2... i don't have any of the above mentioned problems. Sure, i get the occasional slowdowns with enemies, but we're talking about 10-20 demons on screen at once. These can be disabled, too.

If you're getting pissed off with the way you load pwads, download the ddutils.exe file. Dlaunch.exe is extremely handy for loading stuff up.

Spike's Jdoom Usage
a)Load up dlaunch.exe
b)Add my config file (video settings, etc)
c)Pick an IWAD and PWADS to load
d)Launch the game

No probs whatsoever.

[LorD BaZTArD]

You don't even have to do that, Kicks.exe manages it just fine. Put the wads where ever the fuck you want, then tell kickstart where to find it. Personally, I put all pwads into the doomsday\data directory. I put the iwads in the data\jdoom directory and point the launcher to find iwads there.

Of course, I did have a problem when I tried Glacial.wad, since it has it's own high-res textures, I didn't want to copy over mine, I solved that buy creating a folder called glacial and pointed kicks to the definition file in the glacial folder. It would be much better if textures. ded files and anything else could be packed into the wad.

Now, as for what I meant by the 35fps limit, is that the highest framerate on any jport I could achieve was 35, because as you said it was a limit of the doom engine. In a news update before he released 1.7.0 skyjake said he had removed the limit, but the world was still moving at the original speed. I can only assume he solved that before he released 1.7.0. I don't know though. My framerate in Jdoom is now hitting the 200 mark quite regularly. I'm also waiting for better models, but I fear I may be waiting for a while. (a) I can't model for shit. (b) The current modeller's are doing this as a side job.

I can play without the models though.

[Spike]

Baztard - ded files CAN be packed into a wad ;

1)Add the contents of all the required ded files into a a single ded file, call it whatever you want.
2)Call up wintex, select the wadfile you want to add the ded to, then select lumps, and add a new entry called DD_DEFNS
3)Load the aforementioned ded file into the lump.
4)Hey presto! The doomsday engine should load up the DD_DEFNS ded information over any other ded files in the defs\jdoom folder.

[Fredrik]

Definitely PrBoom. Not only does it contain all of BOOM, but it's also for Windows and with several important enhancements, while still being completely true to the original DOOM. Just needs a couple of minor bugs (such as the sound problems) sorted out.

Its GL mode is also superior to that of any other port, BTW.

[Oxygenic]

Hello there, I just wanted to hear, which one of the windows 9x source ports is the best and which one you would recommend a newbie to use.

I've only played with two different sourceports (zDoom and Legacy). Legacy worked just fine, zDoom didn't work at all, because I don't have the required md2 files :(
Anyway, I could use a little help here......

Thanks for now.....
-Oxygenic

[Biffy]

There must be some mistake, zdoom does not use md2 files at all. Do you mean zdoomgl? You can get a fairly recent version of zdoom, see zdoom.notgod.com/ftp and download the beta33.

[Oxygenic]

of course I was talking about zDoomGL, why else would I use that "engine" ??? :P
I need the md2 files for zDoomGl........

-Oxygenic

[timmie]

Oxygenic said:

Hello there, I just wanted to hear, which one of the windows 9x source ports is the best and which one you would recommend a newbie to use.

I've only played with two different sourceports (zDoom and Legacy). Legacy worked just fine, zDoom didn't work at all, because I don't have the required md2 files :(
Anyway, I could use a little help here......

Thanks for now.....
-Oxygenic

delete the file "md2.ini" and start zdoomgl with the "-nomd2" command and you should be good to go. I'll be making the new zdoomgl a lot more tolerant of missing md2 models when I get around to implementing md2 models :)

[Draconio]

ZDoomGL is pretty worthless, if you want GL Doom then JDoom is better.

Non-GL ZDoom is good, but there is a good deal of annoyance to be had due to the split between the (stable) 1.22 and the (rather buggy) 1.23 beta. I don't use this port as much as I used to.

Personally I think PrBoom is the best port, because it has less unneccessary BS, but it's not the most newbie friendly.

My advice would be to stick with Legacy.

[myk]

I recommend using the original DOS executables, since they run perfectly on Win9x, unless you have a sound card that isn't SB16 combatible. But do try out all the source engines you can if you haven't. People can tell you what they like, but only by trying different things can you really learn what suits you most and why.

[Murdoch]

myk said:

I recommend using the original DOS executables, since they run perfectly on Win9x

Just a pity they can't run most modern levels worth a damn, either for lacking some features or crashing due to innummerable idiotic bugs.

Oxygenic, you really should have at least three. Eternity is the best for general purpose Dooming, playing the original Doom levels and "vanilla" (ie: no port specific features used) levels. It's reliable and stable. More levels are starting to use Legacy, so have that on hand. ZDoom is required by lots of WADs so have the latest beta handy. If you've got a decent system with a 3d card, JDoom is the most reliable and best looking of all the 3D card ports.

[myk]

JoelMurdoch said:

Just a pity they can't run most modern levels worth a damn, either for lacking some features or crashing due to innummerable idiotic bugs.

What? Duh, he obviously won't be using doom2 to run zdoom WAD! Bugs? Running a plain doom WAD the original is not more likely to crash than most source engines, that may refuse to run if there's, like, a patch missing or something.

Plus, most engines can't run maps made specifically for other engines anyway, so... Obviously the best bet is using whatever the map was made for, unless it's obvious that is not the case, like when the TXT says VPOs are common, which could warrant using a "limitless" engine for an old map.

And that coming from a coder... meh, one would expect better. Don't worry, it's not like everyone will suddenly start using doom and doom2 right now, "ports" already have their established place. I guess this happens to people that code or edit more than they play.

[Murdoch]

What? Duh, he obviously won't be using doom2 to run zdoom WAD!

What? Pay attention myk. The guy asked "which one of the windows 9x source ports is the best and which one you would recommend a newbie to use."

In the pre-source port days, I used to help dozens of people with their addon problems. Unless you had a good grasp of the theories behind them, DeuSF and Dehacked were very difficult to use. Once Boom came out, the queries have slown down to near zero.

And don't be so naive as to assume people know about ports. Say someone downloaded a ZDoom WAD who wasn't familiar with the community, and they hadn't played Doom for a few years or have just picked up Doom from a bargain bin. They probably would skim the top of the text file to get the level number, load it up, and then get pissed off when the Hexen map format crashed the engine.

Bugs? Running a plain doom WAD the original is not more likely to crash than most source engines

Bullshit. Load up Requiem in Eternity. Skip to level 12. Save. Works well don't it? Repeat with the old 1.9 exe. See the difference? Now, repeat the above in Doom II MAP30, but this time reload the savegame. Odds are, in the old 1.9 engine you'll see the famous "venetian blind" crash, whereas Eternity works fine. MAP12 of Requiem is complex but I've seen more complex work OK in the 1.9 engine, and MAP30 one of the most stupidly simple maps in existance.

Lee Killough once said to me that original engines are so full of bugs "it's a wonder they worked at all". I'll wager he and the TeamTNT coders spent almost more time fixing bugs than they did coding new stuff during the Boom and MBF development phase.

Plus, most engines can't run maps made specifically for other engines anyway

No shit sherlock. All I said was Eternity was best for general purpose Dooming, and that having ZDoom and Legacy on hand was a good idea due to their common use.

And that coming from a coder... meh, one would expect better.

What?

I guess this happens to people that code or edit more than they play.

Now you've really lost me. Coders have far more insight into the problems of the original engine than "civilians" so I really don't get your angle.

So, to clarify my answer to the original question, I highly recommend the use of Eternity for "newbies".

[myk]

Heh, wow, some great examples you gave with that obscure savegame bug no one but a coder knows about. Do you use savegames very often? Note that your evidence changes nothing. I never said doom and doom2 never ever crash, or anything.

I respect Lee Killough a lot for what he's done. He may have told you whatever... but your theory seems to be based more on this and on looking at the code more than on experience.

Furthermore, you're the one that tried to diss my quite valid post. It's not like it was a "ports suck, use the original." On the other hand, it even encouraged him to try things out. Yours was, though. Are you in charge of "Biz" in the eternity project or something? Sure sounds like you're selling a product.

You're misled about the original engine in use if you believe it's so unstable. Also, people who don't use it are missing stuff... things I think make this game my favorite computer game.

[DOOM Anomaly]

This ol' slow-goer sticks with Legacy, and Zdoom, and ZdoonGl, and Jdoom, and Boom, and Eternity, and Vanilla Doom..and so on...Anyways my meaningless point is that I find all these sorce parts and others good enough for me, but personally I use Legacy the most, its easy for me, it doesn't any big words, like "the" 'n "and"