Favorite Source Port? (Multiple Choice Poll)

[DevastatioN]

Lag Sux:
I ping like 70ms and still find it horrible, most people warp around, ive heard of this problem from others as well.

Aiming sux- No, im not refering to mosuelook, overall aim and how it works with the lag is really annoying to use.

ZDooM still does mess up Map1

I dont beleive that the ports keep the orig DooM feel actually, might be a personal preferance thing tho, DooM2.exe was played for a reason a decade ago and still is today :)

It could use improvements, but the game made it hit the way it was, so I gues sit doesn't really need improvements, except for the Indigo / Green lag and recording lag I suppose.

[boris]

Heh, do you really think id had made Doom the way doom.exe is, if they had the capabilites to make it for example like ZDoom?

[DevastatioN]

dont know, but if they made it like ZDoom would it have been a big of a hit as it was? prolly not, if they had the capability to make it better, u woulda had Quake and Quake2 a few years earlier... thats all heh

[Cyb]

I like zdoom because, mainly at the time I started using it (like 3+ years ago) it had the most features avaliable. It was the first port with scripting and all the like, and personally I can't stand working with the original exe or even Boom any more because it's just too limiting (kudos to those who can tho). On top of that Randy is amazingly receptive to comments and suggestions and bug reports, and it's the most stable and quickest port I have come across, plus it supports Heretic and Hexen.

the only things I don't like about it are some of the old doom limits it carries, such as in ability to add new monsters without replacing old ones, same deal with weapons, etc etc.

Also I'm not quite sure why people seem to think ACS isn't powerful, in fact it's quite powerful. Of course you're only able to alter the level itself (and not play around with sprites, menus and all of that stuff), but thus far I have not run into any problems with figuring out how to do something. Granted it's a lot easier to write stuff if you know C/++ (which I do), so perhaps people's perceptions of ACS are altered by the fact that they aren't programmers. When I take a look at some of my earlier zdoom maps (before I knew C), the scripting is extremly simplistic by comparison to some of the stuff I do today.

On the subject of Legacy, I really like a lot of the features it carries. on paper anyway. Stuff like true 3d, translucent water and so on are all things I'd love to see in zdoom (hehe), but every time I play a legacy map with some of these new features it segfaults every six seconds, which tends to grate on one's nerves.

also while we're on the subject, I'd like to state that doom/2.exe is crap. It's buggy (and I'm not talking about limits like visplanes and hom with too many sidedefs in view), the resolution is atrocious (seriously, what other games do you play in 320x200, how people aren't blind from it is beyond me) and everything is hard coded. everything. it's fucking awful. raven finally generalized stuff with hexen, but standard doom is a perfect example of what not to do if you ever decide to make your own game engine. had id made something like hexen instead of doom (speaking of the engine here, not the game content) I wager doom would have been more popular, plus given it's popularity at the time, I imagine it would have pushed fps games further along than it did since with hexen you can lay out a storyline and do a ton of stuff not possible with original doom. tho I suppose id's affinity for simplistic games with a little story as possible may have shone through anyway. ah well.

edit: goddamn that was a long post, speaking of going blind hehe

[Graf Zahl]

Cyb said:

the only things I don't like about it are some of the old doom limits it carries, such as in ability to add new monsters without replacing old ones, same deal with weapons, etc etc.

Yeah, that's a real shame. It would be so easy to raise those limits even without completely rewriting the game. Adding just a few (or better a lot ;-) ) dummy objects would help a lot...

[Fredrik]

Graf Zahl said:

Adding just a few (or better a lot ;-) ) dummy objects would help a lot...

Probably would, but I think Randy is more interested in setting up a comprehensive extension system than implementing a couple of hacks like that. Though there's a fair bunch of hacks in ZDoom already, so you can't be sure.

[NiGHTMARE]

Well, you already can have a load of non-replacing enemies and weapons in ZDoom, as long as you don't mind them having Heretic/Hexen behaviour.

[Naked Snake]

Eternity!

Pros :

- Great, friendly coding team (Quasar, SoM, Fraggle*, Julian*, and a few more AFAIK)
- ROR!!!!!
- Very fucking stable
- Very compatible
- Deh / bex support
- Fast
- Easy to use
- Console
- Well documented

Cons

- No GL version (not a big con, I could give a damn less)
- No netcode
- No jumping (another minor con, I really don't care about jumping at all)

* I don't think Fraggle is official on the team, and I'm not sure about Julian, but I DO know that they have helped with Eternity. Heh...fraggle + friendly :-P

EDGE

Pros

- DDF (simple, easy to learn, powerful)
- ROR
- Swimmable water
- RTS scripting system
- Boom support

Cons

- Slow and unoptomized
- No deh / bex support
- No netcode
- Moving feels like the player has only one leg

[deathbringer]

Maybe its my 2000mhz, 256megs of ram and 64meg geforce 4, but EDGE has never seemed slow to me XD

Well it is slow when youre 'outside' a thin extrafloor, but when you step under it it goes back to normal speed, which is quite a wierd bug, but oh well, thin extrafloors are pretty useless anyway, unless you want to have skylights that look like they have 'glass' in them

Oh, and the garden path level of bughunt 2 crashes it in GL mode, thats thats probably cause its like a mile-long open area with a million enemies in..

[Manc]

DevastatioN said:

Lag Sux:
I ping like 70ms and still find it horrible, most people warp around, ive heard of this problem from others as well.

Really? What port is this? If I play something like Skull Tag (.94c, unoptimized netcode based off of csDoom), I get an avg ping of 85 ms and i feel no lag at all. Of course, in every port's case it all depends on the server (where it's located, connection speed, computer speed).

DevastatioN said:

Aiming sux- No, im not refering to mosuelook, overall aim and how it works with the lag is really annoying to use.

ZDooM still does mess up Map1

You like auto-aim. You can turn that on you know. And quite frankly, I don't see how it messes it up. I mean, gn0 you can't use bugs from the original in your 1337 strategies! You'll be ok. Move beyond map01...

DevastatioN said:

I dont beleive that the ports keep the orig DooM feel actually, might be a personal preferance thing tho, DooM2.exe was played for a reason a decade ago and still is today :)

Yeah it was. You know why? Because it was all that was out there. Had Doom been like ZDoom, then that's what people would have played a decade ago. Just because it was the defacto engine back then doesn't mean that it can't/shouldn't/won't be improved upon now that the capability is there.

You keep referring to lag but you still haven't said what port you're using. If it's ZDooM, then in part I feel your pain.

I use ZDoomGL for most everything, unless a specific mod requires a specific port. I like to play around with JDooM's model stuff, but I have a feeling I'll no longer need to once there's at least basic md2 support in zdoomgl (or something better, who knows what he has cookin' up). The only thing I WOULDN'T use ZDoomGL for is multiplayer. IF it even has it in there it's probably like ZDoom, which unfortunately fails it. And since I don't play ZDaemon, looks like I'll have to wait for Skull Tag, which should be arriving soon. Skull Tag will basically be ZDoom+Good Multiplayer+423452366236 more features than ZDaemon. The only thing it'd be lacking in its initial release is GL. And while that isn't necessary in Doom, it's a nice feature nonetheless.

And since I'm not a mapper, all those other scripting features don't mean much to me other than people being able to make great levels/mods for ME to enjoy! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*ahem*

[Manc]

DevastatioN said:

dont know, but if they made it like ZDoom would it have been a big of a hit as it was? prolly not, if they had the capability to make it better, u woulda had Quake and Quake2 a few years earlier... thats all heh

BTW just because something has mouselook and jump doesn't make it like Quake. I really hate when people say that. I don't know if you're necessarily implying that here but it reminds me of such things. I think that features that got introduced in the quake series should be thought of as GOOD FEATURES, and as such belong in a GOOD GAME. So, in case you couldn't tell, I'm all for mlook, jump, and all that great goodness (and where's crouch damnit >:D)


I apologize for the double post.

[NiGHTMARE]

If mouselook and jumping make a game into Quake, then every FPS (and a few non-FPS) made since Quake (and even a few games before it - such as Ultima Underworld 1 & 2 and System Shock - because they have jumping and mouselook) are, in fact, Quake. That's despite having completely different levels, music, sound effects, enemies, weapons, textures, storylines, code, etc, etc, etc.

The only thing in existence which simultaenously isn't and is Quake is Valve's Deathmatch Classic add-on for Half-life.

[myk]

Mancubus II said:
BTW just because something has mouselook and jump doesn't make it like Quake. [...] I think that features that got introduced in the quake series should be thought of as GOOD FEATURES, and as such belong in a GOOD GAME.

That's the point in saying they make it "Quake." They were made popular by Quake. Actually we could call it "Duke" too (but not Heretic, as a keyboard only freelook isn't really much of a factor), but whatever, Quake is more fitting because it introduces more 3D aspects and is also more closely related to DOOM as a supposed inheritor. But indeed mouselook makes profound alterations in play that are shared by all the games that use it, so in that sense they are certainly Quakish, or can be called Quake. Calling a certain trend after the name of what made it popular is nothing unusual, of course. As for games that are only marginally related, who cares, this is about DOOM, source mods, Quake, and a number of FPS that are relatively similar. Adding and argument with redundant semi-related information is pretty useless.

The reason newer FPSs (or source mods) are called Quake is to say that they are different (in respects they all share; freelook, enhanced 3D features, added realism and more options) as opposed to DOOMs simplicity (in the restrictions of its components, editability, play modes and movement.) Whether to you this or that is cool or it sucks doesn't matter, the thing is calling things by their name, and if you call, let's say, ZDoom "DOOM," expect someone to call it "Quake" when they see all the Quake-like features it has. All people have to do to have their things called according to their name is just call them what they are:

Me: Hey, what are you playing?
Dude: DOOM II!
Me: Yeah, tell me exactly...
Dude: Give me a minute and I'll join a server...
Me: Ah, so that's...
Dude: This is CSDoom, a source port by some Russian guy.
Me: Oh, so you're playing CSDoom running DOOM II, cool...
Dude: Right...

I'm talking about people who say "it's still DOOM" In such cases I'm usually like "yeah, it's uh... DOOM, but it's still different, so in many ways it's not DOOM." Actually, along the same lines, many source mods are different from each other and serve different editing and playing purposes, and it's totally sensible to tell them appart, be it positively or negatively or whatever.

DOOM and DOOM II are specific gaming packages that id Software produced. You can add stuff to them (PWADs, source mods and whatnot,) but undeniably the add-ons produce changes and they are not necessaritly part of the game, they are so only in an accessory way.

[Captain Red]

myk said:
I'm talking about people who say "it's still DOOM" In such cases I'm usually like "yeah, it's uh... DOOM, but it's still different, so in many ways it's not DOOM." Actually, along the same lines, many source mods are different from each other and serve different editing and playing purposes, and it's totally sensible to tell them appart, be it positively or negatively or whatever.

DOOM and DOOM II are specific gaming packages that id Software produced. You can add stuff to them (PWADs, source mods and whatnot,) but undeniably the add-ons produce changes and they are not necessaritly part of the game, they are so only in an accessory way.

It is still relative. If doom to you is running around dark corridors and shooting demons with shotguns and rocket launchers then zdoom is just a user made patch for doom.exe that adds extra features.

But if doom to you wall running, low-res graphics, and all the other doom.exe "quirks" then yes, zdoom and jdoom are different games.

[DevastatioN]

DooM to me is high skilled, perfect movement and aim needing deathmatch... with all options and glitches needed to be precise to win, and play, the original style in which it was meant to be played over that high skilled LAN deathmatch, an equal game.
Mouselook + Jumping dont make Deathmatch harder in any kind of way, and doesn't add really anything to it.
I have a hard time high / low res will ever change the real outcome of a high skilled game.

[Graf Zahl]

DevastatioN said:

...in which it was meant to be played...

Somehow I doubt that very much... ;-)

[NiGHTMARE]

DevastatioN said:

and play, the original style in which it was meant to be played over that high skilled LAN deathmatch, an equal game.

If you want to play only in the style Doom was originally meant to be played, then don't play Deathmatch or co-op. Multi-player was tacked on as an afterthought.

[Captain Red]

DevastatioN said:
...the original style in which it was meant to be played over that high skilled LAN deathmatch...

Firstly, doom didn't even have multiplayer to begin with (added in later version) and secondly I know for a fact that John Romero himself uses legacy with mouse look and jumping.

[DevastatioN]

the original style in which it was meant to be played over that high skilled LAN deathmatch...

For those of u who couldn't read that right, ill rephrase it "the way LAN Deathmatch was meant to be played"

[DevastatioN]

*Read farther postsu p the list*

Iuse... ZDaemon, ZDooM, CSDoom, Legacy, dont like any of them really much.

"Move beyond Map1"
I play almost any map there btw

[NiGHTMARE]

DevastatioN said:

the way LAN Deathmatch was meant to be played

In that case, you'd better make sure it's lagged to hell, because LAN's where s***e back when Doom came out =P

[myk]

NiGHTMARE said:
If you want to play only in the style Doom was originally meant to be played, then don't play Deathmatch or co-op. Multi-player was tacked on as an afterthought.

If that is so, then how come the DOOM Bible even describes distinct player characters? DeathMatch, though, did develop later, apparently (in respect to Cooperative mode, I mean,) but...

Ct_red_pants said:
Firstly, doom didn't even have multiplayer to begin with (added in later version)

...multiplayer was present and functional when the game was released.

[DevastatioN]

Nightmare: U must have played Indigo all your life on LAN when the Green computer was horrible ;)

Even back from 1995-1997 LAN was good quality heh

[Graf Zahl]

DevastatioN said:

Even back from 1995-1997 LAN was good quality heh

Doom was released in 1993 and I can clearly remember when I first played it on multiplayer (around spring 1994). The LANs at that time were a complete mess and screwed up more often than not (at least for normal PC's). Even an internet connection today is more reliable.

[Lethal_Chupacabra]

Topic

[Torn]

Uhm, there is nothing you can call "best source port", cause they are good to different things.

[Dunbar]

Do you have any idea what flame war you have just ignited? Everyone here likes a different source port! There'll be mass chaos and an eventual post helling for the arguing that will occur here!

So for my answer I way that you should download every port and play every wad. That way, you're playing all the doom you can.

I hope this doesn't turn into a big argument.

[Amaster]

Doom95

No seriously, go browse the ports section and try a few fro yourself, to see whatyou like. If you must know though, some of the more popular ones are:

Zdoom
JDoom
Legacy
Prboom

[Vile]

If people were serious enough about this then a flamewar would result, as the title is best source port but people would just put down their favorite port... then misunderstanding starts... war was beginning...

Anyway, I like different ports because of the different kinds of support they offer. My favorite overall, especially recently, has been Zdoom, especially because it has a large number of pwads and projects made exclusively for it. Prboom is nice for its compatibility with the original executable, which makes demo recording with it more desirable. I used to like Jdoom a lot, but the only thing I would use it for nowadays is the Doom 64 TC (quite a compelling reason to hold onto it).

[dr_st]

I hate ZDOOM and the problem is I don't know why...