[GEC] Master Edition PSX Doom for the PlayStation. Beta 4 Released [11/16/2022]

[Lollie]

3 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

Ah, forgot about those (and for good reason). Yeah, that's also a possibility.

 

Admittedly probably a bit more expensive than a GameShark or a Pi though.

Depends on where you buy them! Best Buy is selling the PS Classic for $40 right now, Amazon US seems to be selling them for $32.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Lollie

[Dark Pulse]

40 minutes ago, Lollie said:

Depends on where you buy them! Best Buy is selling the PS Classic for $40 right now, Amazon US seems to be selling them for $32.

Gotta factor in shipping and tax, which would nudge it up closer to that $40 range probably. But then again, that may apply for the Pi as well, so hey.

[Gerardo194]

If PS5 had retro compatibility with the first Play Station using roms via USB or whatever... Certainly it will run on it.

[Dark Pulse]

Good news, I took my final step today with adding all the extra Lost Souls I'd need to compensate for the reduced HP, and the map still loaded just fine with no issues.

 

Next up is just fixing the bugs and coloring the sectors, and Bloodsea Keep will be ready for prime-time.

 

Such a lengthy changelog, 20k and counting...

Edited May 6, 2019 by Dark Pulse

[riderr3]

11 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

Good news, I took my final step today with adding all the extra Lost Souls I'd need to compensate for the reduced HP, and the map still loaded just fine with no issues.

 

Next up is just fixing the bugs and coloring the sectors, and Bloodsea Keep will be ready for prime-time.

 

Such a lengthy changelog, 20k and counting...

When I sending the maps, I try to note important changes that affect the gameplay and progression, the other stuff are too trifle to spend the time on writing about it. And which bugs Bloodsea still have? I thought this map was already sent a week ago (OP list of maps is outdated, I know).

Also I have another good news - next version of SLADE (3.1.5) will correctly display PSX Doom graphics, I sent a PM with bug report and it will be fixed. Few versions before it, SLADE broken the view of PSX Doom graphics and show them as "POD archives". Still guessing how GEC compressed PSXDOOM.WAD because SLADE still not compressing PSX Doom lumps. Surely they have own tools.

[Dark Pulse]

4 hours ago, riderr3 said:

When I sending the maps, I try to note important changes that affect the gameplay and progression, the other stuff are too trifle to spend the time on writing about it. And which bugs Bloodsea still have? I thought this map was already sent a week ago (OP list of maps is outdated, I know).

In terms of bugs I can't fix, there's the floor rendering problem that happens in big maps (like Dis).

 

In terms of bugs I'm going to have to try to fix, it's stuff like areas that have ceilings that are higher than the outside, and outside is a sky flat, the ceiling can still show up, "floating." My guess is that it's because the ceiling of the inner area is higher than 255, or at the very least, that it doesn't know how to clip it. I'm not sure how to fix that without lowering the room (to in turn, lower the ceiling).

 

There's also the fact the switch on the back of the throne can be pressed from the side since the check distance is a LOT more generous than PC Doom, but that mostly involves just beefing up the back of the throne a little so the player can't get close enough.

 

Lastly, another bug I can't directly fix, but have noted in the changelog - PSX Doom's physics is tied to framerate. If you overclock the emulated CPU to up framerate, you will actually have a hard time getting the yellow key, because Doomguy will sink like a rock and fall off, even if you're running. You actually NEED the reduced framerate to run across the tops of the bookcases. This could be taken care of by changing up how the key is accessed, if need be (probably just move it to the ledge overlooking the room). Opinions on that would be nice.

 

Otherwise, just down to tracking down the usual texturing flip bugs and the like and nabbing them. The enemy layout is pretty much done, and the map is actually a hella hard challenge. :) 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Dark Pulse

[Gerardo194]

40 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

PSX Doom's physics is tied to framerate. If you overclock the emulated CPU to up framerate, you will actually have a hard time getting the yellow key, because Doomguy will sink like a rock and fall off, even if you're running. 

This is absolutely true. If PSXDoom had a good frame rate, you would never reach the blue key in The Mansion level. That's why we had the gravity bugs in the GZDoom version. Even playing the Mansion in PC Doom or even a genuIne PSXDoom port, you won't reach the key.

[riderr3]

1 hour ago, Dark Pulse said:

In terms of bugs I'm going to have to try to fix, it's stuff like areas that have ceilings that are higher than the outside, and outside is a sky flat, the ceiling can still show up, "floating." My guess is that it's because the ceiling of the inner area is higher than 255, or at the very least, that it doesn't know how to clip it. I'm not sure how to fix that without lowering the room (to in turn, lower the ceiling).

No, it's happened not because of heights. It's because of sky ceiling nearby and there are other non-sky ceiling which are higher. It even happened on official PSX Final Doom MAP30, when the last closet with imps is opened you can get back and see that. Needs adjusting the heights or move further some sectors which are glitching.

 

1 hour ago, Dark Pulse said:

There's also the fact the switch on the back of the throne can be pressed from the side since the check distance is a LOT more generous than PC Doom, but that mostly involves just beefing up the back of the throne a little so the player can't get close enough.

Yeah, and by this way some nasty shortcuts can be performed. I did the redesigning because of this many times.
 

1 hour ago, Dark Pulse said:

Lastly, another bug I can't directly fix, but have noted in the changelog - PSX Doom's physics is tied to framerate. If you overclock the emulated CPU to up framerate, you will actually have a hard time getting the yellow key, because Doomguy will sink like a rock and fall off, even if you're running. You actually NEED the reduced framerate to run across the tops of the bookcases. This could be taken care of by changing up how the key is accessed, if need be (probably just move it to the ledge overlooking the room). Opinions on that would be nice.

Very interesting find. Still, it is better to specify in the Master Edition readme or PSX Doom guide, as a side effect. Because someone might think this is a bug.
 

38 minutes ago, Gerardo194 said:

Even playing the Mansion in PC Doom or even a genuIne PSXDoom port, you won't reach the key.

I remember I got blue key earlier on this map even from the stairs in the beginning. In Mansion ported to PC Doom I can't perform that.
 

Edited May 6, 2019 by riderr3

[Dark Pulse]

34 minutes ago, riderr3 said:

It's because of sky ceiling nearby and there are other non-sky ceiling which are higher. It even happened on official PSX Final Doom MAP30, when the last closet with imps is opened you can get back and see that. Needs adjusting the heights or move further some sectors which are glitching.

I'm going to have to shrink down heights then, basically. Which kind of sucks, because while two of these are purely cosmetic and easily fixable, a few cases of this are the crusher rooms at the end - meaning I will practically have to sink them down and almost "reverse" how they are in the PC version - instead of waiting for the lifts to take you up and into there, you could run in a straight shot but would have to use the lifts to get out.

 

At least, that's my current thinking. I'll have to experiment. But it looks terrible if viewed from outside the keep.

 

37 minutes ago, riderr3 said:

Very interesting find. Still, it is better to specify in the Master Edition readme or PSX Doom guide, as a side effect. Because someone might think this is a bug.

Well, that's why I said I'm soliciting opinions - I could move the yellow skull up to the ledge where you normally begin the run, meaning you wouldn't have to run the tops of the bookcases.

 

It's basically down to if we want to keep that but mandate emulator users to toggle off over lock to get the yellow key, or move the key slightly to get something that works around the problem and doesn't penalize overclocked players.

[riderr3]

56 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

It's basically down to if we want to keep that but mandate emulator users to toggle off over lock to get the yellow key, or move the key slightly to get something that works around the problem and doesn't penalize overclocked players.

Of course, you can move the key in the case of this map (until it is sent). But I do not intend to check every map and do specific redesigns for this. And this is not the meaning of the Master Edition project, as it is designed to play on hardware or at least without special improvements. I think that the mention in the readme file will be pretty enough, to warn that players. Especially given the fact that PSX Doom maps like Mansion can give you a trouble with that overclocking. And moreover some of redesigns can be useless years later, because there are more powerful machines will be available, and the result - players will drop down more faster and in more areas.

It reminds me of a debate about old DOS games that work too fast/incorrectly on later machines, and therefore it is recommended to lower the CPU cycles.

Edited May 6, 2019 by riderr3

[Dark Pulse]

3 hours ago, riderr3 said:

Of course, you can move the key in the case of this map (until it is sent). But I do not intend to check every map and do specific redesigns for this. And this is not the meaning of the Master Edition project, as it is designed to play on hardware or at least without special improvements. I think that the mention in the readme file will be pretty enough, to warn that players. Especially given the fact that PSX Doom maps like Mansion can give you a trouble with that overclocking. And moreover some of redesigns can be useless years later, because there are more powerful machines will be available, and the result - players will drop down more faster and in more areas.

It reminds me of a debate about old DOS games that work too fast/incorrectly on later machines, and therefore it is recommended to lower the CPU cycles.

Well, thing is, emulating a Playstation has nothing to do with newer machines being faster. It would allow for more accurate emulation, but 1:1 emulation would still mean "If it was 10 FPS on the original hardware, it's 10 FPS here too." Overclocking the emulated CPU is, after all, a hack, just like PGXP and stuff is.

 

At the same time, I personally wouldn't recommend playing the game so clunk-tastically if given the choice, either. And it does pose serious questions for backporting it to PC: The physics code would have to be altered, because obviously a PC is going to have no problem reaching a steady 30 FPS, and nobody will play it if we keep the framerate chugging, either.

 

@Erick194 and @Gerardo194, thoughts?

[riderr3]

Regarding to porting maps for GEC GZDoom - there is no need to extra altering because it's already has gravity bugs which mentioned few posts ago, there is no problem to play it with high framerate. I can confirm that you can jump from the Mansion stairs right to the blue key pedestal, like on a real console, and also had 200 FPS.

[Erick194]

You are right, even so in the current version of PsxDoom in GEC GZDoom the gravity is outside the original values, in the next version I returned those values as it should be, but in the Mansion the bug happens "The player does NOT reach the throne of the blue key ", that's why I reduced it a bit to reach the goal.

 

original gravity (gravity = 800 //1.0) // player falls as a stone due to the fluid framerate of the engine.
current gravity in version 2 (gravity = 520 //0.65) // terribly wrong
gravity for version 3 (gravity = 760 //0.95) // Necessary to avoid error in the Mansion

Edited May 8, 2019 by Erick194

[Dark Pulse]

15 minutes ago, Erick194 said:

You are right, even so in the current version of PsxDoom in GEC GZDoom the gravity is outside the original values, in the next version I returned those values as it should be, but in the Mansion the bug happens "The player does NOT reach the throne of the blue key ", that's why I reduced it a bit to reach the goal.

 

original gravity (gravity = 800 //1.0) // player falls as a stone due to the fluid framerate of the motor.
current gravity in version 2 (gravity = 520 //0.65) // terribly wrong
gravity for version 3 (gravity = 760 //0.95) // Necessary to avoid error in the Mansion

Wonder if that's the case for Bloodsea Keep as well. I guess you wouldn't mind testing that for me once I submit it then?

 

I mean, worse comes to worse and it compromises it too much I'd just move it to the ledge and off the bookcase; all it'd literally change would be about five seconds of running on top of the bookcases. The other changes in the map (necessitated by other factors) change far more of how the map plays than that ever will.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Dark Pulse

[Erick194]

Of course, of course I can try it, you can also try it by putting the automap as it eliminates everything that is in sight and the framerate of the game is regulated in a more fluid way.

[Dexiaz]

Well, guys...PSX SIGIL?

[riderr3]

We can look at the complexity of the SIGIL maps to find the answer to this rhetorical question. More precisely, if it partially works out (even with a permission), more than half of the atmosphere will be lost (for example, luminous cracks serve as one of the few light sources), and all the more is necessity to delete the deathmatch zones. Extra maps for the Master Levels were just added to make up the number of levels.
In addition, we are still waiting for beta3, the development time is already too long, almost a year has passed.

Edited May 31, 2019 by riderr3

[Dexiaz]

15 minutes ago, riderr3 said:

In addition, we are still waiting for beta3, the development time is already too long, almost a year has passed.

 

The Lost Levels project was made in 3 years, and I never heard that most complex Doom projects took less than a year.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Đeⓧiaz

[Dark Pulse]

No way is SIGIL getting added without massive, massive, MASSIVE simplifcations or a heavily-rewritten engine with better feature support, I'd say. The maps are just huge, complex, and overall not tuned to play very well at all with a controller in mind. Not to mention the monster variety is going to seriously gimp it.

[Uroboros87]

I have actually been playing sigil on the gec build of gzdoom with a PS3 controller setup with psx doom controls. I haven't completed sigil yet but it surprisingly plays pretty well with it. 

 

The maps definitely look like they would be hell to port though. I wouldn't mind taking a crack at it when I get more free time.

[Dexiaz]

Don't know, maybe I've been playing different Sigil. I didn't saw anything really "huge" or "complex" here.

 

For PS1 Doom of course those maps must be simplyfied, but most linedefs are just "cracked hell floor" decoration. Delete them and you'll get same maps used in Inferno/Flash Consumed episodes.

 

I didn't say that Sigil is bad or something. It's an awesome episode. But in technical meaning first 5 maps are definitely not huge as few maps WE HAVE reworked for GEC Doom. I mean TNT and Plutonia maps. We've already simplified them. And Sigil maps are not "bigger" than those TNT/Plutonia maps, heh.

 

Anyway, I've got your opinion, I won't discuss about this further.

 

Looking forward for already approved maps in new build.

[riderr3]

I, in my turn, share @Job's opinion about the custom episode "Into The Darkness" from user-made maps where we can uncover creativity and features that can be realized.

[Dexiaz]

No one:

Dexiaz:

 

[riderr3]

Fun fact that red rock texture still have transparent dots in test build of PSX Doom. This pit in the beginning terribly lags, other parts of map have fairly average performance. Though I wonder how E5M4 will work because there are a lot of crushers.

Edited June 6, 2019 by riderr3

[Dexiaz]

Please remember that I've used the FRAPS. This programm is always making videogames lagging while recording.

[Job]

3 hours ago, Đeⓧiaz said:

No one:

Dexiaz:

 

God bless you, you loony bastard! I think a level like that might call for ticking the overclock box, though.

[MateuszDragon]

It's possible to run PSX doom master edition on unmodded PS2 90000 series or PSP-3000 series ?

Edited June 8, 2019 by MateuszDragon

[Kroc]

It would have to be signed with Sony's key (it is possible), but I don't know how to do that. PSP modding is extreeemly simple do; no idea about PS2 though.

[RonLivingston]

Here is a video that I finally uploaded to youtube, the gameplay of tech city from fragport

 

 

[Dexiaz]

Hm, I like dat idea with "green" doors.