Voodoo doll death ending when you kill a monster

[Zolgia108]

As simple as that:

i would like to know if it's possibile to end the game triggering death after killing a specific monster.

I kill a monster activating a voodoo doll crusher, i die and i end the game. Can i? Thanks a lot!

[Pegleg]

There are only two ways I can think to do it in Boom:

 

Doom 1

• E1M8: Have a wall set up on the conveyor belt blocking the voodoo doll and tag the wall with 666. When the enemy is killed (I think it would have to be a Baron), the wall lowers and the voodoo doll crosses a linedef, activating a crusher, which crushed the voodoo doll, killing you and ending the game.

Doom 2

• Map07: Have a wall set up as in the example above. When the enemy is killed (may have to be a Mancubus), the wall lowers and the voodoo doll progresses as above.
• There's probably also a way to do it on Map07 with Tag 667, but I'd have to think about that more, since it raises the sector by the width of the lower sidedef.

Someone more versed with scripting can chime in with other ideas.

 

Again, to someone with more knowledge than me, would it be possible to use DeHacked (or something) to change the monster source code to add other options for different monsters to trigger these tags on other maps?

[Zolgia108]

seems to be complicated, by now i have a voodoo and an icon of sin together with a crusher on them, when i kill the monster the crusher activates killing both, it seems to work but it doesn't have the effect that i wanted. I need it to be like killing yourself when you kill the monster

[SilverMiner]

If I want to kill the player by voodoo dooling, I'll be using extended boom dehacked where I'll replace target monster's A_Fall codepointer with A_KeenDie so If all the monsters of that kind die on your map, you, as said @Pegleg, make a conveyor belt with voodoo on it and a door with tag 666. I suggest you to make the belt sector to be floor at 0 and ceil at 128 and the door's ceil at 55 mpx.

Then the doll rides over the line, that activates the crusher at the end of the belt, where you place some barrels...

I don't know why you wanna kill the guy instead of many other effects you could do with voodoo and conveyor...

Edited August 9, 2018 by SilverMiner

[scifista42]

2 hours ago, Zolgia108 said:

when i kill the monster the crusher activates killing [voodoo doll and icon of sin], it seems to work but it doesn't have the effect that i wanted. I need it to be like killing yourself when you kill the monster

 

Killing voodoo doll and icon of sin kills the player and exits the level. How exactly does that differ from what you actually want?

Edited August 9, 2018 by scifista42

[Nine Inch Heels]

5 hours ago, Zolgia108 said:

 

i would like to know if it's possibile to end the game triggering death after killing a specific monster.

if it has to work exactly that way, then the answer is that it's not possible.

 

There is a way to fake this, if you turn the whole area the player is in into a type 11 floor (deals 20 damage each tic and exits level on death) with a voodoo doll script, depending on how detailed your designated final area is this can be either relatively quick to build, or a straight pain in the ass to make.

 

Unfortunately that setup would also require some trickery with regards to the monster that needs to be killed. It's a very specific setup, that is hard to explain. Depending on the last fight in the map, I might be able to build that into the map for you.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Nine Inch Heels

[Novaseer]

Maybe stagger the crushing ceiling heights so that the player dies in time to the Romero head dying.

[Pegleg]

1 hour ago, Novaseer said:

Maybe stagger the crushing ceiling heights so that the player dies in time to the Romero head dying.

 

I think that would depend on knowing the player's health. Maybe heal them back to 100% and then do your voodoo (pun slightly intended) to time things so the Romero head dies just before the player. It does seem cruel to kill the player immediately after reviving the player completely, but it is a death exit.

 

@Zolgia108

Yes, the process seems complicated because what you're trying to do--without using more advanced scripting--is rather difficult.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Pegleg
Scripting can be complicated.

[Zolgia108]

thank you for your help, i think that i should probably stick to the romero crusher thing, it has some delay (kinda but nothing particular), but as @Pegleg said this would get too complicated without advanced scripting, and i don't have any idea how to use them properly :)

I thought there was a better way now since Scythe II did this already back in 2005 (if i am not wrong) with barrels etc.

it's cool thank you anyway guys!

[Nine Inch Heels]

5 hours ago, Zolgia108 said:

I thought there was a better way now since Scythe II did this already back in 2005 (if i am not wrong) with barrels etc.

Scythe used a combination of things, including Romero Heads as failsafes for the first death exit for example. You step on an Alter which has type 1 floor, you get crushed, and a romero head gets crushed at the same time.

 

There are other ways to do this in Boom, and again, without having looked at the map in question, it's impossible to tell what's gonna work for your case or what's not.

[Empyre]

How about you surround the Romero head and the voodoo doll with more than enough barrels to kill both instantly, even if the player has 200 health and armor, and then crush the barrels? In case of coop, make sure the other players' voodoo dolls are killed, too.

[Zolgia108]

7 hours ago, Empyre said:

How about you surround the Romero head and the voodoo doll with more than enough barrels to kill both instantly, even if the player has 200 health and armor, and then crush the barrels? In case of coop, make sure the other players' voodoo dolls are killed, too.

That would be the best instant death ofc, the only problem are the explosions, i'd say that they would kill the lore and the atmosphere (as they did in scythe btw), but this is surely the best way to go it seems

[Empyre]

51 minutes ago, Zolgia108 said:

That would be the best instant death ofc, the only problem are the explosions, i'd say that they would kill the lore and the atmosphere (as they did in scythe btw), but this is surely the best way to go it seems

You could put the explosions far away where the player couldn't hear them.

[Nine Inch Heels]

10 hours ago, Empyre said:

How about you surround the Romero head and the voodoo doll with more than enough barrels to kill both instantly, even if the player has 200 health and armor, and then crush the barrels? In case of coop, make sure the other players' voodoo dolls are killed, too.

Won't work. The player will die before the romero head trigger goes off and ends the level. It can cause people to accidentally restart the level even though they beat it already as intended.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Nine Inch Heels

[Zolgia108]

4 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Won't work. The player will die before the romero head trigger goes off and ends the level. It can cause people to accidentally restart the level even though they beat it already as intended.

and btw the first time i played scythe II back in the days i was in the outdoors area full of fatsos and i ended the fight with 3 cacodemons and 2 mancubus left and no ammo and like 20 hp, i went to the black alley and i died with the barrels, i remember i was stupid those days (i thought that i needed to have more health in order to exit the map surviving the explosion or something like that) and i restarted that thing at least 4 times and was about to rage quit before understanding that i was just a poor idiot.

[Empyre]

Why are you wanting to punish the player for exiting anyway? I am surely not the only player who gets angered by death exits.

[Nine Inch Heels]

1 minute ago, Empyre said:

Why are you wanting to punish the player for exiting anyway? I am surely not the only player who gets angered by death exits.

IIRC it's a boss fight, so chances are nothing comes after, also what's the problem? If you don't like it, just don't play it.

[Empyre]

1 minute ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

IIRC it's a boss fight, so chances are nothing comes after, also what's the problem? If you don't like it, just don't play it.

That is my point: It will make players not want to play it. That is a strange goal for a mapper.

[Zolgia108]

3 minutes ago, Empyre said:

Why are you wanting to punish the player for exiting anyway? I am surely not the only player who gets angered by death exits.

it is just a sum of different things, it should be the end of an episode after a map that gives you plenty of items and weapons, ofc i can simply start next one with pistol but in in this one you basically are in your mind fighting with your former self, it's a death ending for a reason, you kill your previous self in order to start again (and there comes episode II as well, that was my idea).

[Nine Inch Heels]

21 minutes ago, Empyre said:

That is my point: It will make players not want to play it. That is a strange goal for a mapper.

That's your opinion, and as such nowhere near an objective truth. Let people build things they wanna build and stop forcing your ideas on others. Simple as that.

 

As if there was a problem with a death exit on the last map of a set... Good lord, develop a sense of logic, will you please?

Edited August 11, 2018 by Nine Inch Heels

[Zolgia108]

also what kind of punishment is that? i mean you play 8 maps  and you are well rewarded if you find items and weapons and secrets for those ones, then you simply start again, i don't get why it should anger people please explain

 

[Nine Inch Heels]

Just now, Zolgia108 said:

also what kind of punishment is that? i mean you play 8 maps  and you are well rewarded if you find items and weapons and secrets for those ones, then you simply start again, i don't get why it should anger people please explain

 

The problem is simple, some people throw a fit the moment they hear the word death exit. And because of this they think death exits are "bad design", which is why they wanna force their ideal of not using any death exits on everybody else.

 

Don't listen to those folks. Build your stuff the way you want to. If you end up liking what you made, somebody else will.

[Zolgia108]

1 minute ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

The problem is simple, some people throw a fit the moment they hear the word death exit. And because of this they think death exits are "bad design", which is why they wanna force their ideal of not using any death exits on everybody else.

 

Don't listen to those folks. Build your stuff the way you want to. If you end up liking what you made, somebody else will.

thank you for the explanation. By the way, this is just for episode I for a lore reason, you kill yourself and you start again in a different plane of existence, for instance, at the end of episode II there is another boss fight and after you kill it you take a portal, and there is no death exit there. That would be the only one and it's not just because i don't like a bfg on an intro map it's because of the story that i am trying to build behind the maps. But whatever, i'm taking into account every single opinion here so i'd like to hear whats yours

@Empyre

[Empyre]

I was going to drop the subject and let you do you, but you asked for an explanation. I make it a goal to not die. I feel like if I die, I have lost. A death exit feels like I have been unfairly forced to lose, with no possibility to win. It also hurts a little to lose all the weapons I worked so hard for. I lose the sense of progression.

 

How about placing the barrels so the now-dead voodoo doll is propelled across an exit line?

[Nine Inch Heels]

5 minutes ago, Empyre said:

 

How about placing the barrels so the now-dead voodoo doll is propelled across an exit line?

voodoo dolls can't exit the map for you (as far as I'm aware)

Edited August 11, 2018 by Nine Inch Heels

[SleepyVelvet]

17 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

voodoo dolls can't exit the map for you (as far as I'm aware)

they can.  not sure why people don't do this...

[Zolgia108]

1 hour ago, Empyre said:

I was going to drop the subject and let you do you, but you asked for an explanation. I make it a goal to not die. I feel like if I die, I have lost. A death exit feels like I have been unfairly forced to lose, with no possibility to win. It also hurts a little to lose all the weapons I worked so hard for. I lose the sense of progression.

 

How about placing the barrels so the now-dead voodoo doll is propelled across an exit line?

i agree when it comes to deaths that don't have any good reason and completely random, but what about a death exit with a background reason behind it?

 

Also i can't understand why would making the doll exit the level by itself be a solution

[Nine Inch Heels]

15 minutes ago, Zolgia108 said:

agree when it comes to deaths that don't have any good reason and completely random, but what about a death exit with a background reason behind it?

People will complain even when there's a reason such as story telling. It is what it is.

 

15 minutes ago, Zolgia108 said:

 

Also i can't understand why would making the doll exit the level by itself be a solution

It isn't. You'd still need to actually inflict enough damage to the player to make sure doomguy dies and doesn't become a "zombie", which is an actual phenomenon that can happen when voodoo dolls are involved in a certain way.

 

Also it doesn't solve the problem that you'd still need to get the whole chain of events going with some sort of trigger.