Last Official Secret of Doom 2?

[snapshot]

Sorry if this was posted here already, I checked this and the Speed Demos forums and seems like no one posted this, If they did feel free to remove it.

 

 

Congrats Zero Master

 

 

[Marlamir]

After 24 years? daaamn

[Memfis]

So... what do we do now?

[ChrisVR]

Oh man i have no reason to play Doom anymore..

[MTF Sergeant]

Nailed it. 

[Job]

3 hours ago, ChrisVR said:

Oh man i have no reason to play Doom anymore..

I'll still play it because it's fun. 

[Egyptian Guardian]

Is Zero Master /ourguy/?

[Nevander]

I don't understand how triggering this works. Enemies don't push the player, I've never once been pushed by a monster in Doom. Also even if you were pushed, how is it any different from walking into it yourself? Unless somehow the special actions are tied to player caused movement and not environmentally caused movement? I need an explanation on this.

[HeyItsDuke]

24 years? really? Wow.

Edited September 1, 2018 by V0idH0und

[HeyItsDuke]

12 hours ago, Nevander said:

I don't understand how triggering this works. Enemies don't push the player, I've never once been pushed by a monster in Doom. Also even if you were pushed, how is it any different from walking into it yourself? Unless somehow the special actions are tied to player caused movement and not environmentally caused movement? I need an explanation on this.

This is what John Romero said on Twitter about the secret.

 

I've never been pushed by an enemy either.

Edited September 1, 2018 by V0idH0und

[Bauul]

Is Romero's explanation right? Based on the wiki article it suggests that the secret sector is a sector next to the teleporter, not the teleporter itself. 

[⇛Marnetmar⇛]

Frankly, I think Romero's talking out of his ass on this one. Taking credit for the design of the Doom cover also seemed a bit spurious -- considering how much of an open book he is about games he's worked on, why hadn't anyone heard about this before?

[Linguica]

On Doomworld dot com I think we can afford to post the actual explanation, which is, unsurprisingly, also on Doomworld dot com https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/1668210

 

Quote

We're in P_ThingHeightClip because you are in a moving sector: the large door north of the blue key, sector 101, hasn't quite finished opening yet. Things in moving sectors are passed to P_ThingHeightClip every tic to keep them within bounds as floor and ceiling heights change.

Sector 101 also defines your floor height, even though you are mostly not in it. You are hanging over the ledge, with your centre in sector 32, whose floor height is much lower. However you are still on the floor in the sense of line 1, so later at line 9 your z-position will be set to rise or fall with the floor. The new height is obtained from P_CheckPosition, which calculates tmfloorz as a side effect. You fall through the wall because somehow a "wrong" value for tmfloorz was calculated.

tmfloorz is calculated as follows. P_CheckPosition does two blockmap iterations, first over things, then over lines. tmfloorz starts as an estimate of your floor height, obtained from the floor height of the sector at your centre - in this case sector 32. The lines check may then raise it if you are overlapping any sectors with a higher floor. In particular, this will find sector 101. In the end, tmfloorz should be the highest floor underneath you. P_ThingHeightClip can safely move you to that height.

However, P_CheckPosition's main purpose is to determine if there are any obstacles to a thing moving to a given x,y coordinate. If an obstacle is found, P_CheckPosition thinks its main purpose is complete; it can stop processing, and return false, without finishing calculating tmfloorz.

How could this happen? P_ThingHeightClip assumes, not unreasonably, nothing is blocking you at your current position (note at line 2 it calls P_CheckPosition with the thing's own x,y coordinate, and ignores the return value). But it hasn't taken the pain elemental's actions into account.

The pain elemental has coughed up a lost soul, which is immediately killed because you are occupying the space. But it remains solid briefly, with you stuck inside it. P_CheckPosition's things check detects the dead-but-still-solid lost soul as a blocker and exits early, before reaching the lines check. On return to P_ThingHeightClip, tmfloorz remains at its initial value, the floor height of sector 32, to which you instantly drop, embedded in the wall.

 

[Deleted_Account]

Doom is like an onion with many layers! So much to discover, even after all these years.

[Erick]

3 hours ago, Bauul said:

Is Romero's explanation right? Based on the wiki article it suggests that the secret sector is a sector next to the teleporter, not the teleporter itself. 

I think Romero mistaken what sector was actually tagged as a secret and what was needed to be done in order to score it. I can't say I really believe the out of nowhere "super secret" story of his. Also yeah, it is near the teleporter.

Edited September 1, 2018 by GuyNamedErick

[Tristan]

2 hours ago, Marn said:

considering how much of an open book he is about games he's worked on, why hadn't anyone heard about this before?

 

Who's to say he did the secret like this intentionally?

[Walter confetti]

awesome

[dew]

On 8/31/2018 at 10:47 PM, tempdecal.wad said:

I checked this and the Speed Demos forums and seems like no one posted this

Like the news channel on TV telling you that your backyard is on fire...

[snapshot]

Yeah I uh..... don't like to dig through threads, sorry!

[Xeogred]

Almost seems too convenient for Romero to take credit for it? lol, what a weird one.

[VGA]

Hah, awesome! I didn't even know about this buggy secret.

[Sokoro]

It is not a secret, but a bad game design.

[Memfis]

It's kinda ridiculous and embarrassing how much coverage this got compared to much greater things the community has done.

[xdarkmasterx]

On 9/1/2018 at 4:58 AM, Nevander said:

I don't understand how triggering this works. Enemies don't push the player, I've never once been pushed by a monster in Doom. Also even if you were pushed, how is it any different from walking into it yourself? Unless somehow the special actions are tied to player caused movement and not environmentally caused movement? I need an explanation on this.

 

Enemies can push you by hitting with their attacks, but if shoved on to a teleporter by them you will still be transported :/

Edited September 5, 2018 by xdarkmasterx

[Dr_Kek]

To the people wh are saying that there's no point in playing Doom 2. Think about this. What if, now here me out on this, what if somebody were to make a wad with more secrets than Doom 2 and one nearly impossible secret. I know it sounds crazy but just think about it/

[Blastfrog]

Nvm

Edited September 6, 2018 by Blastfrog
I should read topics and not just skim them before commenting.

[Crusader No Regret]

I treat Romero's response as tongue-in-cheek.  Don't really believe he planned this back in 1994 but is just having fun acting as if was his diabolical plot for entertainment.

[yakfak]

I just wish the rest of doomworld had viral marketing this good for the times it produces amazing things >:) rushed magazine editors see more immediate value in "This level is very large" or "man stands in secret sector" than "Incredible thirty-two level set with new music is launched"

 

no disrespect to Zeromaster, a great runner

Edited September 6, 2018 by yakfak

[Grazza]

8 hours ago, Memfis said:

It's kinda ridiculous and embarrassing how much coverage this got compared to much greater things the community has done.

Indeed. It's a minor curiosity being mistaken for something momentous. For this to be getting millions of views while ZM's 30uv and 30nm are only in the thousands is rather sad.

[snapshot]

The title of the video is kinda Clickbait-y, and Game Journalists love Clickbaits.