The story so far

[Kaos]

So can you guys help me here. On Internet several websites recognise the doomslayer as the traitor priest who helped the demons to conquer argent dnur, who want revenge from the demons because they didn't fulfill their part of the bargain and created the icon of sin instead. But I don't think it's correct.

 

I thought the story was more or less like this:

 

Doomguy is on Mars because of insubordination when uac experiment the teleport technology and shit hit the fan. He has no choice but to drive head first into the enemies, liberating first Phobos, then Deimos and after going into hell to stop the invasion by killing the spider mastermind. His efforts are anyway useless, since the demons manage to slip through and invade earth, killing daisy in the process. Doomguy get to earth with a vengeance and after proceeding in the adventure, he manages to kill the icon of sin and stop once and for all the invasion.

After this, doom 64 happens, the motherdemon rise from the bombardament that should destroy all the remaining demons and once again it's up to doomguy to resolve the situation. At the end of this adventure he decides to remain in hell to thwart any other invasion attempt. After this we have a sort of discontinuity. Doomguy become involved with the argent dnur guys in same ways and fight along them. There is however a temporal continuum problem, because argent dnur should have been lost at the time, since icon of sin is successive to these events. So the war between hell and argent dnur should have happened even before doom 1. Not really sure what happened here. Did doomguy travel in time or did he fought alongside a resistance force? Eventually when in this dimension, he get his armour upgraded with argent energy and the pretorian armour is born. Doomguy permanence in hell lead to some legendary actions and he became the doom slayer. Demons send everything they got against him but in a epic showdown he manages to kill the Titan, becoming the most fearsome enemy of hell.

The hell forces, unable to kill him, are finally able to seal him away in a sarcophagus. 

Probably the doomslayer in his adventures acquires a sort of immortality since the demons are unable to kill him after the cathedral collapse and need to seal him instead. He probably can regenerate when killed or something like this.

 

Several years later, uac conduct again experiments on Mars, rediscover the teleport technology and use it to reopen a portal to hell. Samuel Hayden manages to leech and control the energy from hell, building the argent tower, and resolving the energy crisis on earth. Everything is fine until the demons see an opportunity and corrupt Olivia Pierce. She does a ritual in the Lazarus lab, in order to open a portal to hell and begin a new invasion.

Before this, Samuel Hayden lead some explorations in hell and discover the sarcophagus of the doom slayer. Olivia wants probably to destroy it or return it to hell, but Samuel reminds her everything on Mars is under his control and decide to open the sarcophagus. Olivia actions ritual has also the effect to awake the doom slayer and he is up to kick some demonic asses again. In his new adventure he meets Hayden who has a sort of control to his armour and he is helped by him and the night sentinels, who he is able to free from the torments of hell, in closing the well of souls and once again stop the invasion. After this Hayden, who wants to restore the argent energy production, manages once again to exert his control on the doom slayer armour and take the crucible from him.

Hayden say two interesting things there. First one, he is not the villain, meaning he just wants to exploit hell, but he clearly doesn't want a invasion to happen. Second that he can't kill the doom slayer. He just leave him on Mars. He is in the same position of the demons, unable to kill the doom slayer for some reasons he is only able to stop him temporarily.

 

Then we have the doom eternal trailer and things went awry, with the demons again invading the earth and we have clearly a faction who is cooperating with the demons and one opposing them. I'm not sure what Hayden did here, but he's probably opposing the demons again, since the uac is clearly fighting the demons.

 

Which ones are your theories and how do you piece what happens between doom 64 and doom 2016?

[Ramiel]

On the thing about the Icon of Sin, I’m fairly certain that the name is simply a title for the baddest demon around at the time, and not a proper name for just a single entity (I think, anyway. This would be the only way to resolve the issue of there being another Icon after DG already killed the first).

 

Otherwise, my timeline is (almost) identical to yours:

 

Doom > Doom II > Final Doom (why not?) > Doom 64 > DOOM > DOOM Eternal

 

 

[Aizen]

There was this video - which does, in my opinion, do a good job of reconciling the timeline between the classic and 2016 Doom.

 

[Kaos]

I think doom 2 enslaved state of icon of sin does in a certain way match the story of doom 2016. Icon of sin isn't a commanding demon, just a tool for the demon forces to further their plan. Also is unclear who are the demons in charge. In doom 2016 there is a voice who order demons and there are forces who strike bargains (the ones who promised Olivia Pierce so much). No one of the standard enemies anyway looks capable of fine commanding or having bargain abilities. Meaning it must be someone who is pulling the strings. The spider mastermind in doom 2016 also looks like is just created by sacrificing Olivia. Looks like in doom deals with the devil always go bad. The wretch get his son turned into icon of sin, Olivia, who probably wished for better functioning legs and a straight spine, get six instead...

I read around the thesis of the doom slayer travelling through time and space, meaning he could got back in time to fight alongside the night sentinels, but I'm not a fan of such gimmicks to reconciliate the timelines. Is more probable that at the time the fall of Argent D'nur already happened and doom slayer just meet up with the survivors and help them. He also encounters the wretch, who was betrayed by demons, and he sees the doom slayer as a tool for his vengeance granting him higher powers.

 

Also why the demons are not able to kill the doom slayer but have to seal him? And why Hayden say he is not able to kill him? The pretorian armour albeit described as impenetrable clearly is not, since demons can casually rip the legs off the doom slayer in death sequences. 

Edited September 3, 2018 by Kaos

[CreamCheese]

18 hours ago, Kaos said:

I think doom 2 enslaved state of icon of sin does in a certain way match the story of doom 2016. Icon of sin isn't a commanding demon, just a tool for the demon forces to further their plan. Also is unclear who are the demons in charge. In doom 2016 there is a voice who order demons and there are forces who strike bargains (the ones who promised Olivia Pierce so much). No one of the standard enemies anyway looks capable of fine commanding or having bargain abilities. Meaning it must be someone who is pulling the strings. The spider mastermind in doom 2016 also looks like is just created by sacrificing Olivia. Looks like in doom deals with the devil always go bad. The wretch get his son turned into icon of sin, Olivia, who probably wished for better functioning legs and a straight spine, get six instead...

I read around the thesis of the doom slayer travelling through time and space, meaning he could got back in time to fight alongside the night sentinels, but I'm not a fan of such gimmicks to reconciliate the timelines. Is more probable that at the time the fall of Argent D'nur already happened and doom slayer just meet up with the survivors and help them. He also encounters the wretch, who was betrayed by demons, and he sees the doom slayer as a tool for his vengeance granting him higher powers.

 

Also why the demons are not able to kill the doom slayer but have to seal him? And why Hayden say he is not able to kill him? The pretorian armour albeit described as impenetrable clearly is not, since demons can casually rip the legs off the doom slayer in death sequences. 

Because DoomGuy ever dying is not canon :^) More seriously, it may get explained in D:E but I think the Seraphim have granted him some form of transcendental immortality for his soul and biological immortality for his body, its already known that he can essentially live forever if he continues to slaughter demons, but his survival inside the sarcophagus for presumably millenia, and then the UAC's inability to dispose of him or tamper with his armour, suggest the Seraphim may have granted him some form of canonical immortality, and his dying in the game is simply a shit player and totally non-canonical. I'm not going to suggest that our current Marine and the marine from the original Tetralogy is the same, but we would have to assume the original marine is immortal as well since he becomes the eternal gatekeeper of hell in Doom 64 (btw, i'm certain the TNT Marine is not the same dude, but the Plutonia one is). There are a lot of assumptions you have to make if you think the current Marine is the same dude, the first is that he was either granted immortality after Doom 64 by the Seraphim in Argent D'nur, and that travelling through hell either enables you to travel through time or travel to alternate mirror dimensions that have non-syncronized time spans, i.e. DoomGuys original universe travelled through time much faster than his current one, which opens up more possibility. Is Argent D'nur simply another human, possibly earthling civilization? That didn't develop the same way that the others did? Could it possibly actually simply be the survivors of some human settlements from DoomGuys original universe, that were engulfed by hell, and discovered by the Elemental Wraiths. Which also leads to more questions, how did the Wraiths and Seraphim meet? Why are they travelling through hell? Why is there an Argent D'nur settlement on Phobos (Sentinel Prime) if the Argent D'nur civilization did not exist in the current doom universe?

 

Marty Stratton says that the lore in D:E will be very thought provoking, i'm hoping so, I can make theories in my head but I'd actually rather be proven wrong. Whilst the whole, "infinite earth civilizations all connected through heaven and hell" is fucking dope, its too easy. Remember though, they never said DoomGuy comes from Argent D'nur, they said he was slaying demons long before he met them. Are Argent D'nur's people even human?!?!?!

[Ramiel]

1 hour ago, CreamCheese said:

and that travelling through hell either enables you to travel through time or travel to alternate mirror dimensions that have non-syncronized time spans, i.e. DoomGuys original universe travelled through time much faster than his current one, which opens up more possibility. Is Argent D'nur simply another human, possibly earthling civilization? That didn't develop the same way that the others did? Could it possibly actually simply be the survivors of some human settlements from DoomGuys original universe, that were engulfed by hell, and discovered by the Elemental Wraiths. Which also leads to more questions, how did the Wraiths and Seraphim meet? Why are they travelling through hell? Why is there an Argent D'nur settlement on Phobos (Sentinel Prime) if the Argent D'nur civilization did not exist in the current doom universe?

The easiest solution to this problem until we get more info is to think of Hell as a "Border World", much like Xen in Half-Life, in which it acts like a "hub" of sorts to different dimensions.

This is why the denizens of Hell would be forced to use the nature of their empty border world to invade other dimensions in order to gather resources via assimilating the invaded worlds into their own, and how there could be two different UACs and one Doomguy.

This is how I believe The Slayer first came across Argent D'Nur, as he had happened upon them in the middle of a demonic invasion of their own world, and helped them out.

 

But our only proof of this so far, as stated in Slayer's Testament VI, is:

 

And in his terrible rancor between worlds and through time...

 

This wording (at least I think...) could only imply literal travel between dimensions. It also has the possible implication of almost every user-made .wad being technically canon, and that's cool as shit.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Pepsiman

[Dear Hoplite]

11 hours ago, Pepsiman said:

 

This wording (at least I think...) could only imply literal travel between dimensions. It also has the possible implication of almost every user-made .wad being technically canon, and that's cool as shit.

 

 

If that's right, then H Doom is canon now

 

 

Think about that