Thoughts on Human Allies?

[bigbossbalrog]

Want to know everyone's thoughts on this. You can briefly see (seemingly) a group of human soldiers fighting some Imps during the Phobos demo (there hard to see though) I believe this is the first time (in a non mod) for the Doom series, and I wonder what everyone thinks about it.

 

It might take away the feeling of a lone badass, but the addition of friendly soldiers added to the sandbox of the Halo series, so i'm going to wait and see.

[GuyMcBrofist]

Doom 3 had plenty of other humans fighting as well, just not in your immediate vicinity.

 

If there does end up being AI friendlies that are trying to fight in the same space you're in, it would be cool to see them be at least somewhat competent, and not just pure cannon fodder as part of the spectacle.

[Chezza]

I doubt we will fight with human npcs, mainly due to game mechanics. Squishy allies can get in the way of your rockets.

[Duke of Pathoris]

I would like to see a bunch of human marines being flattened almost right away. I doubt it would otherwise work for a Doom game unless it's a spin-off.

[DooM_RO]

Who cares about them? They're just getting in my way.

[Bottomsup]

Only if they are coop partners. Otherwise
 

24 minutes ago, DooM_RO said:

Who cares about them? They're just getting in my way.

 

[CreamCheese]

It works well in Halo but I actually reckon, with Doom's ticket system for AI you could have a ticket system for allies to make sure that whilst they appear to have efficacy they leave you most of the action and allow themselves to be murdered in spectacular fashion. Like you walk into a scene and watch some badass space marines fighting back and depending on your actions they will survive or what not but they don't just go fucking ham like a FarCry ally but they don't break believability like how in Half-Life 2, the rebels are incredibly stupid but survive by virtue of being bullet sponges, which really breaks immersion at points in the end.

[CreamCheese]

Ultimately I don't want "allies" I want set pieces that include human allies to set up the mood, like d16 does it kind of ok with the hologram scenes in Advanced Research Facility but I wanna see like some marine doing an epic last hoorah before you arrive you see her just kicking ass but getting overwhelmed by imps and blowing herself up idunno, to really convey the dire situation humanity is in, I don't just want to be told "humanity is geting fucked up" as Marty says it, I want to fucking see that in person.

[NoXion]

Maybe temporarily having a proper ally or two could be part of some kind of optional objective, there might be some humans bad-ass enough to survive a brief while. But since they said they weren't bringing back Rune Trials I'm not sure what implications that has for optional objectives overall.

Otherwise, having friendlies that don't get quickly slaughtered by the rampaging Legions of Hell would seem to be straying too far from a successful formula. As far as I know (haven't actually completed the game yet >_<) there aren't any friendly NPCs in the whole of D16, so their introduction would constitute a qualitatively new gameplay element. As opposed to the Meat Hook, which feels more like a quantitative evolution of previous gameplay, expanding the player's movement options.

 

I don't think id are stupid enough to fall into the trap of adding useless meatshields that get in the way. If an idiot like me can see the problem, one hopes that game developers who do this shit for a living do as well.

[Dear Hoplite]

Either co op partners or something along the lines of Sam from the Evil Dead video game

 

a companion that's useful when it comes to spaces your 8 foot tall Doomguy just can't fit through

[igg]

1 hour ago, Dear Hoplite said:

a companion that's useful when it comes to spaces your 8 foot tall Doomguy just can't fit through

Maybe a rabbit? Then Doom 1s ending would totally make sense. 

[snapshot]

They're most likely there just as a part of the spectacle, I don't think having allies fight with you is a good idea unless it's co-op or something, they'll just get in the way of the action (Half-Life 2 Rebels flashbacks).

[igg]

3 minutes ago, tempdecal.wad said:

They're most likely there just as a part of the spectacle

Think so too. I don't even think the player has full control over the Doomslayer in this sequence. 

[seed]

I don't think they're going to be allies, most likely they'll be just some units fighting alongside you.

[VGamingJunkie]

10 hours ago, Duke of Pathoris said:

I would like to see a bunch of human marines being flattened almost right away. I doubt it would otherwise work for a Doom game unless it's a spin-off.

 

That's how I can see it going down, like on AM2R (Metroid 2 remake fan project) that shows a lot of the defense team shooting down a Zeta Metroid until it mutates into an Omega Metroid and promptly mops the floor with them. Maybe have Doom Slayer be behind a panel of glass or something and it shows them fighting and appearing to win until some new demon (Baron of Hell or something else) shows up out of nowhere and flattens them.

 

Or maybe it's done with holograms, Doom 2016 was a fan of doing that.

[igg]

1 minute ago, MetroidJunkie said:

Or maybe it's done with holograms, Doom 2016 was a fan of doing that.

I like the hologram approach much better since it fits perfectly to the lone warrior atmosphere. From what we've seen so far Slayer enters the scene when Phobos and Earth invasion just began. Maybe Doom Eternal starts directly after the Doom 2016 events. 

 

I really hope they do not add too much NPCs since that really spoils the atmosphere. 

 

Why show a fighting SWAT team on Phobos when you could just place the fresh slayed corpses? Maybe blood runs still out of them or they drop from the roof. This would add so much more atmosphere to the Phobos opening scene: all the staff is frightened, even the security guards give you their Plasmagun because they saw what happened to their colleagues outside.

[VGamingJunkie]

Could have corpses sprinkled around and then it shows holograms doing like I said, appearing to be winning until a Baron or something else comes in and wrecks them and they end up in the positions they're actually in.

[seed]

20 minutes ago, igg said:

Maybe Doom Eternal starts directly after the Doom 2016 events. 

 

It doesn't start immediately after the events from the previous game, "some time" has passed.

[SaladBadger]

I'd be fine with holograms showing the meager resistance trying to fight back and getting slaughtered, I guess. The phobos segment did have a lot of live humans, including soldiers, but I suspect we won't be seeing them in action. It's just really not the Doom way, especially with the way Doom 4 worked, where it's focused so heavily on your capabilities more than anything.

 

Human allies always feel like they're tricky, since there's a balance that needs to be hit where they aren't stealing all your fun, while not appearing utterly useless. They have to avoid getting in your way, while being able to keep up with you as you progress, which in a mobility heavy game would probably be an utter nightmare... If there's any human soldiers shown fighting I can't imagine it being anything beyond a setpiece where they just get killed quickly.

[Novaseer]

I suppose if you see some humans being wrecked by even the lower-tier demons offscreen, it can complement the 'you're so much more badass than these human goons' idea that D2016 pushed. Just think about it: horde of armed resistance soldiers get taken down by a few imps, then you beat them all with your bare fists. Metal.

 

But if they were actual companions, I'd probably TK them until the game lets me progress without them for all eternity.

[geo]

Having AI allies are always fun. It diversifies things.

[TakenStew22]

No. Keep that stuff in Halo. Satan has an army, we have a Doomguy.

[indigotyrian]

Figure it's just set dressing.

[Solmyr]

They're fine as long as they are incompetent meat shields, so bad, they make Doomslayer look even more awesome by comparison.

[Doge Sword]

I think they would have to be bad because they wouldn't have Doomguy's superpowers.

[Duke of Pathoris]

Maybe something like the Dark Servant from HeXen. Quite powerful but short-lasting.

[Robo_Cola]

I say do it like Doom 3 and only have them fighting not directly in your vicinity.  Maybe there could be a scene where you grab a new gun from a wounded soldier similar to Jack Campbell (bodyguard BFG guy from Doom 3) who was tough enough to not immediately die in combat.

Edited September 15, 2018 by STILES

[ATP2555]

17 hours ago, STILES said:

I say do it like Doom 3 and only have them fighting not directly in your vicinity.  Maybe there could be a scene where you grab a new gun from a wounded soldier similar to Jack Kelly (bodyguard BFG guy from Doom 3) who was tough enough to not immediately die in combat.

Campbell was his last name, actually.

 

On 9/14/2018 at 3:14 AM, DooM_RO said:

Who cares about them?

I do.

 

Anyways, they need to have friendly humans to fight alongside. The Useless Allies trope is overused in Doom and it's getting really old. People are fine with Wolfenstein and Quake (IV) having friendly NPCs, but when the idea of Doom doing it comes to mind, it's a crime.

Edited September 15, 2018 by ATP2555
Added something

[Robo_Cola]

Yes you're right, I always got their names mixed up I fixed it. 

[TakenStew22]

38 minutes ago, ATP2555 said:

Anyways, they need to have friendly humans to fight alongside. The Useless Allies trope is overused in Doom and it's getting really old. People are fine with Wolfenstein and Quake (IV) having friendly NPCs, but when the idea of Doom doing it comes to mind, it's a crime.

You're Doomguy. You don't need allies to fight along side you because YOU are the demons kryptonite. Friendly marines would just slow down the action IMO.