Demonastery - RELEASED! (Now on idgames)

[Empyre]

42 minutes ago, Nootrac4571 said:

I can't shadow the floor without also shadowing all the walls.

In Boom format or higher, you can. Since the same ports that support DECORATE also support UDMF, you might as well upgrade your map. That would give you so much freedom with what you can do, things like slopes, 3D floors, and fancy lighting.

 

I would like to add that it is impressive what you achieved without those features.

Edited September 21, 2018 by Empyre

[Ralphis]

I have to disagree with Empyre above, moving to UDMF is the polar opposite of including the MAPINFO/Dehacked solution and will only narrow the audience even further. This is great stuff achieved using the most basic Doom functions that doesn't need the complicacy of the UDMF format.

 

In regards to introducing the dehacked/mapinfo, assuming it doesn't interfere with anything else you should be able to just copy over the dehacked and mapinfo lumps into the wad - especially the MAPINFO lump. There might be a few large thingid replacements you'd have to do because of the dehacked patch - maybe @Obsidian can be of assistance again since he put together the patch.

[Obsidian]

On 9/20/2018 at 9:45 PM, Nootrac4571 said:

So, Newb question, but: What's the best way of going about this? I'm a little vague on how deHacked works - is there a way to include Obsidian's fixes and the DECORATE/MAPINFO lumps in the same release? Or would it be best to just use the deHacked version since that's the most widely compatible? Or just include two versions of the wad?

 

You can include both the DeHackEd and the ZDoom-specific patches in the wad, although currently the DECORATE isn't really needed. MAPINFO on the other hand has many ZDoom-specific uses, such as ending the game when the map finishes or disabling jumping and crouching. The patches don't clash, if that's what you're worried about.

[Kroc]

Yes, please do include the Boom support -- it's the difference between 30 FPS in GZDoom and a stable 60 FPS in PrBoom+!

["JL" was too short]

On 9/21/2018 at 5:32 PM, Nootrac4571 said:

4) The larger bricks are supposed to represent "quoins" (the larger bricks used at the corners of some buildings to provide structural strength.) I thought they looked ok, but I've just realised that I actually made a few specific quoin textures then forgot all about them, so I'll just swap them in. Should look much better.

 

Ah, yeah, that makes sense (and I learned a new word today, cheers!).  Yeah, it's the sort of thing one wants a specific texture for, I think, at least if you want to capture the "interlocking" look that seems to characterize a proper quoin.

 

I know it's academic in your case, but I was thinking that if you *did* just want to have a simple column of different-looking blocks at the corners or ends of a wall, what you'd want to do is make sure it was a texture with crisp, distinct edges, same as with any other purpose-tailored support or border texture:

 

Spoiler

(texture is AQUATILE from gothmash.wad and probably some other places as well, but it was just the first thing I found that would serve the purposes of illustration)

 

But yeah, thanks for taking my critiques so well and sorry for my apparently poor taste in graphic options ;D

 

 

[Nootrac4571]

Demonastery v0.4!

 

Ok, so I think I'm about done with the map, aside from music (which is on the way) 

 

I've tested with Zdoom, GZDoom, PRBoom, PRBoom+ and the Eternity Engine and it all seems to work ok.

 

Link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ri1z67mg2n0j4gc/Demonastery04.wad?dl=0

 

Changelog since the last update:

 

* Thanks to Obsidian, (Thanks, Obsidian!) it should now be entirely Boom compatible. (I was aiming for Limit Removing, but Crispy Doom doesn't seem to like a few of my more creative uses of linedef actions, so I can't say that with confidence.) 

 

* A few more aesthetic changes - I'm at the point now where I'm just fiddling with stuff for the sake of it, and really need someone to tell me to stop.

 

* It now has a much better sky texture and a custom title screen.

 

* I've made UV a little bit tougher and balanced the other difficulty levels a bit better - In particular the third key area is now much tougher on UV, but a lot more forgiving in lower difficulties, and there's a little bit less health and armour in key positions throughout in UV.

 

* I've slightly adjusted the backpack secret to avoid a potential accidental cheesing which could make 100% kills rather frustrating to track down.

 

If anyone wants to give it another go just to check for compatibility/obvious broken stuff/egregious balance oversights etc, then I'd much appreciate it! I'm hoping this is the last update before calling it done.

 

Thanks for your feedback everyone! I've already started playing around with a couple of new maps, so I'm super eager to move on to one of them.

 

Also: If someone wanted to assume I'm a total idiot who knows nothing, and explain how I'd go about sharing the custom textures/sprites with you all, and submitting the map to /idgames I'd be incredibly grateful. And - when it's 100% done, should I post a new thread with the release version, or just update this one?

[Misty]

Just update this one. That's how it works here in most cases. 

[Nine Inch Heels]

17 hours ago, Nootrac4571 said:

If anyone wants to give it another go just to check for compatibility/obvious broken stuff/egregious balance oversights etc, then I'd much appreciate it! I'm hoping this is the last update before calling it done

I played it another time. Based on my recollection of the first version, I much prefer the current one. I didn't find any hall of mirror issues, and some of the smaller touches, such as repopulating previously cleared areas make the whole map feel very polished at this point, imo.

 

A thing I noticed was that in the yellow key room with the revenants it's possible to nudge the revs on the edge of their pillars at times, causing them to get stuck. Since there are no flyers around in that room, it's probably a good idea to flag the linedefs of these pillars with "block monster" just to be safe.

[Degree23]

Lack of SSG is a huge negative for me when you're fighting so many mid-tier enemies. Otherwise very enjoyable.

[Nootrac4571]

1 hour ago, Degree23 said:

Lack of SSG is a huge negative for me when you're fighting so many mid-tier enemies. Otherwise very enjoyable.

 

Hmm, there's a SSG quite near the start, in the building with the burnt wooden beams, but since going into that room isn't mandatory it is possible to miss it. I'm reluctant to make major changes at this point but I could totally make it a bit more obvious.

[Nootrac4571]

OK, so since a couple of people have missed the SSG, and the early level is much less fun without it, I've added some bars to the door to the courtyard, which only open up once you've pressed the switch to access the SSG. It's a tiny bit "random switch does something random elsewhere," but since the door in question is right by the exit to the room and there's nowhere else to go at that stage I think it's ok.

[Nootrac4571]

It's finished! And now on idgames - see original post for details/links etc.

 

Cheers everyone!

[elend]

Great work, man. I am planning on re-playing this soon!

[Kristian Nebula]

Thoroughly great stuff! Took me a good 40 mins to play through. Really great implementation of textures, fun secrets and battles were engaging. A few very fun close calls with 6% health or so, too bad I realized only afterwards I could have streamed it on twitch too. :D

[Pirx]

that flesh cathedral is awesome.

[Nootrac4571]

On 11/6/2018 at 10:09 PM, Kristian Nebula said:

Thoroughly great stuff! Took me a good 40 mins to play through. Really great implementation of textures, fun secrets and battles were engaging. A few very fun close calls with 6% health or so, too bad I realized only afterwards I could have streamed it on twitch too. :D

 

I'm super glad you enjoyed it! I'm especially happy that the difficulty level worked for you - I'm no DoomGod, so UV is pitched slightly higher than my own comfortable skill level, which is obviously quite hard to playtest.

[lirui1001]

Just did a random UV Max run.

 

 

[Kristian Nebula]

20 hours ago, Nootrac4571 said:

 

I'm super glad you enjoyed it! I'm especially happy that the difficulty level worked for you - I'm no DoomGod, so UV is pitched slightly higher than my own comfortable skill level, which is obviously quite hard to playtest.

 

It wasn't very hard for me, just filled with nice surprises. I'm a guy who always plays Doom on UV, and DOOM2016 on Nightmare or Ultra-Nightmare :D

 

But yeah, really good work. Nice flow on top of it all.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Kristian Nebula

[Kroc]

Really enjoyed this. I'm an exploration person and always play on medium or lower difficulty because I loathe excessive quantities of enemies slowing things down. I found the map well balanced for me and the architecture was stunning. In fact, the only disappointment was that the outer wall and courtyard area between the outer wall and monastery were not used! I would have loved to have run around the perimeter and the inside wall area would provide a tight space for combat.

[dantos_the_mutulator]

Nice work this looks Really Good!

[kristus]

Just about to play this as it looks interesting. One thing though. a couple of the gargoyle faces on the first screenshots are slightly misaligned. Not sure if anyone mentioned it yet. 

[Nootrac4571]

55 minutes ago, kristus said:

Just about to play this as it looks interesting. One thing though. a couple of the gargoyle faces on the first screenshots are slightly misaligned. Not sure if anyone mentioned it yet. 

 

Yeah I was hoping nobody would notice that. They were perfectly aligned for the whole mapmaking process, then I suspect I must have hit "a" by accident while in 3D mode just before the last export. Side note: having an important keyboard shortcut in GZDoom Builder be one of the WASD keys is a recipe for accidental disasters when you're rapidly switching between mapping and playtesting. Or maybe I just have idiot clumsy hands.

 

I could upload a fix to idgames? But I've already done that once and I don't want to take the piss.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Nootrac4571

[hedgehog]

Just played this and have to say: Wow, the screenshots do not do this map justice. It pretty much ticks all my boxes:  

• Incredible attention to detail everywhere.*
• An incredibly well-executed (roughly) medieval theme/setting.
• An incredibly strong sense of place. As much as I admire well-made abstract maps, for me they are never quite as impressive as a map that manages to create a convincing "realistic" setting -- by which I also mean convincing fantastical elements, such as fleshy dimensional rifts and bleeding architecture. This is one of those maps where it's hard to wrap one's head around how solid and three-dimensional everything feels, despite being created in a 2.5d engine.
• (Related to the previous two points:) Expansive vistas and a sense of being inside a much larger world, although the playable area is of a manageable size.
• An interconnected layout and really fun, engaging progression, that keeps leading you back to earlier parts of the map from new angles and vantage points -- without ever feeling arbitrary, making you feel lost or leaving you wandering in circles. This is also tied to the previous three points, as the logical layout and clear visual differentiation between the various parts of the map help you keep/quickly regain a fairly clear grasp of where you are.
• On HNTR, combat that feels carefully designed (it never feels like monsters were just randomly added in the editor) and adds to the overall experience, without being overwhelming or unmanageable. So many Doom maps feature really punishing combat even on lower difficulty settings. While I understand the appeal of that kind of gameplay to others, it's just not something I tend to enjoy. Here, the encounters lend just the right amount of spice, while allowing the focus to remain on a sense of exploration and adventure. Thank you for not catering only to UV/highly skilled/hardcore players!
• Wonderful secrets...

Spoiler

 

... that not only give you items, but reward you with extra gameplay and sometimes new areas. The secrets felt complex and clever, but never unfair.

 

The only one with which I had quite a bit of trouble was the BFG. However, once I peeked at this thread and knew I had to look for something in the various key rooms (I deliberately read as little as possible, so as to still be able to figure out most of the secret on my own), it immediately made sense.

 

And although I usually hate encountering Cyberdemons, here I didn't really mind, as:

(a) it is an optional extra, tied to the secret. Hearing that familiar roar as you pick up the BFG adds some nice tension: you immediately know what's coming, but you don't yet know where and how -- at least when you play the map for the first time.

(b) the same secret that triggers the Cyberdemon gives you the most powerful weapon in the game, so you have the means to kill it fairly quickly and don't have to do the endless shoot, rinse and repeat routine which I personally hate.

(c) the arena gives you plenty of cover from those horrible overpowered rockets.

 

It's also interesting how the BFG/Cyberdemon secret can potentially alter the dynamics of the map, depending on if and when you find it. During my first playthrough, I found the BFG after having completed the rest of the map. I then played the map again, mainly to see how it plays out if I get the BFG before entering the final arena. Indeed, it makes for a very different experience. I enjoy having those options.

 

• Great choice of music -- or perhaps I should rather say, fantastic job on the music, @Jimmy.

I see the excellent Brigandine being mentioned a few times in this thread. No disrespect meant towards Viggles, but as beautiful and well-made of a map that is, for me Demonastery trumps it in pretty much every respect.

 

_______________________________

* I feel your frustration at those misaligned gargoyle faces and if uploading a fix is possible, that would be great. For what it's worth, though, when I played the map I was far too busy taking in the imposing scenery to notice. Had I not gone back specifically to look after reading the post above, I might never have noticed.

[Armand]

Another wad that get my atention but I get the same problem as hurt.wad, an excessive amount of lag, doesn't run pretty cool like on the videos I don't think is my computer, I have AMD Radeon R4 graphic card, and I use ZDL with the last version of GZDoom. Hope somebody help :(

[Nootrac4571]

On 5/14/2020 at 4:17 PM, Armand said:

Another wad that get my atention but I get the same problem as hurt.wad, an excessive amount of lag, doesn't run pretty cool like on the videos I don't think is my computer, I have AMD Radeon R4 graphic card, and I use ZDL with the last version of GZDoom. Hope somebody help :(

 

That's a very old graphics card I'm afraid, which will struggle to run more complex wads with the latest version of GZDoom.

 

I'd recommend trying a different source port: LZDoom is a version of GZDoom designed to work better on older cards, or: since Demonastery doesn't require any ZDoom features (specifically, it's Boom compatible,) you could try PRBoom which should hopefully manage it much better.

 

Hope that helps! Good luck!

 

 

[Psilli]

Finished this map not long ago. Gotta say: for as small and as short as this was, I absolutely loved it! Enemy encounters felt well-balanced with a few surprises mixed in for good measure. My only wish is that this type would last longer! Anyway, great job.

[Zolgia108]

Really cool map dude! Going to review on id games. Loved it

 

 

EDIT: for some reason i can't review it.

It would be 4 stars

really nice details, nice atmosphere and some pretty good combat (i liked the arch plus chaingunners the most, cause it was the most challenging). I'd love to see more of your maps m8, keep it up!

Edited June 10, 2020 by Zolgia108

[DannT]

Wow, stunning in all regards. The custom textures mesh seamlessly with the stock one, and even those were used to the fullest degree. Just ran throught it on UV, and it took 25 minutes in-game, and probably a bit longer after multiple save&reloads. Was hoping to do UV Max, but I had to make a mad dash at the end as I was nearly down to fists. 

[Biodegradable]

Just finished it. I really enjoyed the clever use of how everthing is interconnected and the how the single key collection area expands and become more difficult with each subsequent collection. The sense of progression was really fluid and it didn't take me long to understand how the map worked and what I needed to do to progress. It was a tough play, but I enjoyed the challenge and only died three times. Really awesome work!