Under a Freezing Sea (Now on /idgames)

[XLightningStormL]

On 10/22/2018 at 4:06 PM, A.Gamma said:

Please tell me, how is it poorly balanced? I recognized it had ammo problems and that it can get confusing, but given that you're the first person to say that it's poorly balanced I'm genuinely curious.

Anyway back to the context, UAFS suffers from a little thing I call "Hellbound Syndrome" which basically means: A WAD/PK3 for Doom that's well designed architecturally, albeit designed (whether on purpose, or not) to be played as if HTNR was actually Nightmare.

Specifically what I mean is that it's evident that this isn't balanced towards people that play Doom casually (Hell even Plutonia can be played semi-casually) but people who obviously played Plutonia on UV, and crap out Hell Revealed for Breakfast (and no I'm not a low-skill level user, I play Doom in HMP, that's the native experience)

I'm a person that believes Cyberdemons should stick to being used in medium-size+ arenas, and high-tier enemies shouldn't be treated like Imps or Former Humans. And that Doomguy is the epitome of a basically unstoppable destroyer, not just some random grunt, that get's btfo'd by Revenants hiding in corners (lol)

Not to mention the intro is kinda...baity, the level starts off dark, ambient, and atmospheric, then boom turn the power on, and you're dealing with a cyberdemon arena that seems like a callback to Ancient Aliens of all things.

BTW: I'm not saying that you should butcher the difficulty, if you want to do that, be your own guest, it's your mod.

[bemused]

50 minutes ago, XLightningStormL said:

stuff

 So you are taking time out of your day, commenting negatively on something the OP spent time and effort on, verbally shitting on it because it doesnt match your "beliefs"? You *believe* that cybs "should" be used like this and midtiers "shouldn't" be used like that... how about just finding something that suits your sedate playstyle, which matches your expectations of a guided map tour? 

[bioshockfan90]

1 hour ago, XLightningStormL said:

2 hard ;(

 

so Not Jabba was right. cool.

[leodoom85]

Let me post a true feedback.

@A.GammaHere it goes. 

 

Pros:

• The atmosphere of the map sets the tone perfectly...even those ambient sounds are fine to add more depth to it.
• I really like that there are 2 "separated areas" which adapts your gameplay a lot. While you have more quick actions in surface, underwater has a pressured gameplay. Air is your priority when you kill those bastards in a swift way. And surface is not different, so that the player must be alert at all times.
• The custom Hades Elemental monster was a nice addition...hard to kill, teleport ability and projectiles with a good spread.
• Surprise for blue key!!! Nice trap there which players will be caught badly :P
• Lots of secrets which helped a lot.
• The beginning was quite moody to build what have ahead. Liked it.
• Ammo and health has the right amount. Make every shot counts while being unharmed because there are some nasty traps out there!!!
• Autosaves. I didn't saved manually since it was not necessary.

Cons:

• Although that it was quite unexpected to have a cybie and use him to infight what you have around, some players might not like it. My opinion is that you keep it, because it adds even more pressure to the player and, in that way, the player is more focused on it. It's up to you to change the monster depending of the difficulty though.
• Some fights are a bit cramped. That depends of the player's skill to take decisions of going all-out or doing it meticulously.

What I found of this map:

 

The map itself is well detailed with the pretty well known Plasma track from Duke Nukem. Lighting is also really good and those lighting effects plus the ambient sounds that a tech base has to offer can bring an interesting experience. Difficulty of the map is hard, which I appreciate it (I played in UV and I died once for a first attempt) and gives a proper challenge to the player. Ammo and health should be used right, like I said before. I kinda expected some kind of last boss after the exit while descending to that lift but, it's an ok ending after all the madness of the map. 

Enemy topic is well used for each area, especially some viles and the Hades Elemental ones. One thing though....I haven't found the plasma gun and the blue door XD.

Overall, it's a nice-looking, hard map that the player must stay sharp and use the best of skills to survive. Thumbs up!!! 

[A.Gamma]

16 hours ago, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

I played it in GZDoom 2.4.0 today on UV.

I liked it, it's a fun adventure, with well designed encounters.

My version of GZDoom doesn't have spotlights, so that came up as an unknown thing, but I figured out the power easily enough.

My only real gripe is the hangmen seem tankier than I think they should be.

I enjoyed the combat, not too difficult, which is good given my frames were running 10-15 the whole time, and really liked the underwater sections. They were very tense, and I enjoy fighting in three dimensions.

I liked your use of the (nerfed) Hades Elementals, too, and the custom monster use in general was spot on, but they didn't steal the show.

Progression is a little confusing, but the freedom offered greatly outweighed it without making it too confusing.

Truly superb map.

 

Glad that you liked the map and the underwater combat! They do add a whole other dimension to fighting.

Also damn, 10-15 frames? I designed with an old PC in mind, one that has a Core 2 Duo and a GT 220, and even that got a solid 50-60 fps.

 

6 hours ago, XLightningStormL said:

I'm a person that believes Cyberdemons should stick to being used in medium-size+ arenas, and high-tier enemies shouldn't be treated like Imps or Former Humans. And that Doomguy is the epitome of a basically unstoppable destroyer, not just some random grunt, that get's btfo'd by Revenants hiding in corners (lol)

 

This right here says everything. What you believe should be in a doom map/how monsters should be used is completely different from what I believe. I believe that all mid/high tier enemies can easily be used to your advantage with some clever footwork. Revenants can be easily painlocked, Mancubi are perfect for causing infighting, same as Arachnotrons.

Also good catch on the Ancient Aliens throwback, because that's exactly what it is; an homage to one of the most fun wads I've ever played.

 

4 hours ago, leodoom85 said:

Pros:

• The atmosphere of the map sets the tone perfectly...even those ambient sounds are fine to add more depth to it.
• I really like that there are 2 "separated areas" which adapts your gameplay a lot. While you have more quick actions in surface, underwater has a pressured gameplay. Air is your priority when you kill those bastards in a swift way. And surface is not different, so that the player must be alert at all times.
• The custom Hades Elemental monster was a nice addition...hard to kill, teleport ability and projectiles with a good spread.
• Surprise for blue key!!! Nice trap there which players will be caught badly :P
• Lots of secrets which helped a lot.
• The beginning was quite moody to build what have ahead. Liked it.
• Ammo and health has the right amount. Make every shot counts while being unharmed because there are some nasty traps out there!!!
• Autosaves. I didn't saved manually since it was not necessary.

 

• Thanks! Ambient sounds can really add to make a map more than it would be without them, and I tried to put that to test in this map. Seems like it worked!
• Glad that you liked the underwater parts! TBH that was one of my concerns when making this map, since it's barely used I was affraid people would not like it.
• The Hades Elemental that I used is a nerfed version of the original that is meant to be a flying baron of sorts.
• I felt evil designing that trap! :D
• Heh, I like finding secrets so I always end up putting too many in my maps.
• I wanted to tell a short story of sorts, create some tension so that when shit went down, people knew it was coming.
• Finally I got the ammo right it seems! When I released the map it had very little ammo unless you found the secrets.
• Good stuff! I added them to help reduce frustration and generally help players.

4 hours ago, leodoom85 said:

Cons:

• Although that it was quite unexpected to have a cybie and use him to infight what you have around, some players might not like it. My opinion is that you keep it, because it adds even more pressure to the player and, in that way, the player is more focused on it. It's up to you to change the monster depending of the difficulty though.
• Some fights are a bit cramped. That depends of the player's skill to take decisions of going all-out or doing it meticulously.

 

• The cyber will stay, that's one of the things I set in stone when I started the map all those months ago. I know some people might not like it, but overall I think it really enhances the map.
• Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. I impossed a size limit on myself that was honestly kind of dumb in retrospect, but since the fights can still be done without too much trouble, I consider it a minor issue.

4 hours ago, leodoom85 said:

The map itself is well detailed with the pretty well known Plasma track from Duke Nukem. Lighting is also really good and those lighting effects plus the ambient sounds that a tech base has to offer can bring an interesting experience. Difficulty of the map is hard, which I appreciate it (I played in UV and I died once for a first attempt) and gives a proper challenge to the player. Ammo and health should be used right, like I said before. I kinda expected some kind of last boss after the exit while descending to that lift but, it's an ok ending after all the madness of the map. 

Enemy topic is well used for each area, especially some viles and the Hades Elemental ones. One thing though....I haven't found the plasma gun and the blue door XD.

Overall, it's a nice-looking, hard map that the player must stay sharp and use the best of skills to survive. Thumbs up!!! 

 

Glad that you liked it! I had a lot of fun designing it, and while it was supposed to be the start of an episode, I think it works just find as a standalone piece. 

As for those secrets that you are missing...

 

Spoiler

Both are in the east wing of the base; in the area with imps hidding behind some columns that also has a lift to the yellow colored area. Press one of the walls in the back.

 

[Aquila Chrysaetos]

I had Chrome on in the background, hence my 10-15 constant frames. It worked out in the end rather nicely.

I agree the cyberdemon should be kept, however, if I may, I'd like to suggest opening the area up a little more so the cyberdemon has a wider range, like in Dimension of the Boomed MAP01.

Obviously not in this map, since it's already on idgames, but maybe in future maps.

If you're planning to make an episode like this, I'd gladly play it, and I imagine I'd enjoy it very much.

[loveless]

19 hours ago, bemused said:

 So you are taking time out of your day, commenting negatively on something the OP spent time and effort on, verbally shitting on it because it doesnt match your "beliefs"? You *believe* that cybs "should" be used like this and midtiers "shouldn't" be used like that... how about just finding something that suits your sedate playstyle, which matches your expectations of a guided map tour? 

  

  

Ouch, hit me right in the hallways.

[A.Gamma]

19 hours ago, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

I had Chrome on in the background, hence my 10-15 constant frames. It worked out in the end rather nicely.

I agree the cyberdemon should be kept, however, if I may, I'd like to suggest opening the area up a little more so the cyberdemon has a wider range, like in Dimension of the Boomed MAP01.

Obviously not in this map, since it's already on idgames, but maybe in future maps.

If you're planning to make an episode like this, I'd gladly play it, and I imagine I'd enjoy it very much.

Ah that explains the FPS problems.

As for the arena size, I can see your point and definitely will take it into consideration if I ever remake the map/complete the episode. But that's unlikely to happen anytime soon as I want to focus on another project for now.

[leodoom85]

@A.Gamma

 

[A.Gamma]

Lol'd at him saying the rooms are too cramped and too full with monsters. Guess I should have included a disclaimer about the difficulty

Edited November 24, 2018 by A.Gamma

[taufan99]

^{Cross-posted from ZDOOM Forum}

Just finished it with 4 out of 10 secrets found. Gotta say I like the overall concept. I especially find the claustrophobic underwater passages noteworthy, but also feel like we could've got more ocean parts + deep sea fear (just imagine the cryptids possibly out there!).
Otherwise this is fantastic!