Whats up with the Doom 64 engine?

[Edward850]

6 hours ago, GoatLord said:

I don't think you lose any functionality by doing everything in UDMF with the Retribution resource.

You lose Doom64's 30hz timing. It's subtle but it changes the timing of everything and it can't be accurately replicated from any PC port. UDMF can have as many features as it wants but it still won't be the same game.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Edward850

[Dexiaz]

13 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

I know the poll already said most people want EX, but seeing as it appears most of the people at the time of voting were not actually aware that Gzdoom can do Doom 64 style lightning after all, do you think maybe people should vote again/reconsider? The lightning system was the single biggest benefit of Doom 64 so if that is in Gzdoom anyway that kind of defeats the point.

 

I think I know what's the point.

 

Remember PSX Doom TC: The Lost Levels? Now look at the "PSX Doom: Master Edition". This is a BIG difference while both projects makes the same things.

 

GZDoom imitation versus Vanilla experience. Yeah, D64EX is not the true N64 version, but nobody can hack N64 Doom at present days. So, D64EX is the "Classiest" thing. And this is why it should stay here, not on GZDoom.

[JBerg]

I'd love to see a community project have the same limitations that Doom64 had.

 

Kind of tempted to try mapping for it too.

Edited October 3, 2018 by JBerg

[Koko Ricky]

10 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

You lose Doom64's 30hz timing. It's subtle but it changes the timing of everything and it can't be accurately replicated from any PC port. UDMF can have as many features as it wants but it still won't be the same game.

Can you elaborate on the 30hz timing?

[Gez]

34 minutes ago, GoatLord said:

@Gez, is this something supported by GZDoom Builder?

No. You need GZDoom Builder-Bugfix instead. GZDB was discontinued long before this feature was added.

 

With GZDBBF, you get this:

 

 

Just now, GoatLord said:

Can you elaborate on the 30hz timing?

PC Doom has 35 tics per second, Doom 64 has 30 tics per second. So the game is slightly slower on console.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Gez

[Edward850]

3 minutes ago, GoatLord said:

Can you elaborate on the 30hz timing?

PC Doom runs at 35Hz. Doom64 runs at 30Hz. All frame timers in doom run off interger timers, so all the timers in Doom64 are mathematically incompatible with PC Doom without changing the games internal tic speed.

3 minutes ago, Gez said:

PC Doom has 35 tics per second, Doom 64 has 30 tics per second. So the game is slightly slower on console.

More different than slower, seeing as the frame times and timers were changed as well.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Edward850

[hardcore_gamer]

I understand where you people are going with wanting the project to be as close to that classic Doom 64 feeling as possible, but honestly if the difference in speed is only 5hz then does it even matter? I wasn't even aware of the speed difference until you just pointed it out.

[Edward850]

 

13 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

I understand where you people are going with wanting the project to be as close to that classic Doom 64 feeling as possible, but honestly if the difference in speed is only 5hz then does it even matter? I wasn't even aware of the speed difference until you just pointed it out.

Well I mean if you want we could just play Doom like this from now on:

It's the same thing, right?

[Koko Ricky]

I think the question to answer here is: "What sort of experience does this project aim to give Doom 64 fans?"

[kb1]

I really like the idea of creating some documentation along the way, while discovering how Doom 64 mapping works. It's not going to be that much different than Doom, and it's obviously an area of Doom history that sorely needs to be understood better.

 

I would suggest a couple of preliminary steps: I would alternate between loading the original maps, and creating tiny test maps to test out features found in the originals. And document your findings! This is a straight-forward, hands-on approach that should provide repeatable results. I would avoid getting hours into a new, complex map, only to find that you don't know how to pull off an effect.

 

I'd also suggest making a backup of your current map, after each change. Use current date and time to name the files, and use "YYYY-MM-DD_hh-nn-ss" in your filename (So, for today, at 4:36:08 pm, use something like MAP01_2018-10-03_16-36-08.wad. If you use that exact date/time format, with all leading zeros, your files will naturally sort in proper date/time order when sorting by filename. And, it will be easy to go back and forth between versions, which is important when learning how a new mapping trick works. Making backups are easy, and hard drive space is cheap.

 

Best of luck! I think, after a small handful of tests, you'll nail it.

[hardcore_gamer]

2 hours ago, Gez said:

No. You need GZDoom Builder-Bugfix instead. GZDB was discontinued long before this feature was added.

 

 

Where can I find this updated version? I am using the latest download from the gzdoom website but I don't see any Doom 64 style lightning options.

[Kore]

I see, so things have evolved a lot after all.

Anyway, make a new thread or use the old one, and let the mappers who are willing to contribute reconsider. Yeah, I wouldn't trust that poll.

[Edward850]

I figure I will chuck in my final 2 cents:

If you want to make a Doom64 project, it'd be nice if you guys actually try and make a Doom64 project. Doom64Ex is objectively Doom64. ZDoom and ZDoom mods are not Doom64, and doesn't even come close to running functionally similar. You have the chance of doing something great, and mostly notably something first, don't squander it because you are uncomfortable with having to do things differently for once.

 

I mean even @Xaser wanted to see it done with Doom64Ex. Since when did Xaser's word become suddenly meaningless around here?

Edited October 3, 2018 by Edward850

[StevenC21]

@Edward850 I'll be assembling the .wads together, and we are definitely using EX.

[kb1]

38 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

I figure I will chuck in my final 2 cents:

If you want to make a Doom64 project, it'd be nice if you guys actually try and make a Doom64 project. Doom64Ex is objectively Doom64. ZDoom and ZDoom mods are not Doom64, and doesn't even come close to running functionally similar. You have the chance of doing something great, and mostly notably something first, don't squander it because you are uncomfortable with having to do things differently for once.

 

I mean even @Xaser wanted to see it done with Doom64Ex. Since when did Xaser's word become suddenly meaningless around here?

Thanks - I wanted to say that, but I've said enough controversial crap for the past couple days, anyway :)

Challenges are fun - especially for Doomers! Again, start small, and see what you can do.

 

34 minutes ago, StevenC21 said:

@Edward850 I'll be assembling the .wads together, and we are definitely using EX.

Good for you - glad to hear it! I'm rooting for you.

[Gez]

10 hours ago, hardcore_gamer said:

Where can I find this updated version?

https://devbuilds.drdteam.org/gzdbbf/

https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?t=54957

[StevenC21]

Alright. Official Project thread is up!