The DWmegawad Club plays: Doom 404

[TheOrganGrinder]

1 hour ago, Capellan said:

Nah, you're supposed to notice that one of them is lit up (though the automap is a back-up way to find it).

I didn't notice a difference in light levels, but the fact that one of them was recessed into the wall while the other was just part of the texture is what drew my attention.

[Capellan]

8 hours ago, Hells Kitchen said:

MAP15

I'm guessing the super shotgun is supposed to be a secret, but never got the ding.

 

Nah, not a secret.  Just something a little different.

[Phobus]

The light difference was there, but it was subtle in GZDoom. The recessing was a bigger hint, as it made it stand out on the automap.

[Capellan]

The recessing is necessary in order to have a light difference, of course, and the light difference also makes it easier to notice the recessing as you walk past (HAK3180 picked it up that way, for instance).

 

I hope those of you about to play map31 have read the text at the end of map15 :)

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP31: Nazi Shooter!

 

Does pretty much what it says on the tin; there's Nazis, and you're invited to shoot them, though compared to MAP31 of Doom II the player is treated to an extra dimension of freedom with some up-and-down exploration going on.  I spent quite a bit of time running around looking for the third secret before I realised just what had happened; all three depend on recognising deviations from established patterns, and the third should be obvious after the first two yet I must have walked past it half-a-dozen times, looking for out-of-place details in other parts of the map entirely.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP15: Password Protected

100% kills, 3/3 secrets

 

Didn't care for this one as much as it just left me a bit underwhelmed... but I did play the version with the monster closet full of deaf (or at least not-easily-alerted) monsters and had to wander a bit wondering why I had all three secrets but only 85% kills. I noticed the exit sign right away due to the recess, even without minimap, but I suspect that's something easy to see in HD that wouldn't be for people playing lower resolutions. I imagine the light difference can be somewhat hit-or-miss depending on port and settings as well. The 'puzzle' for the secret level left me a bit cold since it's simply just lifting and lowering without much thought, I was kinda hoping it might be like the one in the secret level of Super Mayhem where every switch lifted multiple parts so you had to plan ahead. Probably a lot more complicated and difficult to do under the line limit though.

[Phobus]

MAP31 - As is often the case, I don't like Wolf3D levels. They're over-scaled, hamstrung by lack of enemy variety, blocky and flat. This level adds a little height variation, but is still not much good. The secret hunting was more about recognising patterns and remembering that the third secret will be the secret exit. It's over quickly enough, at least.

[gaspe]

MAP31: I was expecting much worse. I liked the use of walls with tiers of multiple textures, it gives a nice 3d feel. At least there's some height variation but it doesn't improve so much the level as the architecture is made all of cubes with the 128x128 grid that also make the level to look overscaled. The secret exit was very painful to find, and it looks like the super secret level is another Wolf3D themed map.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP31: Nazi Shooter!

100% kills, 3/3 secrets

 

Not much to add that wasn't already said - not a fan of fighting these hitscanner bastards (especially since I didn't find the armor secret until relatively late), and while the use of multiple textures on the walls was nice there's only so much you can do with the Wolf3d concept. The intermission text is cute at least.

[Summer Deep]

MAP15: This unfolded into quite an entertaining and well-balanced level. There was a lot of running around early on, either to escape from the Baron and avoid the Mancubus fireballs, or to try to provoke a degree of infighting and gather a critical mass of ammo, then cursing the wad author as I ran out of luck. It all came together quite nicely on the third attempt though, with the later acquisition of the SSG making it a lot easier to deal with the Cacodemons and the horde of pink demons which emerged from the monster closet. I found all three secrets, which qualifies me to play the first secret level: if I play it at all though, it'll be after the main wad is finished.

 

100% kills, 3/3 secrets.

 

 

 

MAP16: Déjà vu and all that, eh? Wonder what the first players of Shareware Doom in 1993 would've made of this. The wad seems to be wandering into quasi-slaughterish territory from time to time, though the stuff in this map is still pretty manageable. First BFG I've seen so far - have I missed one earlier in a secret? 

 

100% kills, 2/3 secrets.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Summer Deep

[Capellan]

Not supposed to do map 16 until tomorrow :)  It's map32 today.

 

[Summer Deep]

^ Sorry, I misunderstood an earlier post of yours, which I took to imply that the secret map commentaries were to be posted after those on map 30.....

 

:|

[Spectre01]

MAP31 - “Nazi Shooter!” FDA-Max: d404-S01-31-FDA-Max.zip

Thankfully this Wolf3D tribute isn't as long, mazey, and full of backtracking like some others. There are also lifts for some kind of height variation. The intro can be quite dangerous if you get got in some SS crossfire, and early ammo is limited to what you can scavenge from dead Nazis. Thankfully, due to their erratic aim, it is quite easy to provoke infighting while you take some cover. I don't know if the Keen secrets were marked, but I found them by random wall-humping. The secret exit could be seen on on the automap as a wall in the starting room though.

[Capellan]

The secrets are marked. They're always marked in my maps. They can be subtle, though I don't think the ones in this map really are.

[Spectre01]

MAP32 - “Thule” FDA-Max: d404-S01-32-FDA-Max.zip

Good thing this wasn't another Nazi map as the start had me thinking. There is a pretty big fight featuring a couple of Viles and a Cacoswarm mixed with some ground enemies. I think I picked this up back in Scythe map24, where this scenario presents some nice infinite-height cheese by shooting Cacos with rockets from a higher elevation and having the splash take care of most ground enemies at the same time.

[Capellan]

Fixes to map 07 (the nukage pillars are tagged as lifts now, so you can lower them after they raise), map21 (some cacos will wake when they are meant to) and map27 (secret tags).  Also fixes to the missing/wrong level names in the dehacked (maps 29 and 30).

 

Download link updated.

[Phobus]

MAP32 - I was glad to see the Wolf3D stuff end quickly. I got through the entire map not using any plasma, thanks to turning up fully-equipped. Didn't find any secrets until everything was dead, so I left fully-equipped as well. Pretty fun arena battle that you fight in three waves (counting the 16 SS as a wave), with just a few enemies lurking round the sides. Definitely an improvement over the previous secret map.

 

As a recommendation @Capellan (assuming it's not already been done), if you mark the two pillars closest to the entry with the "secret" tag, players like me won't think they're going to open up in some way. As things stand, you can see on the map that effect used to stack the textures is having a zero-height sector. The rear pillars don't suffer this, though.

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP32: Thule

 

I like the neat and somewhat playful transition this map offers, from the secret levels back into the main flow of gameplay; "Oh great, more Nazis - AH!  Not just Nazis!"  As an arena-type map populated heavily by cacodemons it's reminiscent of MAP11, though the ground troops are much tougher this time, and the only death I suffered that wasn't a consequence of my own misplaced rockets came from the ambush at the yellow key, which gives the player a lot of incoming enemies to manage and not a whole lot of time to figure out target priorities.  I enjoyed the placement of secrets here and I'll be going into the next map as fully topped off as the level set permits.

[Capellan]

I had great fun making map31, mostly because I invented this whole set of rules about how "Nazi Shooter!" level design actually worked, and then built the map so that it (looked like) it obeyed those rules.  If Doom 2 actually supported 3 or 4 different Nazi enemies, I probably would have just done two secret levels of that kind.  But it only has the one, and it was pretty apparent that from a gameplay perspective, the gimmick wouldn't stretch any further.  Thus, Thule's quick transition back.

[gaspe]

MAP32: It's a bit of a mishmash of the usual themes we have seen so far, caves, some tech plus there's also the transition from the Wolf3D stuff which was nice. The gameplay is staged on 2 big fights: when you reveal the whole area and later when you pick up the key. Fun stuff.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP32: Thule

100% kills, 3/3 secrets

 

I was thinking about playing this on continuous since the secret levels are arguably designed for such, but tried it on pistol start anyways and it wasn't that much more difficult (aside from just needing to play it safe at the start with the hitscanner nazis). A couple of big arena fights with plenty of room to run around in, which is nice. Of course in Capellan fashion it's not the yellow key platform that's trapped, it's jumping off the platforms leading up to it, so running upstairs and leaping off to the side to avoid the trap doesn't help. :) I assume the level is named after the mythical land the Nazi occultists thought was the origin of the Aryan race?

[Capellan]

@Magnusblitz The name is named after the Thule Society, who were in turn named after the mythical land, so basically yes.  I wanted a name that had both Nazi and occult heritage, given the mixture of themes on the map.

 

 

[Phobus]

MAP16 - I've received the BFG9000 and immediately had use for it. A lot of the skill in this map comes from anticipating where the nearest monster closets are opening up and getting a good BFG hit in before the population of the ones further away get close to you. The only time this idea doesn't work is where there's an AV behind a Revenant in a narrow space, as that is the nearest closet, but isn't much good for a BFG shot. I got blocked by space-filling Demons and Spectres a couple of times, which let more effective enemies land a few hits. Good enemy usage all round, by the metric of effectiveness. The map itself resembles E1M1 from Doom and even plays like it for a little. I'd have been happy to hear D_E1M1 for this, rather than the default MAP16 music. As is becoming the norm here, I found myself taking a lot of damage and feeling like it was my fault.

[Hells Kitchen]

MAP16

Few things make me happier than an E1 remake :D  This follows the layout and appearance of E1M1 closely, just wish there was an E1 soundtrack to go with it. Best part was the BFG pickup - make sure you ready your rocket launcher or said BFG for some super fun happy times ;) :D  All hell broke loose after grabbing the key with an archvile, revenants, demons, spectres, knights, hitscanners, cacos and a PE streaming into the computer room. I tried to beat a retreat outside to the BFG room, but got stuck on a lamp post and took a revenant missile, dropping me to 40%, then down to 18% as I took hits during the fight. The archvile was nice enough line up with my BFG. The BFG was very useful all round and more or less saved my ass. Found all 3 secrets. Monster usage was good here, reminded me of the first few maps, looks like the wad is returning to its former glory. 

Edited October 17, 2018 by Hells Kitchen

[gaspe]

MAP16: Mixed feelings here. The levels, with some exception, so far lacked some broader concepts and this is the kind of stuff that I would have liked to see more in this episode but this sudden remake of E1M1 feels out of place here. This map would work better if it was put in one of the secret slots instead.

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP16: DeFrag

 

I guess the implication here is that we've stumbled upon some remnant of an uninstalled application or a disconnected piece of map information left over when a file was relocated, that we're enacting the defragmentation of this data, cleaning up the system's mess as we go along?  That would explain why we've suddenly stumbled into an E1M1 tribute, anyway, though there are enough tricks, tweaks, additions, and monstrous hordes present that I'm disinclined to call it a simple remake.  There's a lot of monsters to get your teeth into here, and fortunately you're given quite the set of cutlery with which to set about taking them apart, in particular the WAD's first BFG along with a reasonably generous supply of plasma to feed the beast.  The priority target for that particular toy is, of course, the arch-vile that emerges from a hidden passage behind the start point, but in other encounters it's a handy way to thin out mixed crowds of lesser demons before you're swamped.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP16: Defrag

100% kills, 3/3 secrets

 

Yeah I'm curious to know the storyline behind the E1 remake here. The multiple red key paths are interesting, I tried the exit one first, died and decided I should try the other one, only to figure out that maybe the first one wasn't so bad after all on a second try. The fights aren't huge but the monsters can be dangerous in the close quarters if you get pinned down, especially if like me you forget you have the BFG after using it on the zombie horde and vile.

 

I'd have been happy to hear D_E1M1 for this, rather than the default MAP16 music.

 

I believe only the first 15 maps had the custom music done, just unreplaced D2 music from here on out.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Magnusblitz

[Capellan]

Music: Confirming there's no new music after map15, right now.  Map16 will get something E1-ish (either a wholly new track or an existing suitable one) before the final release.  Suggestions for existing tracks to use for maps 16-32 are welcome.

 

Map16 name/design: As far the the name goes, DeFrag => Frag => "let's intro the BFG here and have a scene where you can insta-gib a whole mess of zombies with it".  The e1m1 look came about separately.  For people who played the secret maps (and even moreso, just map31), I wanted a "welcome back to Doom" moment.  For those who did not, it's like a surrogate callback.  "Well, you didn't get the Wolf3d gimmick, so have a Doom gimmick instead".  And I figured e1m1 is the most instantly recognisable map for the largest number of people.

 

Poll time: Did anyone get the map16 SSG before going through the red doors?

 

[TheOrganGrinder]

10 minutes ago, Capellan said:

Poll time: Did anyone get the map16 SSG before going through the red doors?

 

I for one did not.  (Actually I didn't get it until my end-of-map secret hunt, after clearing out the monster population entirely.)  Is there a way to get up there that doesn't require going through the red doors?  Maybe it can be done with an arch-vile jump...

[Magnusblitz]

Me neither, and I assume from reading the textfile that the only way pre-red doors is an AV jump. And if you think I'm eating an AV hit with the meager amount of health around (three stimpacks I think pre-red doors?) you're mistaken!