The DWIronman League dies to: Doom 64 for Doom 2

[Alfonzo]

October, 2018

 

> Download Doom 64 for Doom 2
> NaZa's unofficial leader board

 

Leaderboard

1. [2] Survived +2 [3:22:53] Bloodite Krypto - Is Bloodite's continued dominance too expected to be impressive? Only if you're a chump.
2. [2] Survived +0 [4:19:00] Roofi - Back on the winners' list, baby! Motherdemon gets chewed up like a witchetty grub.
3. [2] Survived +0 [4:36:04] leodoom85 - Didn't I try to school this kid in the JoM tutor hall, one time? Guess I'm the one getting schooled, now.
4. [2] Map29: Aquila Chrysaetos - At four and a half hours, his eyes must have been starting to fizz. Nightmare imp caps off a stressful encounter.
5. [2] Map27: an_mutt - Passed through the human shredder that is that chaingunner trap. The Britbowl is going down to the wire.
6. [2] Map27: WH-WIlou84 - I'd need to go back and check, but I feel like Wilou has a dodgy track record with crushers.
7. [2] Map22: Alfonzo - Forgot to put on my dancing shoes. Did that arch-vile trap in Oscillation teach me nothing?
8. [1] Map22: Beginner - This blind man will be seeing yellow behind his lids for the rest of October (not that he could describe it to you).
9. [3] Map22: Dragonfly - Done in by a poxy little inescapable pit. After that much playing time, as well...
10. [2] Map19: antares031 - Swarmed by a bunch of lost soul JERKS after falling into a bloody trap.
11. [2] Map31: Bashe - Makes Hectic in excellent nick and good time, but couldn't keep his balance in the BK fight. What a show!
12. [2] Map31: Anima Zero - Dogpiles onto Bashe's still-bobbing corpse.
13. [3] Map31: Fiendzy - Tangled up in a spiders' Hectic web. (illegal comp settings)
14. [2] Map31: SSGmaster - This BK balancing act is giving the map02 nonsense a run for its money.
15. [2] Map11: dt_ - Blammo! A point blank kiss on the cheek.
16. [2] Map11: Bdubzzz - Cyberdemon finally listens to mum and stops playing with its food.
17. [1] Map11: Suitepee - Follows in the footsteps of our hero Bdubzzz and is bundled out of the Britbowl. Good luck next year, John!
18. [2] Map09: Vince Vega - Holy shit, the red key markers were actually the most dangerous monsters in the room. The legend is real.
19. [2] Map08: SiFi270 - Could have died of starvation trying to solve that lift puzzle before the nightmare imps got him.
20. [3] Map06: HexaDoken - The power outage was probably a mercy response to reaching the omega puzzle. (DNF)
21. [3] Map06: NaZa - Out of the frying pan and into the fire... and into the wall with a rocket launcher. Dignity intact!
22. [2] Map06: Malrionn - Restored symmetry to the room by throwing himself over the side of the platform opposite NaZa.
23. [2] Map06: DaIcemann76 - Not even Da Ice Mann could keep his cool with this omega puzzle. Dignity... intact?
24. [1] Map06: Crusader No Regret - Stood his ground and let 'er rip with the plasma gun like a champ.
25. [2] Map05: Agent6 - A disciple of RjY; calls it quits after the half-hour mark. (DNF)
26. [3] Map05: Pegleg - Couldn't pivot on his one good leg in time to dodge a hell knight fireball.
27. [2] Map04: DMPhobos - I was banking on a 79% health revenant quip but that sergeant was a fast talker.
28. [1] Map04: Catpho - You got the chaingun!
29. [1] Map04: Liberation - That hell knight has probably been kicked out of every casino in the underworld.
30. [1] Map04: Urthar - Dimension of the BONED hehehe.
31. [2] Map02: duvel - I feel bad. Class action lawsuit coming right up?
32. [1] Map02: Eris Falling - Painful to watch; even more painful to experience. PUZZLED AND CRUSHED (sorry, Eris!)!
33. [1] Map02: JudgeDeadd - Ouch! Another sorry sap pinned to the ceiling. PUDDLED AND SMOOSHED!
34. [2] Map02: NoisyVelvet - "Solved" the puzzle before stepping into a begibbed hallway of green solvent for fun. SMUBBLED AND FLOOSHED!

 

What is the Doomworld Ironman League?
The DWIronman League is a monthy competition in which participants aim to survive for as many levels as possible in the given map set, preferably in one sitting. Click the spoiler tag below for a detailed list of rules. Players of all levels of ability are welcome. It could change the way you play Doom!

 

In October 2018 The Doomworld Ironman League dies to a classic take on one the community's branded favorites: Doom 64 for Doom 2, -complevel 2 (Doom (strict)), released just two months ago! If you're familiar with the source material developed by @MidwayGames in 1997, an introduction still wouldn't go amiss; because this megaWAD isn't a one-for-one reconstruction using Doom 2 assets. Creative liberties, chaingunners and revenants have been embraced to ensure that the demands of the modern player are met and duly agitated, all while keeping with the spirit of the original. Expect nightmarish puzzles, nightmarish imps, and some cool re-imaginings that could be the Unmaking of you!

 

Just kidding, there is no Unmaker in D64D2.wad. Happy trails!

 

Note:

1. For the average Cat 1/2 player, surviving the set should take about 3-4 hours.
2. If you have played Doom 64 or EX before, in part or in full, then your run will be Cat 2.
3. If you play Doom 64 this month before attempting your run... that's Cat 3!
4. The WAD is outfitted with some cool frills that only take effect in advanced ports.
5. MAP33 will not be played, as was the case with 50 Monsters earlier this year.
6. Secret exits are discovered via vanilla Doom 2 means.

 

Potential Game-stoppers and Bugs

• (PrBoom+ users): "Voodoo doll setups make use of an exploding object to push the player object.  This causes the player to take a small amount of damage, meaning it's possible that a player could be killed out of the blue or put into an undead state. We have tried to mitigate this possiblity as much as possible, but it could still happen."

prboom-plus -file d64d2 -deh d64d2.deh -complevel 2 -warp -skill 4 -record my_demo

Spoiler

• One attempt per month. Good luck!
• Demos (PrBoom+, GLBoom, Eternity or Chocolate if usable), stream highlights and single-take video recordings are the only accepted proofs. You must link to these runs in the thread. 
• UV only continous; no pistol-starting.
• No other wads unless they are purely cosmetic.
• No hard-coded cheats or features that result in behaviour beyond what is possible in the intended source port (e.g. freelook, jumping and crouching in a boom set).
• If streaming or recording videos using an advanced source port with compatability options, you must not enable any flags that result in behavior beyond what is possible in the intended source port. In most cases, this will mean that you can comfortably use "Doom/Boom(strict)" behaviour in ZDoom, for example. You must also display these settings on-screen before your run.
• If you choose to stream your run rather than provide a demo and you die before completing a single level, either on map01 of a set or because of a single level being selected for the month, you must display the number of monsters killed/remaining in the level before you quit. The number of kills registered will determine your ranking versus other players who died on that level.
• You do not have to play the secret levels in order to register a complete run. However, a player who finishes the game having completed more secret levels will rank higher than his competitors.
• You cannot load a game having progressed past the save point.
• You cannot consult Doom Builder during your run to check for map details. Your viewers may, however.
• If your operating system fails during the run such that the stream/recording becomes irretrievable, you are permitted a second or subsequent attempt. Technical difficulties during streams or recordings that present as merely an impediment (i.e. the run is still observable, in the case of a stream) do not count as system failures. In these instances, you should save the game, if possible, and resume when the issue has been resolved.
• Death exits do not disqualify a run (duh!) but accidentally restarting the level before the tally screen appears will. Stay frosty!
• You are required to affix one of three numbers to your run informing the League of your degree of familiarity with the map/set played. Note that your evaluation should only take into consideration the content covered in your run (e.g. if you remember only one part of a level in a set you haven't played before but never reach that level, you should list your run as a [1] instead of [2]):

1. 
   This is a blind run. If I have played or watched any of the level/set being played before, I can't remember the details of any one area in a way that would offer an advantage over truly blind players.
2. 
   This is a familiar run. I have played or watched the level/set being played before — even if it's only one area — and can remember enough details to have an advantage over blind players.
3. 
   This is a prepared run. I played the WAD to some extent after it was announced for this month's Ironman but before declaring an official run.

Previous Threads
2016
Jenesis (winner: Demon of the Well)
Crusades (winner: Ribbiks)
Nilla Doom (winner: Demon of the Well)
Khorus' Speedy Shit (winner: Bloodite Krypto)
Perdition's Gate (winner: Bloodite Krypto)
UAC Ultra (winner: Bloodite Krypto)

 

2017
Jade Earth (winner: Bloodite Krypto)
Legacy of Heroes (winner: Bloodite Krypto)
Back to Saturn X E1 (winner: dew)
Mapgame (winner: Bloodite Krypto)
Vae Victus 1 & 2 (winner: Demon of the Well)
Disturbia (winner: Bloodite Krypto)
Insertion (winner: Bloodite Krypto)
Unholy Realms (winner: Bloodite Krypto)
Osiris (winner: Demon of the Well)
End Game & End Point (winner: Bloodite Krypto)
Oscillation (winner: Ancalagon)
Doom The Way id Did (winner: kmc)

 

2018
Combat Shock 2 (winner: Bloodite Krypto)
Coffee Break (winner: Bloodite Krypto)
Warlock's Hearth (winner: Demon of the Well)
50 Monsters (winner: Bloodite Krypto)
Double Impact (winner: Bloodite Krypto)
Rush (winner: WH-Wilou84)
The Darkening E1 & E2 (winner: Veinen)
The Plutonia Experiment (winner: Bloodite Krypto)

Interstellar Sickness & Shaman's Device (winner: leodoom85)

Edited November 1, 2018 by Alfonzo
I am an update.

[Alfonzo]

Apologies for the complete lack of attention given to the OP in September. I know some of you like reading the obituaries! Rather than scramble back over the old demos I think I'll just concede defeat and focus on the month ahead.

 

Good luck, all! Go team @Suitepee!

[NaZa]

This looks like it might be fun, but I doubt I'll place well.

[seed]

Would you look at that, gonna be a Category 2 this time since I have recently played D64D2.

 

I wonder how quickly I'll die xdd.

[Liberation]

5 hours ago, Alfonzo said:

 

1. For the average Cat 1/2 player, surviving the set should take about 3-4 hours.

 

Wishful thinking :-P

[leodoom85]

I'll do this mapset at this saturday or sunday (as long as I don't get interrupted argh!!!(yes, that happens to me sometimes)). Funny thing is, I know Doom 64 but I haven't played this variation of the original thing, so, technically this should be a blind gameplay for me...not going prepared this time cuz yolo!!!

[Revved]

Died at the end of Map 6.

Category 2, I guess. I've played Doom 64 before, but I get lost outside of the first several maps, so I never really played it beyond that.

d62d2rev.zip

Edited October 2, 2018 by Revved

[Aquila Chrysaetos]

d64d2-dwil-AC.lmp

 

Dead, MAP29.

I can't tell you how happy and angry I was to die, because I do not like this wad, only to die in the penultimate map.

Category 2.

[Havoc Crow]

http://www.mediafire.com/file/pz28nlq3iv7c3xx/DWIronman27_JudgeDeadd-1.lmp/file

MAP02. Died because of an instadeath trap. Hey, fuck you too, mapper.

Cat 1.

Edited October 2, 2018 by JudgeDeadd

[Bashe]

OH SHIT BOI, gonna jump on this one for sure.

 

One question though - there are alternate versions of some maps in the wad for Boom-compatible ports; are these taken into consideration? I was going to run with PrBoom+ as per usual, but I wasn't sure if playing with complevel 2 would just load the vanilla versions when appropriate or not.

[seed]

1 hour ago, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

MAP29.

 

GG, that's quite the performance.

 

Welp, at least I know who I won't race against, no way I'll make it that far.

[Tristan]

Cat 1, played this on TNS ages ago and don't remember anything except for the thing that killed me so fuck it.

6 minutes ago, JudgeDeadd said:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/pz28nlq3iv7c3xx/DWIronman27_JudgeDeadd-1.lmp/file

MAP02. Died because of an instadeath trap. Hey, fuck you too, mapper.

Cat 1.

Same. This is the first time in a while I've been actually legit fucked off by Ironman, and frankly if it weren't for the fact I've participated in every session I wouldn't have bothered submitting this.

 

[HexaDoken]

EDIT EDIT: OKAY WHOOPS NEVERMIND DNF WAS CAUSED BY ME USING KILL MONSTERS RESUME NORMAL OPERATION

 

though the trap in question is significantly unfair. because of this, I will provide you with a spoiler.

 

Spoiler

MAP02, blue key room. After you hit a switch, four doors open, each with a long corridor with a switch in the end. One of the switches lowers the blue key, the other three are traps. Those who have played original D64 could probably remember the traps being fast crushers that take 20 damage off you each, so, with high health, they could try to just guess the correct switch if they can't think up of a clue.

 

In this wad, hitting the wrong switch will instantly kill you with a slow crusher, save not allowed.

 

The clue is the floor flat. One of them will be water, rest three will be acid. The acid corridors will crush you. The water corridor will not.

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by HexaDoken

[NaZa]

I'll wait on Alfonzo's verdict before doing my run because the mostly flawed execution of that trap (as I've read) seems to be extremely and unfairly hazardous to any player, not just blind players. 

[seed]

19 minutes ago, NaZa said:

I'll wait on Alfonzo's verdict before doing my run because the mostly flawed execution of that trap (as I've read) seems to be extremely and unfairly hazardous to any player, not just blind players. 

 

That trap is supposed to be lethal in the original as far as I remember, but you can easily tell which switch is the right one because it looks different from all the others. Not much of a trap there.

 

Here however, after watching Erris' video I've noticed they all look the same, something I completely missed the first time I played it. Indeed, a rather poor execution in comparison...

[NaZa]

I saw the trap for myself and I can conclude it's utter bullshit, but at least there's a consistent way of doing it. It's not broken at all; no need to fix anything. From all the tries I did (after shooting in the first room, that is!) I always sprung the trap.

 

Also @Mechadon that's insane vanilla stuff! Pushing the limits of possibility to the max, even though it's a bit confusing. 

 

I don't know does that make me cat 1, 2 or 3 now.

[HexaDoken]

The trap is not lethal in vanilla doom 64. On a wrong guess, you get fastcrushed for 20 damage. That is all.

[SilverIce]

It's easier to solve the trap if you get a light amp visor before going in.

 

Anyway, here's my category 2 run.  Ended my own misery on MAP06 because of that damn switch puzzle.

 

d64d2.zip

[Tristan]

15 minutes ago, Agent6 said:

 

That trap is supposed to be lethal in the original as far as I remember, but you can easily tell which switch is the right one because it looks different from all the others. Not much of a trap there.

 

Here however, after watching Erris' video I've noticed they all look the same, something I completely missed the first time I played it. Indeed, a rather poor execution in comparison...

 

Spoiler

One of them (selected randomly) has a blue floor. Of course mine was IN THE FUCKING CORNER so I whizzed past it without noticing, you see it briefly at 5:39 in my video - I saw nukage in the pthers and that's not a detail I feel like I'd normally have any reason to pay attention to. Fuck's sake.

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by Eris Falling

[seed]

Just now, Eris Falling said:

 

  Hide contents

One of them (selected randomly) has a blue floor. Of course mine was IN THE FUCKING CORNER so I whizzed past it without noticing - I saw nukage in the center two and that's not a detail I feel like I'd normally have any reason to pay attention to. Fuck's sake.

 

 

9 minutes ago, HexaDoken said:

The trap is not lethal in vanilla doom 64. On a wrong guess, you get fastcrushed for 20 damage. That is all.

 

Aw, god damn it, memory really fails me these days -__-, I was wrong about both things.

[Alfonzo]

Yeah, that trap's a doozy. After the crusher shenanigans of DTWiD and Insertion I made a commitment to avoid circumstances where long, relatively easy runs could be upset by unintuitive design. This is the sort of thing I wanted to avoid! I simply didn't notice it because... well, I hadn't the mind to test every trap I already knew the solution to.

 

My main misgiving about this setup is that it's both an instant death trap and the first instance to require the player's puzzle-solving skills. Agent6 notes that it's not much of a trap anyway, since it's easily detected if you just hold up for a moment, but because it's the first such case you're likely to pull an Eris and barrel past it. Had it come after any other less punishing trap I'd have happily chastised the player for not going at the suggested pace, but god dammit you can't learn from a mistake if you're dead.

 

Selecting Ironman challenges is a tricky business. Can't win 'em all, I guess.

Edited October 2, 2018 by Alfonzo
Clarification.

[Aquila Chrysaetos]

It's also toward the beginning, so it's not like it's going to trash a stellar run.

Going in blind will make it more difficult, but you're right that it's easily detected if you slow down for just a second.

[Alfonzo]

4 hours ago, Bashe said:

One question though - there are alternate versions of some maps in the wad for Boom-compatible ports; are these taken into consideration? I was going to run with PrBoom+ as per usual, but I wasn't sure if playing with complevel 2 would just load the vanilla versions when appropriate or not.

 

Hey, Bashe. I believe there actually isn't a way to load the boom-specific maps in prboom+ as part of the same set, regardless of the complevel, so you should have no worries, here. The difference between the two versions as far as I know is in how the game handles the execution of certain scripts using voodoo dolls. ZDoom derivatives obviously get there via MAPINFO and Eternity can jump there as well, albeit manually, so they'll have a more robust experience. The demo folks will just have to grit their teeth and suffer a few clunky barrel blasts when using the terraformer :)

[Bashe]

Oh okay, I was thinking Boom also loaded them up but this makes sense.

[HexaDoken]

The real stupid part is that this trap isn't even instakill in the vanilla game, so anybody who played it, sees the new puzzle, is trying for a good time, and can't immediately spot the clue might just think "Hey, I remember this trap, it only did like 20 damage and I'm stacked on health, I should be fine if I just press randomly!". And then you die.

 

Hell, as questionable as doom64 level design was, I can't remember any single instance of an insta-kill trap of any kind in the entirety of it save for Hectic, which is a super secret level and noted to be deliberately unfair. So coming from that here, having an insta-kill puzzle sprung on you on the very second level is... jarring, to say the least.

[NaZa]

Don't feel like screenshooting at all. Managed to escape something that will definitely kill blind players in MAP06 (which I suspect will be The Map), had 29 HP at the end, decided to rush in, greeted by flamebois who pushed me into an inescapable pit. Thanks D64. Very cool! Ironic that I've been pushed there by a monster who wasn't there in the first place, as I'm informed.

 

Category 1, 2 or 3? I don't know. I checked out the MAP02 trap because it was very controversial. Upon seeing it, I realized I probably would have been able to get through it blind. Other than that I've done nothing else, I've never played Doom64 apart from knowing how to access Hectic and watching a playthrough of Hectic. That obviously didn't help me. I'd say it's a category 1 run as scouting that trap didn't help me too much.

 

Also it's the second (2¹) time this year I've died to an inescapable pit. Fourth (2²) time in toxic liquid. Eight (2³) time because of stupidity. So I've died two times stupidly to inescapable death pits. Great!

 

MAP06. Don't rush to the exit.

 

 

ironoct18_naza.zip

[NaZa]

@Revved Your demo desyncs on the first map on my side, all the other ones seem to work fine.

 

EDIT: The first map is beaten when I load it with v1.1 of D64D2, but MAP02 inexplicably desyncs. Could you please say what version you recorded this with? DEH?

Edited October 3, 2018 by NaZa

[Revved]

1 hour ago, NaZa said:

@Revved Your demo desyncs on the first map on my side, all the other ones seem to work fine.

 

EDIT: The first map is beaten when I load it with v1.1 of D64D2, but MAP02 inexplicably desyncs. Could you please say what version you recorded this with? DEH?

My version of the WAD is dated 7/13/2018, 2:39 PM. DEH is dated 7/6/2018, 8:20 PM.

I believe it's the initial version of the WAD released on that day as well, so I imagine it would be 1.0.0.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Revved

[Alfonzo]

6 hours ago, NaZa said:

Category 1, 2 or 3? I don't know. I checked out the MAP02 trap because it was very controversial.

 

This is textbook cat 3 under the current system. I know you weren't looking to cover much ground and that even stream viewers can gather more information before attempting a cat 2 run, but since we're looking to remove as much gray area as possible; you were inspecting the design of the level without declaring a run. I think in that situation we should just accept that there are no half measures and commit to preparing.

 

Also, a quick word on streamers and categories. I noticed in Suitepee's coverage of MAP20 last month that he acknowledged some assistance by chat but still declared a cat 1 stream. Certainly knowing that there's a secret invul nearby, in this instance, does sully the blindness and bump the run into cat 2... but I'm very wary of creating tension between streamers and their audience by having the performer constantly need to remind everyone of what sort of foreknowledge he/she has, and then praying that everyone got the memo before glancing at chat. If audiences were bigger and the league more popular, I'd encourage streamers to get a moderator on board so that they can cherry-pick comments and protect the sanctity of blindness. As it is, that's too big an ask, so I'm happy to just accept whatever category you select as it stood before starting the stream.

[Pegleg]

8 minutes ago, Alfonzo said:

This is textbook cat 3 under the current system. I know you weren't looking to cover much ground and that even stream viewers can gather more information before attempting a cat 2 run, but since we're looking to remove as much gray area as possible; you were inspecting the design of the level without declaring a run. I think in that situation we should just accept that there are no half measures and commit to preparing.

 

I've been thinking about this recently, especially given all the discussion about Cat 3 last month. This is my assessment. Let me know if I'm wrong or if I've missed something.

 

Category 1: Blind/Virtually No Foreknowledge

• You've never played the levels before recording your demo/stream.
• You played the levels or watched a stream of them, but this happened was so long ago (or you were so drunk/high/etc.) that you don't really remember anything of value.

Category 2: Some Amount of Foreknowledge of What is to Come

• You've played the levels before and remember enough to be advantaged over someone in Category 1.
• You've watched streams or demos of the levels recently enough that you remember at least part of them.
• You've never opened the maps in an editor or actively practiced them prior to your run.

Category 3: You Have Prepared for Your Run

• You opened the levels in an editor to look at them. This automatically qualifies you for Category 3 regardless of whatever else you have done or how much you looked at.
• You have practiced for your run at least once, regardless of how well you actually performed during the practice run or runs.
• You have played the levels so much that you know them very well (for example, ZeroMaster and Plutonia).

 

Here's where I wonder about some gray areas.

• Suppose I play the levels on a lower difficulty prior to the run. Does that count as Category 2 or 3?
• Suppose I load the levels toward the beginning of the month and just play them for fun a few times and then record a demo/stream towards the end of the month. Does that count as Category 2 or 3?

Perhaps it's all semantics, but I was thinking about this, and I thought I would bring it up with the ultimate authority on the matter.