[FINAL RELEASE] Eviternity

[Man of Doom]

2 hours ago, Bauul said:

 

I might be missing something, but how does this relate to Eviternity?

It’s namely due to the symbol that’s prominently featured on the armor (which is also a recurring symbol in the techbase aspects of the OTEX texture pack that Eviternity uses); I even made a whole backstory surrounding said symbol. Even though more and more mapsets are using OTEX nowadays, Eviternity is pretty much the one megawad that most people think of when they think of OTEX.

 

Additionally, I wasn’t really interested in just throwing on the UAC logo or the Slayer’s mark to just call it a day, so I went ahead and used what’s since been known as the “Darkstar” logo.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Man of Doom

[Youda008]

Is there any story in these maps, or it's just plain demon slaughtering?

[Dragonfly]

There's a loose narrative.

[alps]

hey man, do you know why when i playback demos recorded with -complevel 11 in real mbf, it desyncs? happens mainly on map05.

Edited December 19, 2020 by alps

[Mr Masker]

Just now, alps said:

hey man, do you know why when i playback demos recorded with -complevel 11 in real mbf, it desyncs? happens mainly on map05.

you quoted a post for something that had nothing to do with that quote.

[alps]

1 hour ago, Mr Masker said:

you quoted a post for something that had nothing to do with that quote.

its muscle memory man, i've quoted lots of stuff.

[Dragonfly]

idk, I don't write source ports.

[ReaperAA]

14 hours ago, alps said:

hey man, do you know why when i playback demos recorded with -complevel 11 in real mbf, it desyncs? happens mainly on map05.

 

What version of PrBoom+ are you using. And also what version of MBF are you using (the original 1999 version of MBF can't run Eviternity without rebuilding nodes with a different node builder as far as I know).

Edited December 20, 2020 by ReaperAA

[Andromeda]

12 minutes ago, ReaperAA said:

(the original 1999 version of MBF can't run Eviternity without rebuilding nodes with a different node builder as far as I know).

That's probably the reason, if I'm not mistaken rebuilding nodes is enough to cause a demo to desync.

[alps]

7 hours ago, ReaperAA said:

 

What version of PrBoom+ are you using. And also what version of MBF are you using (the original 1999 version of MBF can't run Eviternity without rebuilding nodes with a different node builder as far as I know).

2.5.1.4 (demo). try mbf-snm, i think you can avoid segfaults with it.

 

also are reject lumps a cause of demos desyncing?

[ReaperAA]

1 hour ago, alps said:

also are reject lumps a cause of demos desyncing?

 

No idea about that

[Xeriphas1994]

4 hours ago, alps said:

are reject lumps a cause of demos desyncing?

 

They can be, but it's mostly associated with vintage wads or incomplete complevel implementations. Is there a specific map here you think is buggy?

[AnotherGrunt]

There is a reason, why games are structured into individual levels and aren't one big map. ¾ hour maybe 50 minutes – it was fun, rest was pure chore. And that was just rolling with invunerabity (mostly), not gameplay. Visually stunning though. Good job.
8-bit dither and it looks almost like old Unreal.

[Dragonfly]

There's also a reason games are open world without any level based structure. There's also a reason it's in a secret map slot. Can't please everyone, some rate that as the best map in Eviternity. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[AnotherGrunt]

7 hours ago, Dragonfly said:

There's also a reason games are open world without any level based structure. 

Can't please everyone, some rate that as the best map in Eviternity. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Yeah, cause it's cool nowadays. Please, don't take it badly. Visually map 32 is jaw-dropping level (can't believe it is idTech1) but I just prefer smaller well structured levels (and definitely less Arch-Viles). That's all.

 

On the other note: Many have been wondering if Eviternity works under DOS and it does. To a certain extent ;-)

• The Eternity Engine 3.31 - probably the best choice for Eviternity in DOS. Works just out of the box.

  Slime trail here and there, Tutti-frutti sometimes, Sky is not properly stretched but nothing game-braking. Really.

 

Or more specifically all good till the MAP06:

 

 

So here continuous gameplay breaks. But levels after MAP06 in second chapter are OK again. All good until let's say MAP14 or MAP15. Then is lottery. 

Level is either loaded and works along its entire length or not:

 

It is shame that DOS port of EE isn't maintained anymore. It can chew reall lots. DeHackEd patch, custom monsters, big levels. Everything works. All that with free mouse-look, jumping, beautiful particle effects.

It would be really nice to have newer and debuged version. Some later levels (> 20) I've seen for the first time and they are as visually amazing as they are let's say in HD PrBoom+. And that is VGA Mode 13h in DOS!

• Doom Legacy for DOS:

 

Ok, so let's say New Game works. Everything else is simply broken. I can't recommend it.

• Marine's Best Friend release 2.04 - and that is what bugs me the most. It can't be said it doesn't work or anything. It does. But every level transition, every few minutes – this:

 

You don't kill the first zombieman fast enough? Segmentation Violation!

More than 4 zombieman teleported alive? Segmentation Violation!

Elevator in MAP03 slides one nook down? Segmentation Violation!

It's shame! I don't know where is problem. If is just my configuration or it's bad port or it is something in WAD (It isn't Dehacked lump, I know so far). Some levels do work, but most of them doesn't. It's really unfortunate.

 

Yeah and one more bug hereto:

Sleeping Beauties. But this one, I'm able to debug.

[ReaperAA]

@AnotherGrunt I am not Dragonfly, but I would recommend people to only play Eviternity on modern ports like GZDoom, PrBoom+ 2.5.1.4 onwards, Eternity Engine 4.01 or other modern Boom/MBF compatible ports etc. since Eviternity is only tested on modern ports.

 

Sure you might be able to play Eviternity with various degrees of success on the older (90s or DOS) ports, but as your own research and screenshots show, these ports have various issues when running Eviternity and thus are not recommended.

[seed]

And I myself never understood the appeal of playing wads in ancient ports at all... looks little more than nostalgia to me...

 

And I certainly do not miss those days myself...

Edited January 3, 2021 by seed

[AnotherGrunt]

@ReaperAA Ok, little reminder:

Anyway, problem mostly solved. Sleeping monsters are there (in MBF) because REJECT table lump is empty.

All I had to do is rebuild nodes, blockmap and rejects and problems with Segfault are gone. MAP01-MAP10 works perfectly in MBF2.04 (Sakitoshi build). Smooth and fast.

MAP10-MAP19 are worse because they sometimes exceed static limits of MBF. Or I think. It is probably reason why MBF crashes when loading map.

MAP20-30 not tested but usually they work. MAP32 is too big for rebuilt, zennode even won't touch that.

 

So Eviternity isn't optimized for running in legacy ports as is. Why so?

[Horus]

22 minutes ago, AnotherGrunt said:

 So Eviternity isn't optimized for running in legacy ports as is. Why so?

Nobody actually plays on these ports anymore, thus limited spare time is better spent on things such as bugfixing for the ports that are actually used 

[AnotherGrunt]

@Horus

I do. I'm nobody?

[seed]

14 minutes ago, AnotherGrunt said:

@Horus

I do. I'm nobody?

 

No, just part of a small minority and most creators are not particularly interested in catering to such a small niche, within another niche.

 

Most players use modern, actively maintained ports, and not DOSBox, or running dead DOS ports in it... If you insist on playing that way, you're on your own.

Edited January 3, 2021 by seed

[ukiro]

Please understand that "nobody" is not meant to be taken literally; Exceedingly few play using these legacy ports and engine versions. For anyone seeking an audience, making Doom levels is already a foolish endeavor, and catering to extremely niche sub groups within this already diminutive demographic seems to serve little purpose.

 

Having fun with Doom can take many forms; Playing the game, making levels, creating textures, composing midi music, tinkering with engines, or going on compatibility expeditions in mostly forgotten corners of the game's history. With Eviternity we did a few of these, but not all. As did you. I hope what we built provided some enjoyment.

Edited January 3, 2021 by ukiro

[skillsaw]

I didn't make Eviternity but here are some reasons why I only claim support for a limited set of ports for Valiant/Ancient Aliens:

 

1) It's already massively time intensive as-is to test wads across the 4-5 major MBF compatible ports.

2) Most modern ports support extended nodes which greatly reduce slime trails and thus improve the visual quality of the maps/reduce bugginess, and to me and others this is a worthwhile tradeoff

3) The number of people who play Doom wads is relatively small, and the number of people who do so in non-modern ports is a tiny subset of that group

 

Getting Eviternity running in MBF is a cool project/proof of concept if you're interested in that sort of thing, but it's your project -- Dragonfly does not claim to target MBF.exe at any point. A set of supported ports is provided in the top post in this thread for a reason. What you're asking amounts to saying "don't use features that aren't in my preferred port" but those features exist for a reason, and map designers will continue to use them (and yes, we know that doing so will rule out play with certain ports).

Edited January 3, 2021 by skillsaw

[Gez]

If anything, I think mods like Valiant and Eviternity -- by using the extra states and codepointers from MBF and therefore requiring ports that can boast the "MBF-compatible" label -- allowed the little MBF revival we have seen with that updated MBF fork on VOGONS and, later, the Woof! source port.

 

When they were developed, MBF was pretty much dead, nobody talked about running mods in the original MBF. There were, from time to time, threads about running mods in the original Boom, and of course there's always been threads about running mods in the original Doom, but MBF was forgotten about and even some of its descendants had removed the DeHackEd MBF stuff and they had to be added back in.

[Noiser]

6 hours ago, seed said:

And I myself never understood the appeal of playing wads in ancient ports at all... looks little more than nostalgia to me...

 

And I certainly do not miss those days myself...

People have different tastes. Simple as that.

Also, Doom is a 90's DOS game, so it's more than natural that some people will like to play it on DOS - even if it's not the most optimal choice for modern wads (which doesn't mean it needs to work on it ofc).

Edited January 4, 2021 by Noiser

[Diabolución]

5 hours ago, seed said:

And I myself never understood the appeal of playing wads in ancient ports at all...

 

Your card of true doomer has been irreversibly revoked.

[ReaperAA]

8 hours ago, AnotherGrunt said:

@ReaperAA Ok, little reminder:

 

 

Yes I tried to run modern MBF wads on MBF.exe, but that was for curiosity sake more than anything else. And I soon realized that trying to run them on MBF.exe was much harder than I thought and not worth the hassle.

 

And besides, even if I had them working, I would have still preferred playing the modern wads on the modern ports.

Edited January 4, 2021 by ReaperAA

[IvanDobrovski]

I don't understand what's so hard to get about "intended ports" to play a mod on. If it's not intended you will see issues, simple as that. I don't get the stubbornness at all, looks like you are just running around preaching that every doom wad that you happen to like should run on doom95 or else they are flawed. Oh and, also denying the advancements many people contributed towards the many ports that are the go-to ways to enjoy the game the best way possible...

[seed]

9 hours ago, Noiser said:

People have different tastes. Simple as that.

Also, Doom is a 90's DOS game, so it's more than natural that some people will like to play it on DOS - even if it's not the most optimal choice for modern wads (which doesn't mean it needs to work on it ofc).

 

Beg to differ, I have no desire to run old games in such an environment, I want them brought up into the modern age. Not even for curiosity's sake, no, and certainly not for nostalgia since I've got none of that to share for those clunky ass days.

 

I don't have a problem with the few people who do though. I only do when they also go on a crusade for why new content doesn't run into DOS or long-dead ports as if it is supposed to still do that. MBF.exe or Boom.exe, for that matter, have been dead for a long time, no creators are seriously targeting them anymore, as there is no good reason to. Expecting otherwise is entitlement.

 

And just because Doom is a '90s game doesn't mean that ports made for it also have to run in such an environment. I myself share no such sympathies, and if I were to develop a Doom port or fork an existing one, I wouldn't even consider running or supporting it on recent, or somewhat recent dead OSes like XP, Vista, or even 7. Sorry, if you want to stick to such OSes, then by all means, fine by me - but don't expect anyone else to cater to them like they're supposed to.

 

Unsupported means unsupported as far as I'm concerned.

 

9 hours ago, Diabolución said:

Your card of true doomer has been irreversibly revoked.

 

I was never one of your kind to begin with haha.

 

"As dark winds fade away,

No-one knows where I'm gone..."

Edited January 4, 2021 by seed

[Smite of Disrespect]

@ReaperAA 2048 units of vr is a 2020 mbf megawad that runs in mbf 2.04. i don't think anyone tested for 2.03