SIGIL v1.21 - New Romero megawad [released!]

[Kira]

6 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Fyi the deathmatch areas in sigil that have been shown on stream so far were dead-simple type "areas" with nothing in the way of interesting features.

 

And no, you can't just make maps that are cool for single player AND also have a decent standard for deathmatching, especially not when working with vanilla linedef actions and somewhat extensive single player maps. It just doesn't work.

You can if the DM part and DM starts are separate from the singleplayer area. Won't solve your issue with vanilla linedefs but these didn't prevent Judas23 or King1 from existing.

Edited February 14, 2019 by Kira

[wheresthebeef]

3 hours ago, elden4 said:

Unfortunatly I miss the pre order... I wonder if I can order once released .

do you think will be possible?

For what its worth, there's a waiting list. Might want to sign up for that and hope you get a chance.

[Nine Inch Heels]

1 hour ago, Kira said:

You can if the DM part and DM starts are separate from the singleplayer area.

You missed the point. I am arguing in favour of having seperate areas the whole time, and I am arguing against forcing a DM arena into a SP map for the heck of it, also the whole time. But evidently some people think that pulling some W1 linedef actions hackjob to transform a part of a map into a DM arena is better than doing a seperate arena, nevermind that if a mapper wanted to give the feeling of having an arena in the actual map, they could just copy+paste parts of the SP-part of the map to give it that look.

[Kira]

22 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

You missed the point. I am arguing in favour of having seperate areas the whole time, and I am arguing against forcing a DM arena into a SP map for the heck of it, also the whole time. But evidently some people think that pulling some W1 linedef actions hackjob to transform a part of a map into a DM arena is better than doing a seperate arena, nevermind that if a mapper wanted to give the feeling of having an arena in the actual map, they could just copy+paste parts of the SP-part of the map to give it that look.

Wow yes I have reread what I was replying to and I'm dumb. Yeah this is fair enough. Examples of that kind of design working are scarce.

[Gez]

10 hours ago, Hellbent said:

I read somewhere that Romero said the 9 deathmatch maps aren't separate maps but are the 9 regular maps he's releasing with deathmatch starts. O_o

 

Q: You mentioned that there’s nine levels in this megawad, as well as nine deathmatch-only levels. Are there eighteen levels in the megawad?

 

A: Actually, there are only nine distinct level wad files. It turns out that you can put both the single- player and the deathmatch levels in the same wad. If you run the wad in deathmatch mode, you spawn in the deathmatch area of the level. If you play Sigil in cooperative mode, you start in the single-player part of the level. This support has been in DOOM® since the beginning.

 

I don't see what's O_o-worthy in this, it's an long-established practice.

 

4 hours ago, NiGHTMARE said:

You can if you place the player 1 start somewhere inaccessible in DM, and then get creative with W1 lines that raise & lower floors & ceilings around the level.

Sure, but it's a lot of added complexity for the level design.

[Cynical]

6 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Believe it or not, I use a map editor every once in a while (slight understatement here), currently on almost a daily basis to get a limit-removing vanilla map done, and if anything I've seen in mapping so far tells me anything, it's gonna be a serious fucking hackjob to "isolate" a segment of a single player map in such a way that it ends up having a vague resemblence of a semi-decent deathmatch area to begin with.

 

Worked fine for Alien Vendetta ("Beast Island" is the one that comes to mind; the first open area of that, with the ruined village, is the deathmatch area.)

[VGamingJunkie]

So the physical release is being delayed but what about the free WAD itself? This doesn't really say anything about the level set, just the limited edition. Is it being delayed purely for the physical release to catch up?

[zzzornbringer]

16 minutes ago, MetroidJunkie said:

So the physical release is being delayed but what about the free WAD itself? This doesn't really say anything about the level set, just the limited edition. Is it being delayed purely for the physical release to catch up?

i don't know. if i were romero, i think i would delay the wad as well, because i would want all the people who ordered the limited edition stuffs to get their stuff with the wad. i wouldn't want to release the wad before the people get what they paid for. i would want to release the entire package, not just a part of it.

[ImpieEyez95]

59 minutes ago, zzzornbringer said:

i don't know. if i were romero, i think i would delay the wad as well, because i would want all the people who ordered the limited edition stuffs to get their stuff with the wad. i wouldn't want to release the wad before the people get what they paid for. i would want to release the entire package, not just a part of it.

 

The people are essentially paying for the music in the wad, along with artwork, box, and accessories. Not what most people are looking to actually use (the new levels). Most of these songs in the wad can be found online as well, so it's not like they're missing much if they did want to hear them, in-game or just on their own. 

 

with that said, i think it may be delayed as well, I hope not. but we'll see.

Edited February 14, 2019 by ImpieEyez95

[Nine Inch Heels]

1 hour ago, Cynical said:

 

Worked fine for Alien Vendetta ("Beast Island" is the one that comes to mind; the first open area of that, with the ruined village, is the deathmatch area.)

I said "semi-decent deathmatch area", not "crappy deathmatch area".

[General Rainbow Bacon]

Romero put deathmatch arenas outside the single player areas.  They aren't connected to what you see when you play SP/COOP.

[Hellbent]

58 minutes ago, General Rainbow Bacon said:

Romero put deathmatch arenas outside the single player areas.  They aren't connected to what you see when you play SP/COOP.

You speak as though with authority. Is this just your interpretation of what he said in the interview or do you have some other concrete evidence?

[Jimmy]

Has this pointless battle of opinions and speculation brought about by a largely ambiguous paragraph of text dragged on too long now or is it just me?

[cybdmn]

9 hours ago, elden4 said:

Unfortunatly I miss the pre order... I wonder if I can order once released .

do you think will be possible?

 

 

Only thing you can do, is to get yourself on the waiting list. But there is no guarantee that you get one, as stated on the link.

 

https://limitedrungames.us11.list-manage.com/track/click?u=51e5c55f587138a441b305c17&id=6ef6b995f5&e=0ed74694e6

[Fonze]

As has already been stated by others, you can make a good map that suits both DM play and SP play if you take the right approach... in this case designing the DM map first and then overlaying the SP experience on top of it. Arguing otherwise is... a bit silly, especially for people who don't even play DM..........................................

[⇛Marnetmar⇛]

Personally

5 minutes ago, Fonze said:

As has already been stated by others, you can make a good map that suits both DM play and SP play if you take the right approach... in this case designing the DM map first and then overlaying the SP experience on top of it. Arguing otherwise is... a bit silly, especially for people who don't even play DM..........................................

 

I also wouldn't be surprised if Romero has a few tricks up his sleeve for this purpose. From watching the streams, Sigil seems to have a lot of clever little idiosyncracies that I haven't seen in any PWAD.

Edited February 14, 2019 by Marn

[KVELLER]

Could you guys stop the derailing, please? I legit thought that the WAD had been released because of the amount of replies the thread got all of a sudden.

[MadGuy]

The real question is WHEN it will be released. Does anyone REALLY know (exact date for example) ? or we still got the "mid-February 2019" (which might mean until this Monday)?

[ImpieEyez95]

1 hour ago, MadGuy said:

The real question is WHEN it will be released. Does anyone REALLY know (exact date for example) ? or we still got the "mid-February 2019" (which might mean until this Monday)?

 

Mid-February means it would've been released yesterday to be exact, but maybe it'll be released later today, or the earliest, Monday like you say. Hopefully it's not pushed all the way to April though... 

[General Rainbow Bacon]

@Hellbent: I watched a stream where he showed these areas.

Here's a link to the stream, he doesn't show the DM areas for a while and he only shows a couple of them.

 

It's this second one that has the DM areas.  

 

E: Actually I can't find the stream that I watched that had the info anymore.  These are cool, but it looks like these are different ones from the one I'm thinking of.  You'll just have to wait and see i guess.  

Edited February 15, 2019 by General Rainbow Bacon

[ScottGray]

20 hours ago, MadGuy said:

The real question is WHEN it will be released. Does anyone REALLY know (exact date for example) ? or we still got the "mid-February 2019" (which might mean until this Monday)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_versions_of_Doom#Original_version

1.0 (December 10, 1993) - Initial release. The internal program number reads v0.99.

1.1 (December 16, 1993) - Fixed some bugs in the 1.0 release.

1.2 (February 17, 1994) - Added support for modem play and new difficulty level called Nightmare.

 

Am going to say tomorrow the 17th, that's the 25th anniversary of Doom we are all use to with Nightmare and online play.

[pcorf]

It will only be released when it is finished. This is why with my own projects I never announce a release date 6 months before only for it to end up not been complete by then.

[Linguica]

https://rome-ro.squarespace.com/news/2019/2/16/sigil-update

 

 

 

[Dark Pulse]

Well, not surprised. It'd be pretty crappy if the people who paid nothing got to play it earlier while those of us who forked over actual cash money had to wait until April, even if we get a fancier version.

 

The bright side is that it allows for both more polish as well as the possibility something might happen to try to make up for the two month delay.

Edited February 16, 2019 by Dark Pulse

[Kira]

On 2/13/2019 at 1:32 PM, Kira said:

The website says mid-February so it's out on the 14th or I ask for a refund of my free megawad.

brb asking for my refund.

[FrancisT218]

...I actually think the free download should come ASAP, if all the features that will be in it have been finalized. Music and stuff can come later - Plutonia had to wait 17 years, let alone a scant two months!

 

Maybe though Romero can make a really special bonus level in the next two months...

Edited February 16, 2019 by FrancisT18

[Kira]

Just now, FrancisT18 said:

...I actually think the free download should come ASAP, if all the features that will be in it have been finalized. Music and stuff can come later - Plutonia had to wait 17 years, let alone a scant two months!

I'm fine with that personally. The charm of receiving the box with a brand new Romero episode would wear out quite a bit for those who paid, and I can wait: we are blessed with infinite Doom content in the meanwhile.

[Nine Inch Heels]

7 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

Well, not surprised. It'd be pretty crappy if the people who paid nothing got to play it earlier while those of us who forked over actual cash money had to wait until April, even if we get a fancier version.

Except you could have played the very same free version everybody else would have had.

[FrancisT218]

Solution: Make the bonus level, make it something special, and perhaps it's exclusive to the boxed version for at least a few additional months. Of course he'll do what he wants though.

[Dark Pulse]

1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Except you could have played the very same free version everybody else would have had.

With all due respect, I can wait two months. There's some games I kickstarted in like 2015 that still aren't out yet, after all, and has blown two different release deadlines.

 

But to be fair, that game broke literally every single stretch goal they set for it twice, so anyone expecting them to do everything we stretched for in a mere 18 months is insane.

 

Spoiler

 

EDIT: Just found out the new release window is Summer of 2019. Perfect! I'll be off work then until September.

Edited February 17, 2019 by Dark Pulse
Spoiler-tagged image