SIGIL v1.21 - New Romero megawad [released!]

[Welfare Prodigy]

But apparently you don't need the keys or something.  Or maybe I had a bug or something, 'cause I didn't end up needing the keys to hit the key-switches

 

 

I noticed this too, am thinking the same as you, a bug. I noticed it after hitting the yellow switch, not realizing it was yellow coded until after I hit it so tried the red switch and same thing lol

[snapshot]

Damn, 7$, you can buy 2 full games at that price. I'll wait.

[Edward850]

7 hours ago, seed said:

My point was, that after that "review" he lost his credibility in my eyes, he clearly didn't play much of it, considering the fact that the review appeared only a few hours after the game came out if I'm not mistaken,

You've failed the occam's razor check. We handed out review keys to various people days before release.
Note that this isn't an opinion on his Sigil review, just a note that you can dislike something without inventing additional reasons. ;)

Edited May 26, 2019 by Edward850

[Job]

9 minutes ago, tempdecal.wad said:

Damn, 7$, you can buy 2 full games at that price. I'll wait.

Sorry, it looks like you must have mistyped candycrushsagaworld.com.

[SamuelNMEvander]

21 minutes ago, Pegg said:

 

If Doom 1 is the best when why is he complaining about Sigil playing like it?!

Because it's not like Episode 1 with plenty of ammo and light areas.

 

Anyway, can someone help me with progressing Nightmare Underworld? How does one lower that metal wall after the red skull door? I have no idea how to trigger that script and that one walkthrough just breezed past it like it was nothing. This is the first part where I got stuck playing on my own.

[fabian]

11 hours ago, dew said:

Are you using a port that supports mp3 playback? Crispy won't do

 

Why do you say that Crispy doesn't support mp3 playback? Of course it does. 

[noisebloom]

6 hours ago, TheUltimateDoomer666 said:

Gggmanlives finds it...disappointing.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Kind of annoying, as that's going to turn a lot of "softcore" Doom fans off, but I suppose that's how reviews work...

 

After watching this video, I'm surprised at how many utterly inaccurate or just uneducated things were stated in the video, though. Not very familiar with the guy, but he really grates on me, as a lot of his points are unintelligent or purposely emotionally manipulative, i.e. trying to evoke a strong emotional response from viewers without being precise or clear. The analogies he uses to describe his discontentment aren't even funny.

 

• He only seems to have a vague idea of the extent of Romero's involvement with various projects, including Doom. "Probably literally made the first ever Doom maps" = what a strange, imprecise remark to make. Also says "this guy was involved with" multiple times, like he can't use Google or read a book to save his life. Seems like he doesn't do his research.

 

• "...doesn't even use Doom II assets, which I think severely limits the maps that could be created..." Yes, that's true, but you're always engine/source-limited, so... pointless statement. Creating a 2D platformer severely limits the levels you can create, as well, so they may as well stop making those...

 

• "...the exit to each level is that wall texture for the Icon of Sin, that was originally only used as a decoration." Several different textures/mechanisms have been used in Ultimate Doom for exiting a level, so what's his point here?

 

• "...requires players to know that shooting certain items to activate doors and lifts is a mechanic." Yes, this episode seems to continue the spirit of gaming from a time in our world in which we generally weren't told everything, and puzzle-solving was exploratory and experimental. Also, the very first room of Sigil makes a strong implication that shooting a certain "item" will have an effect. Good game/level design shows and teases you the solution to a puzzle, as the first room clearly does.

 

• "Misaligned texture" = LOL

 

• "I don't see how this thing could have been delayed and still end of being in this kind of state." As others have pointed out, another ignorant statement.

 

• "...guy named Buckethead". This could have been a joke on his part, but he's only a very well known guitar virtuoso that has been around for quite a long time. Let me Google that for you...

 

Looking forward to play the episode myself to see how I feel about it, but I didn't even have to play to discover the dude who made this video misrepresented or misunderstood a lot of Doomisms.

Edited May 26, 2019 by noisebloom

[Mr. Duk]

I just got my download link from John, so definitely reach out to that e-mail address if you bought a version but haven't received it in the mail yet. He (or someone working with him) responded very quickly!

[wheresthebeef]

Gman usually gives contrarian views on games even when they seem to make absolutely no sense. Don't take his stuff seriously anymore, especially after the whole playing a victim when his Anthem review came out. He really went downhill since he started; put more stock in Civvie's review.

 

On topic, I like Sigil although I'm only four maps in. After the game breaking bug in map 4, I ended up hating it the most (not to mention you apparently don't need keys to press the key switches??) although I liked the setup for it.

 

*edit* Another thing I've found that in Map 4 if you take the middle path a second time, all the floors are raised again but will damage you if you step on them?

Edited May 26, 2019 by wheresthebeef

[ImpieEyez95]

Speaking of Bugs.. just played through it a bit, and some levels that have the cracked floors - are these supposed to damage the player? Because they dont. it seems like a bug, although maybe it was made that way and not intended to hurt the player when walking over them (similar cracks appeared in John's Tech Gone Bad level.

Edited May 26, 2019 by ImpieEyez95

[Linguica]

@dew and I played SIGIL:

 

 

[Super Mighty G]

Psyched to play Sigil. Going to play Ultimate Doom in its entirety first for direct comparison. Will be streaming too if anyone is interested.

https://www.twitch.tv/supermightygplays

Edited May 26, 2019 by U.O.D.

[[McD] James]

Having chatted with Gareth Robinson about Doom, I can say from personal experience that he's not as knowledgable about Doom as he presents himself as being. And when presented with information that contradicts his statements he will resort to juvenile insults. He's a thoroughly unpleasant twat. 

 

I'm looking forward to playing this when the free version is released. I'm not expecting nor am I wanting the wheel to be reinvented. Just more of what made Doom 1 so excellent. 

Edited May 26, 2019 by Ajora

[Kira]

6 minutes ago, ImpieEyez95 said:

some levels that have the cracked floors - are these supposed to damage the player? Because they dont.

I'm somehow disappointed to learn that. Not for good reasons though.

[durian]

Nice that they added the paid download option. I won't actually be able to play til after the free release, but I'm very happy to throw a little money at John.

[Lila Feuer]

Stopped watching GMan before he dropped his Manhunt review. Don't even want to know how incompetent he was at playing that. When he called Shadow Warrior 2 'bad looking' back in 2016 that should've been the first sign that subbing to him was a mistake.

[MeatSafeMurderer]

31 minutes ago, noisebloom said:

• "...requires players to know that shooting certain items to activate doors and lifts is a mechanic." Yes, this episode seems to continue the spirit of gaming from a time in our world in which we generally weren't told everything, and puzzle-solving was exploratory and experimental. Also, the very first room of Sigil makes a strong implication that shooting a certain "item" will have an effect. Good game/level design shows and teases you the solution to a puzzle, as the first room clearly does.

Imagine being stuck in that first room for a prolonged period because you can't figure out that a certain something needs to be shot inspite of all the clues pointing towards that being the solution and the fact that DOOM has had doors and stuff you needed to shoot to activate before. Once I'd cleared it out it took me all of 10 seconds to work out what to do to get out; from that point onwards I already knew what needed to be done because the first room taught me.

I've only beaten the first level so far...but I also completely disagree with his take on the lack of ammo and health. I'm playing on UV and the constant straddling of the line between having enough to pull through and not was refreshing. I scraped through to the end with 20 health before getting one shot by a shotgun guy immediately in level 2...and I LOVE IT! I couldn't imagine complaining about a game posing a challenge to you that you've already overcome. If you can overcome it then where's the problem?

[Varis Alpha]

i made it to E5M4 before stopping for the evening. i really like it, it definitely sets the tone early on and you know what to expect after that. considering that i'm a pretty huge idiot and always missing the obvious way of progression, and i was able to figure this out early on, yeah, it's not THAT bad, really.

 

it's certainly pretty oppressive on UV too, but... why is that a complaint? you're complaining that hard difficulty is hard... just turn it down then. if anything, i find it refreshing that Sigil treats Barons like this giant, oppressive behemoth now that you can't just SSG dance around them.

 

Buckethead's music is good too. i'll replay it with Jimmy's music later on, but i think it fits the mood here perfectly.

 

overall, i'm happy with the episode itself. less so with LRG's delays on the physical release (it really makes my 166+ hard spent dollars feel like it's not being treated seriously...), but at least Romero's a stand-up guy and offers the digital version as compensation for the delays. i certainly appreciate that a lot.

[Welfare Prodigy]

1 hour ago, ImpieEyez95 said:

Speaking of Bugs.. just played through it a bit, and some levels that have the cracked floors - are these supposed to damage the player? Because they dont. it seems like a bug, although maybe it was made that way and not intended to hurt the player when walking over them (similar cracks appeared in John's Tech Gone Bad level.

 

It's just like E1M8b, yes. In a way it's annoying but I do like it because it's another element of surprise, keeps you on your feet and aware.

[SteelPH]

Complaining about monster variety in an Ultimate Doom wad is like complaining that water is wet.

[Buckshot]

Some of the biggest concerns that I've heard was that a lot of the intro maps were just too dark to see anything at all. I didn't encounter this issue, however I've had gzdoom installed for some time, and I noticed in the past even with vanilla maps and other wads that, by default, gzdoom brightness setting was just too low (at least on my screen). I had brightness up to .25 or .35 or something like that, so while there's some darker areas (and some are intentionally designed like this) in the first few maps, everything was still visible.

If it's too dark, would suggest messing with gamma/brightness option in gzdoom to correct the issue (or some of the extended lighting options the port adds). Additionally, always make good use of the automap to get a better understanding of your surroundings and boundaries. Always follow the light if you can't find your way out (you'll know what I mean).

[wheresthebeef]

9 minutes ago, SteelPH said:

Complaining about monster variety in an Ultimate Doom wad is like complaining that water is wet.

I feel like the puzzles and combat scenarios John sets up more than makes up for a limited roster.

[SaladBadger]

given how pretty ehhhh doom 1's bestiary is, bringing the environment into combat and carefully constructing setups is one of the more important parts of mapping for it.

[Mk7_Centipede]

 

[DoomedFox]

I Got a free download from John being my standard box is still kicking around the postage. So far im up to e5m4 and its been a amazing experience. The darkness aspect is kinda cool being you're supposed to be in the "bad part of hell" ala "super hell" and paired with bucketheads music is a awesome touch. especially the track in e5m3. 

 

After I get done with it I am gonna play through it again with Jimmy's midi tracks, so far this has been worth the wait! :D

[DuckReconMajor]

Did an IronMan attempt of SIGIL_COMPAT and failed at the first level.

 

Did you know Jimmy of Doomworld did the MIDI version of the music? Of course you did. GO JIMMY! But I can quit avoiding news of this release now that this is done.

Spoiler

 

 

[Epyo]

3 hours ago, Welfare Prodigy said:

17 hours ago, Epyo said:

I finished it!  Here is my writeup, spoilers ahead:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I super loved it!  Very fresh!!

 

I played on UV and it took me 1-2 hours.  I died about 2-5 times, and didn't find the secret level, but played it after.

 

Some background about me, Doom remains my favorite game of all time because, in my opinion, it's all about the levels.  Levels in Doom (both official and custom levels) can be endlessly expressive, of fresh gameplay, atmosphere, fresh sense of space... in most games, levels are just the tools to bring out the programmed gameplay.  But in Doom, the gameplay is simple, but the levels are the game.  Doom truly has infinite games within it.  Other games have custom levels of course, but they just aren't interesting as Doom's.  So that's my opinion anyway.

 

So anyway, what I look for in Doom levels, is fresh expressions of gameplay, atmosphere, sense of space, all achieved through just interesting level design.

 

That's what I was hoping for with Sigil and it's exactly what I got.

 

The general atmosphere was perhaps my favorite aspect.  It's extremely indoor, and dark, but still intense.  It didn't feel like a revisit of Inferno, it felt very different, something new.  The most memorable moments I keep thinking about, theme-wise, are the levels that are cramped buildings surrounded by a giant black void.  Levels 2 and 5 were the main levels doing this.  They had a really fresh cool feeling, that I'm still thinking about.  I think the Buckethead shreds assisted way more than I expected, it really felt like the right atmosphere for the sort of badass-spooky vibe being achieved here.

 

Throughout the wad, just a general good use of darkness and dimness, with torches and stuff for contrast.  It was a very dim version of hell.  Another highlight was the cyberdemon maze in level 6.  It was a good looking, dim cavernous room, with a lot of torches and short marble walls with perched enemies.  Well designed encounter, not too gimmicky, still Doom gameplay, but fresh, and good atmosphere.

 

Another highlight was the first half of level 6, cool use of exploring/fighting through pitch black dark halls, but you can just make out enemies' outlines thanks to bright cracks in walls.  Original doom has good use of lighting, but generally didn't make you fight in extreme darkness much, so this felt pretty new.

 

But just in general, the moment-to-moment gameplay was well done, pretty much every few seconds I said "yep, that was fun".  "Yep that was weird and cool."

 

Oh, the new switch mechanic was an unexpected new fun thing, I thought.  It was fun having a new mechanic to think about while scanning rooms!

 

All in all, I'm expecting this will be among my all-time favorite wads, that I will continue to play often.  My favorite wad of all time is nerve.wad (aka no rest for the living) (seriously I worship this wad I play it like twice a year), and I doubt this tops it... although man e5m3's layout really reminded me of nerve.wad...

 

Anything bad to say?? Mmmmm I'm not sure about the end of e5m8, that was a weird finish, I have to try that one again.  The level itself was cool, just the end of it I'm not sure I understood.

 

And the crushers in e5m4, it was a well-designed part, but I got sick of it.  Well, it was kind of my fault, I explored the heck out of the crusher maze because I thought I was supposed to find a key in it.  But apparently you don't need the keys or something.  Or maybe I had a bug or something, 'cause I didn't end up needing the keys to hit the key-switches... I would have liked the part if I didn't over-explore it!

 

 

Epyo: But apparently you don't need the keys or something.  Or maybe I had a bug or something, 'cause I didn't end up needing the keys to hit the key-switches

 

I noticed this too, am thinking the same as you, a bug. I noticed it after hitting the yellow switch, not realizing it was yellow coded until after I hit it so tried the red switch and same thing lol

 

Ahhhh I thought about it, and I see what we're confused about now, it's not broken actually.  Hiding my explanation with spoiler tag just out of politeness:

 

Spoiler

 

This is E5M4 we're talking about btw.

 

Each switch is marked with a color, but the color does not represent which key you need; the color represents what the switch does--which colored bars get opened up by the switch.  

 

The level is not broken, because, you need to go down all three pathways of the level, to get all three switches to appear!  But as soon as you see each switch, you can go ahead and hit it, and open up its bars.

 

Now that I think about it, classic doom probably doesn't even let you make key-restricted switches anyway, does it...

 

 

Edited May 26, 2019 by Epyo

[Spectre01]

Here is my issue with Sigil: The actual combat is like the Hell Revealed of Ultimate Doom. There are too many Barons and Cacos for how little rocket and cell ammo these maps have. Romero is really out of touch with what makes Doom gameplay fun considering how much time is spent grinding down Barons and Cacos with the basic shotgun. And it's not like they are used in dangerous situations where space is limited, just walking/floating around and wasting your time and ammo. Most of the actual pressure comes from environmental hazards, like the crushers in map04. Finding the BFG in map06 finally gives you something efficient to kill all the crap, so hopefully the last two maps prove to be more enjoyable. No way am I pistol starting these maps. The visuals, layouts, and puzzles I have no problem with, aside from the occasional overuse of darkness. My current opinion is that Sigil is ok, but nowhere close to the best UDoom content out there. (No End in Sight for instance.)

[Epyo]

7 hours ago, vitlor said:

Where's the secret exit? I missed it. :(

 

Here is a detailed explanation of how to find the secret exit to get to E5M9, 'cause I don't think anyone else has mentioned it in this thread yet:

 

Spoiler

The secret exit is in E5M6.  There is a cavernous room in this level, with a maze of marble walls.  At some point, you'll be walking on top of the walls, and eventually you'll eventually be walking on the southern-most marble wall (according to the map).  While you're on this marble wall, face south, and you'll see a tiny crack in the wall with one of those green shootable eyeballs. Shoot it a few times to open up the secret exit.  Now continue progressing across the marble walls, until you get teleported to the southeast corner of the room, and now you'll re-enter soem caves.  You should find a large green goat-head teleporter on the ground here in these caves, this was opened up when you shot the eye.  It's the secret exit!

 

If your minimap rotates, you probably don't know which way is "south".  Well, when you enter the cavernous maze room, you're facing east, so south is to the right.

 

And here is a vague explanation on how to find the secret exit, if you just want a hint:

 

Spoiler

The secret exit is in E5M6.  There is a cavernous room in this level, with a maze of marble walls.  Explore this large room closely to open and find the secret exit.

 

[Doom64hunter]

The answer to where most of the secrets are in Sigil is "shoot the baphomet eyes"