doom episode 2 :(

[roboticmehdi2]

 

My thoughts about episodes:

 

episode 1: very good and enjoyable

episode 2: wtf is this?

episode 3: very good and enjoyable

episode 4: very good and enjoyable.

 

I can't be the only one who thinks that episode 2 is just...plain...I don't know...bad?

Bad levels, frequently stuck looking for keys, boring gameplay, simply way behind e1 and e3.

What do you think?

People must have felt bad playing e2, when they purchased full game after playing e1 on shareware?(until they got to e3)

Edited January 9, 2019 by roboticmehdi2

[Gez]

Episode 2 is the best episode.

[Hellbent]

I liked Episode 2. I thought the first level was cool as it introduced teleporters and a big part of the excitement of getting the full game was having played episode 1 to death and being curious about the new monsters and weapons in the full game. And the teleporters were a nice surprise. I also thought E2M1 was nicely atmospheric. I liked the dugneony feel, and the demons lowering was a totally new feeling in Doom after Episode 1. 

 

E2M2: Again, this was an exciting level to play as it introduced another new element I had heard about and was curious to finally experience in the full game: crushing ceilings. I loved all the secrets in this level, too. They were as fun to discover as the ones in episode 1, which probably has the best secrets of all time of any game. E2M2 is a very cool level, then and now. It has lots of interesting elements; the radioactive corridory things, the odd lower/raising floor/machine thing that lead to a cool secret, the mysterious containment area secret area, the slime tunnel that leads to nowhere, the weird, but cool contrasting red fleshy and white stone textures and finally the raising bridge to the exit. Lots of cool elements in this level. This level packs in so much coolness and originality. It's no wonder it was recently voted the best level in Doom!

 

E2M3: not my favorite level. I find it bit disappointing now, though I like the beginning area with the changing colors of the startan textures. The map didn't have much else going for it, though.

 

E2M4: One of my all time favorite doom levels. It had such a deep and grandiose feeling to it. Deep, in that you were now really deep into the episode, deep into Doom, what with the high ceilings, and the cool, hellish elements towards the end with the lava, and then that absolutely wonderful trap! I never really realized it at the time, but that floor crushing trap had a very Indiana Jones feel to it. At that point in the level, I had such a deep sense of being locked in the depths of Doom. :) Grandiose, because of the blue area, with all the slime, and the high ceilings, and the cool secrets, and twisty bridge, etc. etc. I could go on for a long time about this map; I'm surprised you did not think it was cool?

 

E2M5: The secret area with the caged baron was another iconic scene in the episode 2 experience. The extensive slime halls also had a deep in doom atmospheric feeling. 

 

E2M6: Crazy amounts of atmosphere in this level! The beginning is so bleak feeling. The floor collapses into a pool of slime! I'm really feeling like I'm on the shores of hell now! Then there's the absolutely brooding music and the dark, haunted halls and low ceiling inner-depths of the map. John Romero used lighting to great effect in episode 1, but not enough praise is heaped on Sandy Petersen for his excellent use of ceiling heights. He often had high ceilings which gave his levels such an epic and grandiose feel to them. But then he contrasted this with the stifling low ceilings and darkness I just described. I remember dreading entering that part of the map. 

 

E2M7: A solid all 'round map. The slime portal things which I guess were meant to be the spawning vats were atmospheric enough and were part of an interesting secret side mission. The lighting in this level was cool, too, and everyone remembers the dark Shawn secret where you find the blur sphere. The weird cubby room was kinda cool, and felt new and novel. The inverted cross at the end of the white stone corridor was also a memorable scene in the episode. The exit area of this level was also very cool and atmospheric. It's true, I will give you that this level is not as good as most of the episode 1 levels. It's still good, doomy fun, though.

 

E2M8: A very solid boss level with great music. It's hard for me to say which is better, episode 2 or 3; I think they're both great, though Episode 3's weak final level always left me feeling a bit disappointed after slogging through so many cool levels. I would love to hear a more in depth critique from you of episode 2, and what you thought was better about episode 3 over episode 2. 

[KVELLER]

@Hellbent No comment on E2M9?

[Deadwing]

I didn't enjoy it at first, but now it's my favorite one.

[roboticmehdi2]

Edit: added e4 thoughts.

[Nancsi]

"episode 2: wtf is this?

episode 3: very good and enjoyable"

 

They have the same quality and style. Episode 2 is the better of the two. At least it didn't have the atrocity called Slough of Dispair.

[Nancsi]

On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 6:56 PM, Hellbent said:

E2M3: not my favorite level.
E2M4: One of my all time favorite doom levels

 

Really? They look very similar to me. Only the music is better in E2M4, and it has traps. But other than that it's the same weirdo textured, mostly flat dungeon.

[amackert]

All of Ultimate DOOM is awesome.

 

/endofthreadandanyotherthreadlikethis

[roboticmehdi2]

Well, in that case it's me only :)

[Boondorl]

E3 has some pretty...questionable levels in it. E4 is where it becomes too incohesive for me. You can bump up the gameplay without sacrificing aesthetic and level cohesion. Many modern Doom level designers have basically perfected this, even when limiting themselves.

 

E2's low variety is easily the biggest problem with Ultimate Doom as a whole: the lack of mid-tier enemies. Doom 2 added a ton of them and the SSG to help out which made the gameplay so much more satisfying. Your mid-tier options in Ultimate Doom are...the Cacodemon. That's it. That means the other biggest bads you could throw out are the Baron (absolute crapload of health, only used rarely), Lost Souls (basically a slowly moving wall), and Pinkies/Spectres (both incredibly easy to kite unless backed into a corner). It's why I consider Doom 2 to be a near-perfect gameplay expansion since it so masterfully filled in a lot of the gaps without just recreating the Imp 5 times with more health. If only its levels weren't so rushed...

 

E2 serves as a nice breather, though. E1 is about kicking ass and taking names, E2 is our hero's defeat and his journey though Hell, and by E3 you're back on your feet and ready to blast your way back to Earth. I don't know what's going on in E4.

[Doomkid]

E4 is like all wood and marble isn’t it? Pretty visually cohesive iirc though it’s been a couple years. I don’t think the story actually supports this but for me E4 was the even deeper depths of Hell, almost like an optional detour to the truly angriest corners of the place. I loved the challenge and overall vibe. E4M8 is balls though I must admit.

[Hellbent]

E4 didn't feel hellish at all to me. As someone who actually liked the bizarre ultra-abstract texture use in E2, I saw the wood/marble predominance in E4 as laziness. It's easy to make something look good if you just use one texture theme the whole time. What was so cool about E2 was the creative use of textures to very good effect. The whole episode did feel cohesive, even though it was being very creative with texture use. I also like all the texture contrasts in E2, which is partly why E2M4 is one of my favorite levels: you have the really cool high, open, compblue corridors, and then you have this super, funky red room, and then you enter a marble spire attached to a dungeon with pools of lava. Like, pretty cool! 

[SGS Man]

E2 is pretty solid, but I place it behind the rest of Doom 1's episodes as it is emblematic of the issues with Doom 1's enemy roster. Here is where the game starts bringing out the scarce few mid-tiers and high-tiers it has, but cuts back on the firepower you should have to deal with them efficiently. There is no BFG available, and you're barely provided with any rockets/plasma, relegating high firepower to one-time uses per level. Coupled with the incidental combat-heavy approach this episode takes (over traps/setpieces as in the other episodes), you generally end up with boring encounters ranging from using the Chaingun on a lonely Cacodemon, to plinking down a Baron of Hell. Even the Lost Souls take some effort to kill, further contributing to the grindy nature of this episode. When it comes to level layouts, E2 tends to opt for branching paths with secret connections which somewhat leads to linear approaches to levels. Comparably E1 is more backtracking focused but refills areas often, and E3 is outright labyrinthine, making levels more interesting to play and master.

 

There are certainly exceptions to this, most notably E2M2 and E2M6, and there is a whole host of things I like about this episode. But these issues I have with how E2 plays inevitably put it below the rest for me.

[rodster]

I like E2M1, but E2M2 is just boring and tedious. I don't find the crates part very fascinating anymore. 

 

E2M8 Most epic boss fight in Ultimate Doom.

 

E2M9 I don't even remember this map. Oh, this one also contained a couple of crates. The map was interesting but not very memorable..

Edited January 12, 2019 by rodster

[Hellbent]

1 hour ago, rodster said:

I like E2M1, but E2M2 is just boring and tedious. I don't find the crates part very fascinating anymore. 

 

E2M8 Most epic boss fight in Ultimate Doom.

 

E2M9 I don't even remember this map. Oh, this one also contained a couple of crates. The map was interesting but not very memorable..

E2M7 contained a few crates, not E2M9. E2M9 was a small dungeon with crap-ton of cacodemons and barons of hell. 

 

One of the things I'd like to accomplish one day is to make an awesome crate maze. The cratemaze in E2M2 is still fantastic. I love it. It's great! I actually have an "epic" map in my mind that I want to build. I think it will have a crate maze. I hope it does. I started building the map today, but haven't gotten far at all. It's hard. Mapping is hard. Making things that are cool in the level editor is hard. I'm not even average levels of creative.

[NiTROACTiVE]

I love all three classic episodes of Doom, and I really don't think episode 2 is that bad. One of my favorite maps from episode is E2M4, as it gives me an unsettling feeling, especially with the creepy music. Also, E2M8 had an epic boss fight with the Cyberdemon, so I don't know if you forgot about that or not.

[Philnemba]

Episode 2 is my favorite episode in Ultimate Doom nuff Said. 

[SaladBadger]

i don't know how it's happened, but e2m1's legit become one of my favorite maps in the game. for a game that's thin on story, it at least gets the worldbuilding down, contrasting the hellish bits with the wall inset computers we all know and love. come to think of it, it might make a little more sense if the human bits used star, but I like those giant bricks anyways.

[Hellbent]

I love E2M1. It was so atmospheric and set the tone for episode 2 so nicely. So distinct and separate from episode 1. And that red inverted cross you walk through in the beginning was really cool. Ahh... it's fun to reminisce on my first experiences with registered Doom. Fond memories, them. 

[Nancsi]

E2M2 is far and away the most memorable level in both episode 2 and 3.

[Mk7_Centipede]

E2M4 is my favorite map from Doom. To me the entire episode bleeds atmosphere. The inverted crosses, teleporters, the contrast of high ceilings and narrow halls, the limited ammo supply, the traps and environmental hazards, ...

 

Shores of Hell is the Ravenholm of Ultimate Doom, imo. It's gameplay is vastly different that other episodes and arguably less cerebral, but its all about atmosphere.

 

in my mind, you are now deep within the confines of the UAC and it's occult science work. Whereas E1 gave the impression that the humans were invaded, E2 sheds light on the fact that the UAC is flipping crazy.

 

If I were to re-imagine it, I would use arachnotrons a lot, and purposefully have monsters teleport around to further out you on edge. And well, some additional sciency textures would be cool. So it makes sense to not gravitate towards this episode as much as 1&3, but I think the notion that the survival horror gameplay doesnt fit in Ultimate Doom is, imo, unfounded.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Mk7_Centipede

[rodster]

On 1/12/2019 at 9:03 PM, Hellbent said:

E2M7 contained a few crates, not E2M9. E2M9 was a small dungeon with crap-ton of cacodemons and barons of hell. 

 

One of the things I'd like to accomplish one day is to make an awesome crate maze. The cratemaze in E2M2 is still fantastic. I love it. It's great! I actually have an "epic" map in my mind that I want to build. I think it will have a crate maze. I hope it does. I started building the map today, but haven't gotten far at all. It's hard. Mapping is hard. Making things that are cool in the level editor is hard. I'm not even average levels of creative.

Ahhh, lol, I straight out showed my lack of knowledge. To be honest, I thought the dungeon-cacodemon map was in E3 haha.

 

I admit, what I have said might have been discouraging, so sorry for that. Yes, I agree. I mapped a bit too, and yep it is a challenge to put one's ideas into a map. Thankfully we can look up how others did several things and mapping tricks. :) 

[Mk7_Centipede]

On 1/12/2019 at 7:47 AM, Doomkid said:

E4 is like all wood and marble isn’t it? Pretty visually cohesive iirc though it’s been a couple years. I don’t think the story actually supports this but for me E4 was the even deeper depths of Hell, almost like an optional detour to the truly angriest corners of the place. I loved the challenge and overall vibe. E4M8 is balls though I must admit.

 

I think the exact same thing about E4 as well. It being the deepest part of hell. E3 is the lava filled hellscape for suffering souls and E4 is the temple of atrocities, i.e. where the demons live.

 

We will have to wait a minute but Sigil of Baphomet looks to basically carry out a more realized story after Infernal Sky and I assume will confirm your pet theory.

 

I, for one, am looking forward to an episode that isn't built around gimmicks. From the Romero stream, E5 looks like E4M4 was expanded into an entire episode.

[Hellbent]

4 minutes ago, Mk7_Centipede said:

[... snip ...] From the Romero stream, E5 looks like E4M4 was expanded into an entire episode.

Hmm, I hope not. That is the worst level in all of registered doom! 

[Mk7_Centipede]

5 minutes ago, Hellbent said:

Hmm, I hope not. That is the worst level in all of registered doom! 

Sorry, I meant the aesthetics. It's not marble; but white stone, lava pits, cages and wooden framework.

 

I didn't enjoy the Btrack maps as much as I wanted to, though E1M8B had a nice start. It looks like cracks will be a theme in E5, but not damage dealing. And honestly I think the natural landscape (rocks mostly) looks well handled.

 

but the look from e4m2/6 seems to be elaborated upon.

 

Gameplay seems pretty experimental. Romero does a good job of distracting you while other threats have subtlety and surprise.

 

It certainly seems cacodemons will have plenty of verticality to maneuver around, be it that cage walls will often keep them at bay. Enemies teleport around quite a bit. And I think the Cyber is used as a threat to run from... Which is cool imo.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Mk7_Centipede

[leodoom85]

For all those who said that episode 2 sucks, I'm severely disappointed. 

Episode 2 is the best because of one thing. Fisting with Berserk on it. Yes, I like to fist monsters and make them splat...

All maps contain berserk except the first and the last map for some fun fact.

[roboticmehdi2]

Ok, Ok, I like e2 now and always :)

[Nancsi]

I have high expectations from Romero's Sigil episode. I want it to be as legendary as KDITD, possibly as a straight sequel.

[KVELLER]

On 1/15/2019 at 8:54 PM, roboticmehdi2 said:

Ok, Ok, I like e2 now and always :)

 

That's it people, we finally brainwashed them. Our work here is done.