Akeldama - Now on Idgames!

[joepallai]

2 hours ago, Philnemba said:

Well I think its high time where I feel that my map is ready for playtesting :)

 

Title: Knights of Ilasac

Music: "Interphaze" by David "Tolwyn" Shaw.

 

There are no difficulty settings yet on this map as it was tested extensively on UV.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

AK_Phil_Map02beta.zip

 

The blue key will open both the red bars and the blue bars; the red key doesn't seem to actually do anything.

[gaspe]

Played some of the maps:

@Philnemba: I think some places look rather empty and it's severely missing of lighting variations, plus maybe the texturing could be less crude in few areas. But I enjoyed how it and the gimmick of the Hell knights was cute, my favourite part is the YK elevator fight. Maybe the outdoor area of the YK can have also some line for the rocks? So it will look less blocky. I missed the secret and I ended without ammo in the middle of the exit area ambush, though you better wait to some more proper feedback about the balance. The red bars are also opened with the BK.

 

@dt_: This has a nice sense of place, the base built in the snowy mountains looks also believable. The shadows add a distinctive touch. I liked the alternation of natural and artificial areas. The hell knights at the RL are a bit too close to you when you fall down.

 

@The_SloVinator: valkiriforce said it better. This is a system of corridors that isn't so exciting to play and isn't interesting visually. Escaping some traps it's easy (the BK and RK encounters). I liked the surprise you have if you take the teleport to go back at the BK. Also some previews of areas you will visit ahead are cool: the YK behind the bars, and the snow window at the blur sphere. The usage of "caged" imps at the beginnig is poor, especially at the green armor, this kind of thing is good if they are put in a place where they can keep to shoot the player even from a long distance, here you can ignore them. You don't need to include all the textures from the resource wad.

 

@complexDoomer: I didn't like this map at all. It's basic, with only empty and orthogonal areas but it's clear that you are new to Doom mapping. And for an advice, avoid to make border floors like sectors 125-132-147, this kind of stuff doesn't fit well in vanilla since they eat up visplanes and many segs, and that isn't how you use sector borders effectively anyway.

[Philnemba]

4 hours ago, joepallai said:

 

The blue key will open both the red bars and the blue bars; the red key doesn't seem to actually do anything.

 

Fix and updated on my previous post.

 

Waiting for additional feedback til after the weekend before I make any additional changes so keep the feedback rolling :) 

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP02 was pretty much alright apart from the things already mentioned, get the key bars correctly done and the teleport lines.

[Juza]

Edit 02/04/19 - MAP13-SP-updated.zip

Most likely final version. Now with NO accessible VPOs (hopefully... ran all over the map with all doors open for minutes) and most importantly big changes to one of the major room's gameplay, along with very noticeable visual improvements.

 

MAP13-SP.zip [oudated]

Edited February 4, 2019 by Juza

[NuMetalManiak]

8 hours ago, Juza said:

MAP13-Akel.zip Updated download for Map13

Whoa, this one needs a lot of work. I only played it once, but there's quite a few problems.

 

-I take it the exit is where Sector 478 is?

-Sector 417 should have a tag to it so the three imps can leave their closets.

-Thing 321 (hell knight in teleporter closet) is flagged deaf and shouldn't be

-For some reason, Sector 75 (door for teleport closet with cacodemons) doesn't open after crossing linedef 329 for some reason. I found out there's an entire two sectors closed off from the rest of the map (335 and 191), where linedef 2391 is a W1 to help with the teleport closet, but there's no way into these two sectors without noclip.

-I was unable to open the wall behind the red key (sectors 125, 164, and 562), the W1 lines didn't work here.

 

Other than that, the Alien Vendetta vibes from this layout are pretty cool, and the difficulty is okay I guess. Only played on ITYTD, but I would actually wait until the major issues I pointed out were fixed before retrying this.

[Juza]

The fuck? I must've linked an old version... again. I remember removing the sectors behind the red key. Sorry about that... 

H/o. I'm about to update the download

Edit: Updated. Should be the most up to date version.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Juza

[valkiriforce]

On 2/2/2019 at 4:14 AM, DJVCardMaster said:

I've been working on this simple TITLEPIC, what do you guys think?

 

I think it's too simplistic; I know we have some good graphic artists around here who could whip up something good for a title screen. I haven't gone looking for someone to do it just yet but I would like to have something more visual than a snowy backdrop; especially since that only covers a small portion of what the mapset should be.

 

EDIT: Played @Philnemba's map on UV:

 

-Linedef 820's texture should be raised by 32 to match the surrounding textures.

-Sector 170 should be marked as a secret.

-Linedef 1072 uses the wrong switch texture; it should be changed to SW1BRN1 since I used that for inserting the valve patch textures to animate correctly when used.

-Wasn't too keen on how the corner linedefs in sectors 205 and 210 looked cutoff the way they're used. If anything you can lower them to 1 to make it look like it flows better with the surrounding metal beams.

 

Really enjoyed this map; it was fun to run around in with some nice visuals and open areas. I'll only echo what gaspe mentioned about the light levels being changed up a bit if you can manage it well enough under vanilla's limits. Maybe areas like the curved staircase leading to the two staircases could be darkened, and sectors 127 / 128 could be darkened along with 129 and 130 being slightly darkened. The only other minor details I'm skeptical about are the inclusion of the backpack so early in the mapset and the means of reaching that secret. The three open windows seem like you can just run out of them, but only two are blocking access to the secret which seems a bit strange. Not really sure what to suggest for it - including rails would make it too obvious and similar to the other chaingun secret. Maybe slightly raise the two window platforms that are inaccessible?

 

Overall I had fun playing the map a couple of times - I died the first time in the yellow key wing since I got cornered by spectres and got an unwanted hug from a hell knight. This is a good example of a map that while kind of big in appearance for an early map doesn't take too long to complete.

Edited February 3, 2019 by valkiriforce

[waverider]

@Juza: Just tested Map13: Toxic Disgust:

 

Tested the version from today's post, I previously tested the version from the 22th of January, it seems the points I have from the older version applies to the newer one as well, so without further ado:

 

- It's possible to get 100% all stats. I played on UV only.
- I like the start! It looks good to begin with. It's quite challenging with it's many imps and possible arch-vile encounter, it's fun that you can stick around and kill them all right away or save some for later. I would suggest adding a backpack in the starting room as you often will run into shotgun shell boxes that you don't need early on, don't reduce ammo though, I felt the ammo was rather tight when the green caves began.
- The music track from Doom 1 is a good choice here.

 

- I'm also fond of the challenge in the sector 451 room, the arch-vile and revenants in particular are cleverly placed, all monsters were well placed here really, also liked the chaingunner ambushes at the tighter spaces above, (Sector 453). It's a good idea to close the bars behind the player. Visuals here were also good. Only remark I have here is that if you fall down to sector 501 when the nearby floor has been raised, you can't get back up again. 
- You also can't get back up if you fall down sector 416. I understand that these kind of traps raises difficulty, but I personally feel they should be kept to a minimum. Otherwise, I really like the looks of this room! It's also fairly challenging.

- Nitpick: It's possible to open the door at sector 97 early before the bars have been raised, not sure if this is intentional.
- Not sure if Toxic "Disgust" is the right word when you enter the green caves, I was pretty impressed instead, such a great looking theme! :) Liked the looks of all of the green caves! (as well as exit cave). There's fierce challenges to be had as well here, in the first cavern, near the red key, and after the red bars as well, especially near the yellow key. Well placed monsters all over here.
- Linedef 1059/2907/1923/1283 has the wrong texture.

- Sector 197 is not damaging, but the large green cave before it, is. You could change the flats of this sector and the other ones behind the red bars to something ground-like so the player knows these sectors are safe.
- Sector 208 has two boxes of ammo, one with shells and one with bullets at the same spot. 

- I'm not sure about that an evil eye is key to the secret, it may be too subtle, at least to me. It's also possible to completely miss the teleporting line as it's placed too close to the evil eye.

- It's a nice touch that the teleporter near the yellow key, teleports you back to the yellow switch.
- I'd recommend support textures between linedefs 2502 and 2526, same for the other side. Also that you put nukage on the floor on the other side of the blue door as well.
- The final hitscan monsters that teleport in near the end, can be quite a scare! (It's a good thing ;) )
- Nice lighting in sector 189!

 

I found a couple of bugs:

 

- Found a HOM in the first room, shown here: http://www.mediafire.com/view/tw5783096w3llrl/Akeldama_Map13_HOM.jpg/file
- Sector 453 is not closed, this may potentially cause issues.
- Found a visual anomaly at linedefs 2348 and 2437. These lines show up as double-sided rather than one-sided. Shown in this picture: http://www.mediafire.com/view/2el9ehinsk7omsz/Akeldama_Map13_Anomaly.jpg/file
- Sector 272 has a bleeding error, shown in this picture: http://www.mediafire.com/view/xs9h9kxt9az7bxv/Akeldama_Map13_Bleed.jpg/file
- Also found a 145-visplane VPO in sector 272, shown here: http://www.mediafire.com/view/mwcak4i0fv2vfnt/Akeldama_Map13_VPO1.jpg/file

- Found a missing texture on linedef 2727.
- Discovered a second VPO in the starting area, that I think occurs first after the doors to the exit have been opened, see this picture: http://www.mediafire.com/view/q3t0l1aft70qc9b/Akeldama_Map13_VPO2.jpg/file

 

To sum it up, I liked this map and I thought it had more good than bad things in it. Sure, I thought it needs a fair bit of finetuning but it shouldn't be hard to do, should you agree with my points, that is. :) Besides the bugs and problems, I thought it had good gameplay and visuals, well made monster placements and it was challenging too - and always in a good way I thought. It was fun to play and had atmosphere in many places!

 

 

[NuMetalManiak]

Looks like waverider beat me to most of the good stuff for MAP13, but I'll go ahead and pinch in a few more. Overall though, it definitely is a difficult map, with the claustrophobia being the main thing that makes it hard.

 

Your usage of spectres in the yellow key room was kinda odd since sometimes a few of them teleport to the hell knight/baron ledges, where they are completely useless (at least it happens in ZDoom). Good room otherwise, especially tricky since it gives a rocket launcher. Other part that is questionable is the blue key area where the demons come out from alcoves, since you can just sit in sector 372 and the demons won't be able to reach you. Make this sector wider, I'd say. Also the arachnotron guarding the key is in an awkward position.

[pcorf]

Maybe this should just be changed to limit removing. Some mappers just don't get it when it comes to limits. I am still withholding my map for submission, not going to submit it till at least 20 maps have been completed.

[Juza]

@waverider thank you tons! This is all really helpful, I'll fix all the major issues you had and take note of the nitpicks/ideas. Though, I played the map tons of times in Choc Doom and those VPOs never got me, maybe ChocRenderLimits is inaccurate? I used mainly only Choc Doom and Visplane Explorer. Seemed all fine. I'll still take a look at it, of course. I also had the bleeding errors but they were in very specific spots and I don't think anyone will be very bothered by them.

 

Edit: Also, features such as opening the doors before lowering the bars, I did know about them, but decided to let them stay since similar maps in AV and other classic megawads have the same issues. I did aim for the outdated aspects too. And you can get back up from the other side after the floor raises, but I'll make it a lift too.

 

@NuMetalManiak that is a ZDoom-only issue. I did have in mind to make the those Pinkies in the blue key room "useless", they were rather to contribute to flow, atmosphere and ammo balancing rather than to be challenging.

Edit: I recommend you'd also playtest these maps in Choc Doom, which is the main port we're aiming compatibility for.

 

@pcorf All our efforts to get rid of VPOs, drawsegs, etc. would be thrown to waste.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Juza

[Juza]

Heh, realized a bit of the decoration in my MAP13 is actually untagged for a few difficulties too.

 

If you thought this map was clausthrophobic, wait until you play MAP19.

[waverider]

9 hours ago, Juza said:

@waverider thank you tons! This is all really helpful, I'll fix all the major issues you had and take note of the nitpicks/ideas. Though, I played the map tons of times in Choc Doom and those VPOs never got me, maybe ChocRenderLimits is inaccurate? I used mainly only Choc Doom and Visplane Explorer. Seemed all fine. I'll still take a look at it, of course. I also had the bleeding errors but they were in very specific spots and I don't think anyone will be very bothered by them.

 

Edit: Also, features such as opening the doors before lowering the bars, I did know about them, but decided to let them stay since similar maps in AV and other classic megawads have the same issues. I did aim for the outdated aspects too. And you can get back up from the other side after the floor raises, but I'll make it a lift too.

 

Glad my feedback was helpful! :D  To my knowledge, Chocorenderlimits is actually the most accurate way to tell if the drawsegs or visplanes will be within the limits. As other people have told me, Visplane Explorer can be helpful too, but if the segs or visplanes are high, you really must take a look with chocorenderlimits to be sure the map won't crash, as VE won't check all angles and also, you must always have all doors open with VE so that all visplanes will be accounted for. I believe it's a must to have checked each map with Chocorenderlimits.

 

I did a test with regular Chocolate Doom and indeed the map crashes at those two spots. I don't think the map crashes at the green cave spot unless the door to the yellow key has been opened, if that is the case, then the map will crash at some angles. 

[waverider]

@Philnemba: Map02: Knights of Ilasac:

 

- I played on UV, version tested was from Saturday 2nd Feb.

- Good music track!
- 100% items and secrets were possible to get, but not all kills, more of that later.
- I didn't find any HOM's, VPO's or other serious issues.
- Nice star by the start! The outdoor view is nice! A nitpick: I'd raise sector 1 by 16 units, I think that would look better. I liked the Hell Knights at the start, teleporting away!

- Sector 108 looks good!
- I guess I'm not super happy about the choice of METTEK2 corner textures in sector 178, or actually it's the transitions between METTEK2 and A-BRICK2 that's not ideal imo. You should add SUPPORT3/METAL textures between them.
- As valkiriforce already mentioned - in sector 205 and 210, the corner texturing could be improved, how about SUPPORT2/3 instead here? 
- The staircase in sector 211 on the other hand, is a prime example of really fine transitions imo! :)

- You've made good use of "several-patterned" textures in many places in the map, those can often make wonders in larger rooms! (which often cannot be heavily detailed in vanilla)

- Nice lighting in sector 217!
- I'm not sure about the texture choice on Linedefs 1156/1160. Nice silver-y staircase though! 
- Sector 250 looks good overall, but suffers a bit from the corner detailing again I think. Again, nice usage of several-patterned textures.
- The outdoor view near red key looks alright, but could benefit from a bit more detailing I think. 
- Again, I agree about what valkiriforce says - about the secret, I think I'd like to amen his suggestion about raising the two inaccessible sectors by maybe 8 units?
- Sector 13 is damaging.

 

- Nice nukage containers in Sector 147 and 157. I wish for a bit more wall detail in these rooms though. Sectors 169 and 274 looks great with their texturing and (possible) light fluctuations! :) (found a bug here, see further down) 
- Sector 170 should have SFALL textures on both sides I think.
- Sorry for focusing a fair bit on the visuals, the gameplay is really good in this map! The fights doesn't have any annoyances really, just good flow and pure fun, can't really fault anything!
- Overall atmosphere is nice and I liked the openness of the map.
- Difficulty was light but just right for it's slot.

 

I didn't find any serious issues, just three small-ish bugs:

 

1) The flicker effect in sectors 169/274 + 135-138, has some issues in Chocolate Doom/Renderlimits. It seems that as long as you don't reload your game, the flickering will work properly. But if you save and reload, the flickering will stop completely. This might be an issue within ChocoDoom I guess, just thought I'd mention it. Maybe Sector Effect 1 instead of 17 would solve this?

 

2) It's not possible to get all kills, because the monsters in sectors 285 and 288 can't teleport out.

 

3) While I did like the idea with the Hell Knights at the start, there is a possible, but without a doubt - solvable issue with them. It seems that if you save and reload your game in ChocoDoom, there is no way to wake these five Hell Knights up again. What if you create a new sector that's adjacent to S99/97, etc, and join that one with a well visited sector like S210, then if you fire your weapon after reloading the game, the HK's should wake up and be once again ready for teleportation! :)

 

Overall I definitely liked this map! The gameplay was pretty much faultless, monsters were well placed, I didn't find anything to complain about here really. As mentioned I thought the visuals could be improved though. All in all a solid map!

Edited February 4, 2019 by waverider

[gaspe]

Played @Juza's map. Have some mixed feelings on it. I like the overall layout and the green cave is obviously a recall to AV, though at times this map feels like a bad parody of AV with places clogged with monsters and stuff in the gameplay that wouldn't fit. Like the constant teleporting traps that get old quickly when you use them so much. Minor thing: ammo pickups in the way are generally annoying (for example things 402, 417). The nukage is inconsistent since it's both damaging (and with different % too) and not damaging.

[Philnemba]

Alright after feedback from @DJVCardMaster @joepallai @gaspe @NuMetalManiak @valkiriforce and @waverider I made some necessary changes ya'll suggest:

- Change indoor lighting throughout the map especially the three stairs near the red card key area 

- Change most of the corner textures to near red card key room to METAL 

- Add more minor details on the red and blue key areas 

- Add bars on red card key trap

- Fix minor things I overlooked including the blue card key teleport trap that wasn't working because I somehow untagged them -_-;

 

Small changes I made without feedback:

- Add difficulty settings although completely untested as I rarely play under UV :P

- Add 2 more DM spawns in DM area to have a total of 6 spawns

 

Let me know if there is anything I overlooked or map breaking cause otherwise I'm considering this map finish :)

 

EDIT: @Juza I took your advice on a nuke falls trap but used a more suitable monsters than Cacodemons ;) 

 

EDIT:  Made some changes on teleporter traps near blue key room and fix one of the Baron pillars near the start room. 

 

 

AK_Phil_Map02Final-ishC.zip

Edited February 10, 2019 by Philnemba
Updated Zip file

[Juza]

Updated the post with the download to MAP13 fixing hopefully all technical issues. @waverider I made some big changes to the room with the sector 451, would appreciate if you were to give it a look and send your thoughts again.

[Juza]

A little recommendation for MAP02, it'd be awesome if the nukage were middle textures and the Cacos were to be released from inside of them @Philnemba

[Philnemba]

5 hours ago, Juza said:

A little recommendation for MAP02, it'd be awesome if the nukage were middle textures and the Cacos were to be released from inside of them @Philnemba

 

@Juza I did considered doing that early when I first started this map but went against it because I felt it would've been an unfair boring trap. Might make more sense if I had a super shotgun in my map but due to the map progression rules of this megawad project its out of the question.    

Edited February 5, 2019 by Philnemba

[Brock]

Nice

Edited February 5, 2019 by Finnthemapmaker

[waverider]

18 hours ago, Juza said:

Updated the post with the download to MAP13 fixing hopefully all technical issues. @waverider I made some big changes to the room with the sector 451, would appreciate if you were to give it a look and send your thoughts again.

 

Sure thing, I'll be back with feedback later today, I'll update this post then.

 

UPDATE: New feedback in!

 

- I still notice the HOM in the starting room. It's not super visible in regular Choco Doom though so it may be overlooked.
- Nice visual improvements to sector 451! The shotgun boxes at sectors 514 and 520 can be a tad difficult to grab though, you should place them further out, or maybe better yet, raise those sectors by 8 units so that you can walk under them - makes the area more spacious to navigate. :) I was happy with the way the challenge were in this room earlier, but there's no denying it's now tougher than before, especially with that second Vile. :) It doesn't seem unfair now though, not to me at least.

- Linedef 2437 is still double-sided. This doesn't seem to create any visual anomalies but maybe you should still fix this just to be certain it doesn't cause anything.

- I still think you should change the sectors behind the red bars to something with ground, so that no one will think that they're damaging when they're not. I think it's best if some sectors with nukage are damaging - then the rest of them should be too, or vice versa.
- Nice fix with the evil-eye secret! There's no way that you can miss the teleporting line now and also nice that you now teleport back to where you were.

- Also nice change near the blue door with the green rock and BRICKLIT textures instead of nukage and bricklit. I notice there's still a imo weird transition between the flats nukage and bricks flats behind the blue door. 
Just thought I'd mention it in case it slipped your mind. Ok if it's a design decision though of course.

- The missing texture bug near blue door is still there.
- I'm sorry but I still get the two VPO's that used to be there. In the starting room as well as in the green cave. That green cave one seems reduced in visplanes but I could still get up 143 at the worst case standing in the same place as before with the door to the yellow key room open.

Edited February 5, 2019 by waverider

[Juza]

12 hours ago, Philnemba said:

 

@Juza I did considered doing that early when I first started this map but went against it because I felt it would've been an unfair boring trap. Might make more sense if I had a super shotgun in my map but due to the map progression rules of this megawad project its out of the question.    

I think it'd make the map more memorable and I wouldn't think it'd be boring at all. I think most would agree it'd be pretty neat and unexpected.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Juza

[DJVCardMaster]

Amazing how only one flat texture changed the entire feeling of the map. (Didn't overuse it, only in the rooms shown here)

UPDATE! (This time is not on mediafire since it's having cancer or something, so it won't let me upload the file for now, I'll try again tomorrow)

Edited February 6, 2019 by DJVCardMaster

[Philnemba]

14 hours ago, Juza said:

I think it'd make the map more memorable and I wouldn't think it'd be boring at all. I think most would agree it'd be pretty neat and unexpected.

 

I only said it was boring just because of having Cacodemons in the trap you suggested BUT maybe another monster would be better suit for it  ;) 

 

 

[Juza]

So, I heard we have musicians working on this too? I'm pretty excited to hear what tracks they'll make

 

Edit: @waverider I can't for the love of me get the VPOs you mentioned... Running around with all doors opened on Choc Doom and ChocRenderLimits, every little spot, and no crashes...

Edited February 6, 2019 by Juza

[gaspe]

9 hours ago, Philnemba said:

 

I only said it was boring just because of having Cacodemons in the trap you suggested BUT maybe another monster would be better suit for it  ;)

 

That suggestion isn't bad but I don't think it would work well there. The cacos will likely get stuck behind the railing and won't be much of a threat, this is also the case of the lone caco when you go back to the previous room and it can be easily ignored. And you have only the SG/CG against some hell-knights already, adding more tough monsters would drag the map.

[Philnemba]

8 minutes ago, gaspe said:

 

That suggestion isn't bad but I don't think it would work well there. The cacos will likely get stuck behind the railing and won't be much of a threat, this is also the case of the lone caco when you go back to the previous room and it can be easily ignored. And you have only the SG/CG against some hell-knights already, adding more tough monsters would drag the map.

 

Yeah I do have second thoughts about the lone Cacodemon placement and may replace it with some shotgun guys. Also the Nuke falls trap just unveils at least 3 shotgun guys which I feel are more threatening and better monster placement balance wise.

[Juza]

About to play the map. One trick I did at another vanilla map of mine was to make invisible self-referencing on both sides of the MIDBARS midtextures so the player wouldn't be able to go through the MIDBARS, but Cacos would still be able to fly on top of it.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Juza

[waverider]

6 hours ago, Juza said:

So, I heard we have musicians working on this too? I'm pretty excited to hear what tracks they'll make

 

Edit: @waverider I can't for the love of me get the VPOs you mentioned... Running around with all doors opened on Choc Doom and ChocRenderLimits, every little spot, and no crashes...

 

To be fair you may have to walk around a bit until they trigger, especially the one in the starting area. If you check these pictures and try to stand where I stand you may run into them: (remember to maximize the screen size)

 

http://www.mediafire.com/view/tysc43yop8vm30p/Akeldama_Map13_v2_VPO1.jpg/file

http://www.mediafire.com/view/al9svv7sv0q770q/Akeldama_Map13_v2_VPO2.jpg/file

 

Otherwise wait and see if others think they're an issue in this case, you may not have to change anything after all. 

 

Even the best megawads have the odd VPO or so though so it's not like it's a full blown disaster to have a somewhat hard-to-trigger VPO in a map.