3D floor with inverted rules

[rabidrage]

Hey guys.  So I'm working hard on the next level of my megawad, and I've hit an annoying snag.  I made a 3D floor out of the grate texture from Plutonia (so it's a solid ones with holes to see and shoot through), and it looks wonderful.  But there's a monster underneath it who won't shoot at you when you're standing on top of it.  You can shoot him, he won't shoot you.  He will if you're standing just outside of it, though.  What gives?  How do I fix this?  I also can't seem to uncheck "Vavoom-style" no matter what.  That might be what's messing things up?

[Gez]

11 minutes ago, rabidrage said:

I also can't seem to uncheck "Vavoom-style" no matter what.

Ignore that, it's just a limitation of the editor's interface, because it's worth 0 instead of being a true bit field flag.

 

To make things clearer, it's Vavoom-style only if no flags are set.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Gez

[rabidrage]

Okay, cool.  Thanks.  Now if I could just get the monster to see me and shoot at me through the 3D floor.  Any thoughts on that, Gez?  I seem to recall you're really good at this stuff.

[Gez]

Sorry, if I had an idea about that I would have typed it.

[Kappes Buur]

10 hours ago, rabidrage said:

Now if I could just get the monster to see me and shoot at me through the 3D floor. 

Something like this?

 

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

And a short video

Edited January 30, 2019 by Kappes Buur

[Bauul]

I have a suspicion you might be out of luck here. A 3D floor that is solid enough for you to walk on isn't going to let projectiles through. It doesn't matter that you put a semi transparent texture on it, it's still a solid mass. I don't believe there's functionality to say "be solid for this Thing but not that Thing". 

 

Depending on how complex your sector is, you could physically make the grate, i.e leave actual physical gaps in your 3D Floor where the gaps in the texture are. They'll be too small to allow projectiles though, but hitscanners should manage.

 

There might be some super clever thing you could attempt, like making the 3D Floor non-solid (allowing through projectiles), but turning off gravity for the player when they are at the same height as the top of the floor, so they don't fall through it.

 

But it might be simpler just plan around monsters shooting you.

[ketmar]

i never used that myself, but zdoom wiki says:

• 16: If you add 16 to the type the visibility rules will be inverted. Monsters can see through solid 3D floors but not through non-solid ones. This does not work for the Vavoom type.
• 32: If you add 32 to the type the shootability rules will be inverted. You can shoot through solid 3D floors but not through non-solid ones. This does not work for the Vavoom type.

that is, it looks like you have to assign type 1 (solid) to your floor, and then set both flags. dunno it if works as expected, tho (and if it works at all).

[rabidrage]

Thanks for the replies, everyone.  It actually looks like I can't do it.  Kappes Buur, I appreciate the work you put in.  Unfortunately, the idea I'm working with it that I want to be on top of the 3D floor and have a monster on the floor below shooting up at me.  So far, no dice.  I've been doing the 3 flag thing (Solid, invert shootability and invert visibility), to no avail.  I can shoot the monster, the monster can't shoot me.

[Space Marinara]

I had the same problem with my Spooktober entry and wound up using Bauul's method. It has a bridge over lava occupied by Imps and I wanted them to be able to shoot upward through the suspension cables at the player. But the player also needed to walk across the cables so you really have to get the distancing between the 3D floors right or else you fall through. Problem is, in the end most of their fireballs strike the cables anyway because they're aiming from random angles and rarely straight up through a gap. It should have been the best part of the map but instead it turned into a cakewalk :/

 

Spoiler

 

 

[ketmar]

oh, i completely missed the fact that OP wants projectiles to work. those shootability flags are most likely only for hitscan attacks. as for projectiles -- i have to join the others: either you can walk there, and projectile won't fit, or projectile will fit, but you will fall in the same holes. alas, it doesn't matter what texture you will put there.

 

the only way i see here is to put some kind of cannons on the same height. like, imps hidden behind an illusive wall, or something. so they will shoot projectiles almost straight. yes, it is not as fair and pleasing as monster shooting from below, but at least it won't turn your bridge into safe resting place. ;-)

[NiGHTMARE]

Could you not make the 3D floor non-solid, and then use the old-fashioned Invisible Bridge thing so the player can walk on it?

Edited January 31, 2019 by NiGHTMARE

[Kappes Buur]

3 hours ago, NiGHTMARE said:

Could you not make the 3D floor non-solid, and then use the old-fashioned Invisible Bridge thing so the player can walk on it?

That will work, to some extent, if the the 3D floor is thin enough for splash damage from projectiles to take effect. Hitscans will damage no problem.

[Gez]

Of course most projectiles don't have splash damage.

[Worst]

7 hours ago, NiGHTMARE said:

Could you not make the 3D floor non-solid, and then use the old-fashioned Invisible Bridge thing so the player can walk on it?

 

Combine the non-solid 3D floor with a DECORATE custom bridge thing that also lets projectiles through:

ACTOR LooseBridge32 : InvisibleBridge32 5161
{
  +NONSHOOTABLE
}

Spoiler

For testing it:

ACTOR TestBridge32 : CustomBridge 5160
{
  +NONSHOOTABLE
  Radius 32
  Height 8
  RenderStyle Normal
  Translation "0:255=@90[1,0,0]"

  States
  {
  Spawn:
    TLGL A -1 Bright
    Stop
  }
}