TNT 2: Devilution (Final beta released)

[tmorrow]

2 hours ago, hawkwind said:

Impossible to get to sector 372.

 

You are referring to Cybie's perch. It is reachable from the rocket launcher secret room.

Spoiler

Use the wooden panel at the top of the stairs to open the way to the revenant ledge. Strafe run from there onto cybies platform to collect the goodies and trigger the enemies.

 

2 hours ago, hawkwind said:

Map 16 ... Impossible to get to sector 223 to progress into sector 709 and beyond, meaning 100% kills not possible.

 

You are referring to the hellknight platform in one of the white honeycomb floored rooms. There are 3 steps in the floor that can be raised to make a staircase to the hellknight platform (and so on).

Spoiler

In the largest white honeycomb floored room get onto the green platform. Look north to see a red switch that you can shoot to open a door to another room. Action the switch in the doorway to raise the steps so you can climb to reach the hellknight ledge.

 

As far as I know after several plays, every kill, item and secret in TNT2 is reachable in chocolate/crispy doom, prboom+, dsdadoom, zdoom2.8.1 and gzdoom4.3.0+.

 

Please keep reporting every problem you find, excellent stuff.

Edited December 8, 2022 by tmorrow

[tmorrow]

3 hours ago, hawkwind said:

Impossible to get to secret sectors 44 and 121

 

Both can be reached. The secrets are linked, so missing one you'll miss the other. Sector 44 is the ledge with the plasma rifle.

Spoiler

Go south from the start. Take the lift up. Climb the 3 blue steps. Run off the edge onto the ledge below that contains the plasma rifle. The jump may take a couple of tries since you can hit your head on the ceiling above the ledge.

 

Sector 121 is a ledge with 3 cells and 8 health bonuses.

Spoiler

On the plasma rifle secret ledge look for blood on a wood panel. Action the bloody wood panel to reveal a teleporter. Take the teleporter to a nearby marble ledge with 8 health bonuses and 3 cells.

Quote

1. SERIOUS BUG - Upon returning to sector 733 a second time

 

Good pickup. You can action either of the linedefs to reopen the doors and enter the area again (they aren't blocks). I checked this in chocolate doom 3.00, dsdadoom 24.3 and gzdoom 4.9.0. The effect is only visual and thus not critical, but should probably go on the fix list.

Edited December 8, 2022 by tmorrow

[GarrettChan]

21 hours ago, Sirius104x said:

Now I cannot find this anywhere online and I've searched, even on this forum, and I can't even find a youtube playthrough of this map. But the red key in map 24, Tides of Fire. For the love of god how is this secret opened? I've tried everything. It's one reallllly well hidden secret. Anyone figured it out?

Lol, only I did Devilution playthroughs, but I have been lazy and didn't release much lately :^)

 

Playthrough, it's old, but it should help:

Spoiler

 

Hint:

Spoiler

There's a half buried switch somewhere. You need to look closely.

 

Edited December 8, 2022 by GarrettChan

[hawkwind]

@GarrettChan It's no longer half buried.

[tmorrow]

31 minutes ago, hawkwind said:

@GarrettChan It's no longer half buried.

 

Correct. Garrett's playthrough was on an older beta when the switch was buried. His playthrough is still excellent and useful to show where the switch is.

 

As a reminder to everyone, please get the latest version of TNT2 from the OP, there has been a lot of changes from release to release.

[floatRand]

On 11/6/2022 at 7:31 AM, hawkwind said:

Map 32 ...

 

1. SW1/2BRCOM fourth switch texture needs a slight rework. Note the effect when using this at line 2480. The switch drops slightly.

2. Played on easy. Could only get 166/167 kills. T93 Archvile, was still in its closet. Might have something to do with the seeming

impossiblility to get to sector 11. AV jump ?

 

As Tmorrow mentioned, the archvile is actually activateable by jumping from revenant platform to center platform. 

The front of the platforms is actually elevator activateable by touch - but since there seems to be conveyance issues with that, I revisited map a bit. Hopefully it should make it bit clearer. 

[lupinx-Kassman]

Thanks for the feedback so far everyone! We greatly appreciate it!

 

I'd like to assure everyone that we address every suggestion and bug report that is posted to the thread. In the case of suggestions our response for the most part is to apply the suggestion, but there are a few instances for changing aspects of a map that after review we decide to keep as is. A few of these instances are the map01 start, the lines around the boat on map05, and the 'campfire' burning barrel on map05. We're aware not everyone will agree with our decisions, but we do take every suggestion into consideration before coming to a decision.

 

Note that there are also some items that we just haven't gotten to yet. The stuff in MAP20 for instance. The changelog indicates which maps have updates. The only exception being MAP26 whose changes weren't logged since its still in a pre-beta state.

 

In any case we appreciate the work that goes into identifying potential issues and we will continue to improve the experience as we inch towards the finish line.

Edited December 9, 2022 by lupinx-Kassman

[Tycitron]

Ah shame about the map01 start, thought it was nice cause it made it feel alot more like a direct continuation of evilutions somewhat "iconic" ending screen, which i liked alot more. Also the fact i **THINK** Convilution will use the old 2009 map01 (whenever THAT releases), which already uses the same start location. But oh well it is what it is. still super excited for it to be fully released!

[hawkwind]

Thanks guys for explaining to me how to get to those secrets I could not work out.

Regarding the secret at map 32, strafe running is not required, if the player starts their run from either line 321 or 282.

Regarding map 16, if I checked in UDB's automap mode I would have spotted sectors 426, 428 and 429. They were "camouflaged" when rendering the floor flat.

Regarding map 19, all I can say is I just missed those ones. Confirmed as correct.

As a result I can corroborate that 100% secrets are achievable.

[Devalaous]

6 hours ago, Tycitron said:

Ah shame about the map01 start, thought it was nice cause it made it feel alot more like a direct continuation of evilutions somewhat "iconic" ending screen, which i liked alot more. Also the fact i **THINK** Convilution will use the old 2009 map01 (whenever THAT releases), which already uses the same start location. But oh well it is what it is. still super excited for it to be fully released!

 

It does indeed have the older Devilution opening map. (Or at least did when I had access to one of the earlier builds)

Edited December 9, 2022 by Devalaous

[General Roasterock]

22 hours ago, lupinx-Kassman said:

map01

I do appreciate the work that the whole team is putting in for this. The choice for making the start where the player kills the Icon in TNT is definitely impactful, but I only bring it up because it wastes a lot of the technology in place with the way the Icon morphs. My favorite part of being first exposed to the map was watching how unreal that first room felt with its transformations and uniform technohell coat. I feel it would be a shame for future players to miss out on that. This is the last I'll write about it, hopefully I've proved that I do have a stake in it more than just my personal preference. Best of luck with the finalizations.

[RebMilitia]

Does anyone have the first beta? I'd like to try it and see the map01 start.

Also, hi, really long time lurker, been playing since I still wore feety pajamas and my siblings had to sit me in their lap to reach the keyboard. Idk why it took so long to make an account but uh, here I am

[Devalaous]

11 hours ago, RebMilitia said:

Does anyone have the first beta? I'd like to try it and see the map01 start.

Also, hi, really long time lurker, been playing since I still wore feety pajamas and my siblings had to sit me in their lap to reach the keyboard. Idk why it took so long to make an account but uh, here I am

 

Here you go

 

For those that feel so strongly about the start point, you can simply make your own little patch that only changes the start point if you like, then just autoload it with Devilution like we all used to autoload TNT31 with TNT.

[Tycitron]

On 12/11/2022 at 3:34 AM, Devalaous said:

 

Here you go

 

For those that feel so strongly about the start point, you can simply make your own little patch that only changes the start point if you like, then just autoload it with Devilution like we all used to autoload TNT31 with TNT.

While i dont want to drag on the discussion on a start point of this wad, cause it is a very minor thing, i did end up making a version of beta4's map01 that has the original start positions changed back exactly like beta1, while changing nothing else (well aside from removing the blue skull on the center platform). map works perfectly even with the positions changed. i WOULD post it here for people who want it but i dunno if that's allowed. (I'll stop talking about it now though as i think it was dragged on a bit lol)

Edited December 12, 2022 by Tycitron

[hawkwind]

Here is a suggestion that just might suit most ... why not have map01 beta1 as a map33 ?

Edited December 12, 2022 by hawkwind

[GarrettChan]

9 minutes ago, hawkwind said:

Here is a suggestion that just might suit most ... why not have map01 beta1 as a map33 ?

That's basically the same map with a few extra running around, and it should NOT occupy one slot solely for that. Also, the current Map33 is very likely to be moved to Map34, so Map33 is used for something else.

 

HOT TAKE: Replace the current Map01 with the pre-beta Map01 which doesn't even have the blue starting room so no one is getting butt-hurt because the starting point problem. To me, starting at the lower part is genuinely annoying to whoever wants to play the map. If you wanted to you admire the starting room, you can start at any spot and It's not like there are 1000 Cyberdemons chasing your back and you need to get out of there ASAP.

Edited December 12, 2022 by GarrettChan

[Tycitron]

5 minutes ago, GarrettChan said:

HOT TAKE: Replace the current Map01 with the pre-beta Map01 which doesn't even have the blue starting room so no one is getting butt-hurt because the starting point problem. To me, starting at the lower part is genuinely annoying to whoever wants to play the map. If you wanted to you admire the starting room, you can start at any spot and It's not like there are 1000 Cyberdemons chasing your back and you need to get out of there ASAP.

OR BETTER YET: replace map01 entirely with nuts.wad instead. any and all problems solved.

[hawkwind]

6 minutes ago, GarrettChan said:

the current Map33 is very likely to be moved to Map34, so Map33 is used for something else.

 

I forgot about that. Old age catching up on me ...

[GarrettChan]

1 minute ago, Tycitron said:

OR BETTER YET: replace map01 entirely with nuts.wad instead. any and all problems solved.

It has the plagiarism problem, so it's not all problems solved.

[Tycitron]

11 minutes ago, GarrettChan said:

It has the plagiarism problem, so it's not all problems solved.

Ah crap thats true. But aaaaanyways a new map in the map33 slot? awesome.

[Raimon1996]

Ah I just beat this one, I really loved it, you guys nailed the atmosphere and the tone of the wad, levels were great too. (ESP map20 and map30) Soundtrack was great as well. Def like it more over Revilution, can’t wait for the full release, although I def have some spoilerly questions below.

Spoiler

I had a couple of either gripes or questions, depends. Not relating to gameplay so it’s not THAT important, but map30, map30 blew me away I was not expecting it to be what it was, the buildup was intense, but ngl I was kinda slightly disappointed near the end of it. I was totally expecting some ungodly creature living inside (or the moon itself) the bigger demon moon to fight at the end in the bio society, (even if another IOS type fight), but you ended up sitting in a chair and running away from a few cyber demons. I didn’t think it would end so soon after that as I wasn’t sure what I did exactly in the previous glowey devilution room. And the ending was super goofy, I both love it but kind of wish we got an ending similar to the original TNT with the grim mysterious atmosphere. At least we got moonguy.

 

another thing is the strange lore stuff (yeah I know lore in a classic doom wad heeheehooo) who are those characters shown in map30? One of them was named shaman I think, and a guy with SGT in his name, I was confused because the rest of the game there is no mention of such characters, so I am curious about them.

 

Also the hidden icon room showing the different bosses from other community wads was cool, but a bit odd considering the TNT story only counts DOOM 1 & 2 as canon to it, unless some dimension trickery is happening in the story, I couldn’t tell lol.

But eh I’ll just wait for the txt file to explain it all when it’s fully released lol.

 

(sorry if it seems like I’m complaining over nothing, but I still really enjoyed playing map30 and the rest of the game a lot!)

I think I need to sleep.

[Somniac]

Late to the party here, but I'm up to MAP04 on HMP and really digging this set. Gameplay is engaging and satisfyingly challenging, I love the level design so far, the textures are great and the music really fits. Just the right amount of detailing too. 

 

As someone who regularly fails at vanilla mapping limits, this is quite inspiring to me and I'm looking forward to seeing the rest. I think its really cool that we have this and Revilution, big TNT energy all round, love to see it.

 

[baja blast rd.]

Happy I got through the boss fight right after the blue key pickup in one attempt this time. That guy usually takes a couple pelts off of me! 

 

 

[GarrettChan]

Old Map20 UV Max video, and there's an even older Map20 UV Max in the description :)

[Tycitron]

4 hours ago, GarrettChan said:

Old Map20 UV Max video, and there's an even older Map20 UV Max in the description :)

Ah awesome, i dont think i could ever find all the secrets on this map so this is helpful!

[Marcaek]

Beta 5 posted. Unless something catastrophic happens this will be the second-last major beta version. Next version will have all map slots filled. 

 

 

 

 

 

(I've been occupied with things which are no longer diverting my attention, time to ship this thing)

Edited January 16, 2023 by Marcaek

[SuperFreaksDev]

I made an account just to let you know I’ve been following and playing this for a while and I’ve been absolutely loving it. I’m only halfway through (at MAP31 on UV right now) since the maps are pretty huge. I actually felt the combat was similar to TNT but on steroids with all of the huge mobs of hitscanners, also appreciate the fun environmental details and banger soundtrack. I also skipped ahead to MAP30 for the hell of it and I thought it was the coolest map ever.

 

Congratulations for getting so close to the finish line!

[lupinx-Kassman]

I'm happy folks are enjoying the set so far!

 

On 12/16/2022 at 2:15 AM, Raimon1996 said:

Ah I just beat this one, I really loved it, you guys nailed the atmosphere and the tone of the wad, levels were great too. (ESP map20 and map30) Soundtrack was great as well. Def like it more over Revilution, can’t wait for the full release, although I def have some spoilerly questions below.

  Reveal hidden contents

I had a couple of either gripes or questions, depends. Not relating to gameplay so it’s not THAT important, but map30, map30 blew me away I was not expecting it to be what it was, the buildup was intense, but ngl I was kinda slightly disappointed near the end of it. I was totally expecting some ungodly creature living inside (or the moon itself) the bigger demon moon to fight at the end in the bio society, (even if another IOS type fight), but you ended up sitting in a chair and running away from a few cyber demons. I didn’t think it would end so soon after that as I wasn’t sure what I did exactly in the previous glowey devilution room. And the ending was super goofy, I both love it but kind of wish we got an ending similar to the original TNT with the grim mysterious atmosphere. At least we got moonguy.

 

another thing is the strange lore stuff (yeah I know lore in a classic doom wad heeheehooo) who are those characters shown in map30? One of them was named shaman I think, and a guy with SGT in his name, I was confused because the rest of the game there is no mention of such characters, so I am curious about them.

 

Also the hidden icon room showing the different bosses from other community wads was cool, but a bit odd considering the TNT story only counts DOOM 1 & 2 as canon to it, unless some dimension trickery is happening in the story, I couldn’t tell lol.

But eh I’ll just wait for the txt file to explain it all when it’s fully released lol.

 

(sorry if it seems like I’m complaining over nothing, but I still really enjoyed playing map30 and the rest of the game a lot!)

I think I need to sleep.

 

I went deep on the MAP30 plot here if you're still curious about the spoilery bits.

[brick]

49 minutes ago, lupinx-Kassman said:

I went deep on the MAP30 plot here if you're still curious about the spoilery bits.

I didn't comment at the time, so I thought now would be good time to mention that I really enjoyed the writeup, and that when I played MAP30 back then I thought it was one of the most unique and bizarre maps I've played. I'm still astonished to know that it's completely vanilla, there's so much weirdness in it that I was almost convinced at one point that it must be Boom. It's a fantastically atmospheric cap to the wad, and I like the goofy ending as a counterpoint.

 

On 12/16/2022 at 3:15 AM, Raimon1996 said:

Spoiler

Also the hidden icon room showing the different bosses from other community wads was cool, but a bit odd considering the TNT story only counts DOOM 1 & 2 as canon to it, unless some dimension trickery is happening in the story, I couldn’t tell lol.

 

TNT doesn't count Devilution as canon either, so I don't think we should worry too much about what's canon there :P

I think many PWAD stories count others' as canon, so Devilution isn't the first to do this.

I did have some fun trying to figure out which wad each one references and how the continuity would fit.

Spoiler

Baphomet    Doom II            Death 1 year ago
Tchernobog    Opertion: Biowar    Active but death 7 years ago (?)
Leviathan    CC3            Active
Nevermore    Requiem            Death date N/A
Demonfear    Demonfear        Death 12 years ago
Gatekeeper    Plutonia        Active
Ragnarok    CC4            Active
Final Doom    Devilution        Birth next 2 hours

 

I always assumed the continuity went something like Doom II-> Evilution and sequels -> Plutonia and unofficial sequels/PRCPs -> CCs -> Doom 64, so it was fun to see lupin picked a similar ordering. The puzzling one is Baphomet being so recent, unless I got a reference wrong somewhere.

Biowar being in Evilution's past is also funny since Doomguy dies in that wad's backstory (not even during the wad's events!), but there are so many wads where the story is about Doomguy escaping Hell that you could always just slot one of them after Biowar, no problem.

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by brick

[Raimon1996]

2 hours ago, brick said:

I didn't comment at the time, so I thought now would be good time to mention that I really enjoyed the writeup, and that when I played MAP30 back then I thought it was one of the most unique and bizarre maps I've played. I'm still astonished to know that it's completely vanilla, there's so much weirdness in it that I was almost convinced at one point that it must be Boom. It's a fantastically atmospheric cap to the wad, and I like the goofy ending as a counterpoint. 

 

TNT doesn't count Devilution as canon either, so I don't think we should worry too much about what's canon there :P

I think many PWAD stories count others' as canon, so Devilution isn't the first to do this.

I did have some fun trying to figure out which wad each one references and how the continuity would fit.

Spoiler

Well after playing the wad again the slightly goofy ending has grown on me, i mean its not AS goofy as i said, but i just cant take Doomguys face on a moon seriously lol. For the continuity, Eh its a personal preference thing, i really dont pay attention to the story's of PWADS most of the time, i did with TNT2 because the original TNT's ending stuck with me because of the mysterious cliffhanger, so i was excited to see how TNT2 explained this, although im still not sure what the whole blue light thing was in TNT2, was it you waking up the reality warping demon moon thing by killing the demon-spitter? 

 

But yeah with this i prefer to not count any pwads as canon because it contradicts the original TNT's story where its very soon after Doom 2 with the UAC just recovering from hell on earth, and the beginning of TNT2 begins DIRECTLY after TNT ends, so there is no room for any pwads to happen. (and i consider Plutonia, TNT and Doom 64 to all be alternate universe Doom 3's.) I prefer to think the monitor hall in map30 is simply referencing other hellish threats from other dimensions that the UAC TNT know about, with the FINAL DOOM being the one hatching very soon from inside the demon moon.

 

Also one thing i would love an answer to is where the middle and last half of the wad take place, are you on IO the whole time? like the first half is clearly right after TNT with the demon eyeball moon monster waking up putting itself on every monitor, then in map11 you "time travel" to some place from the original TNT map15's area. The confusion is what happened in between, cause last thing that happened was the moon monster waking up and Doomguy hopped into a time portal leaving the original TNT's time period (where everyone was already dead), did the UAC come back and try to re-colonize the moon? map15 makes it seem like people were recently living there and recently got killed. also considering the hell ship from the original TNT is still floating above IO, and you board it to use it to kill the moon, until you are dragged off to... somewhere mind fucky until you reach bio society stuff. (Also did bio society exist during the OG TNT? or did that happen during the time Doomguy skipped?)

 

Eh im thinking waaaaaaaaaay too hard about this. i really do appreciate and enjoy this wad alot, easily one of my favorites of all time.

 

Man i can't believe i just spent 30 minutes thinking waaaaay too hard about TNT lore. But yeah i can't wait to finally see this thing fully released! Easily one of my favorite WADS. Congratulations on getting super close to fully releasing!