TNT 2: Devilution (Final beta released)

[SuperFreaksDev]

3 hours ago, lupinx-Kassman said:

I'm happy folks are enjoying the set so far!

 

 

I went deep on the MAP30 plot here if you're still curious about the spoilery bits.

I’m curious about the 

Spoiler

time travel. Is that what the blue light was in Map 1 other than continuing from TNT’s cliffhanger ending?

 

Speaking of, the blue light area and the music was some genuinely stunning atmosphere, the eyeball raising up over the clouds was creepy in the best way possible.

 

You did an amazing job with Map 30. I just kinda randomly idclev’d there to check it out and I got so engrossed in it that I just played the whole thing. It was extremely unnerving (in a cool way of course) until you got to the Bio Society, where I just spent half the time checking out all the cool Easter eggs and stuff like the fully modeled bathrooms with mirrors and the animated cells and etc. I chuckled at the “if you can read this you have superhuman sight” sign. When I finish my full game run it’ll probably feel even more epic.

 

I noticed there’s a Map 33 too, was this a cut map by any chance?

 

[ReaperAA]

18 minutes ago, Raimon1996 said:

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Man i can't believe i just spent 30 minutes thinking waaaaay too hard about TNT lore. But yeah i can't wait to finally see this thing fully released! Easily one of my favorite WADS. Congratulations on getting super close to fully releasing!

 

You're not the only one ;)

On 5/21/2022 at 12:55 PM, ReaperAA said:

Sorry for bothering you devs again with another comment (I swear it is not related to gameplay this time 😅). A few days ago I was having a discussion with someone regarding Devilution's plot and there are a few questions that were raised about its plot I would like to know the answers of:

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1. There is mention of time travel in at the end of Map11's intermission screen. When exactly did we time travel? Did we do that at the end of Map11, when we step into the void? I wish the map made it clear, but I understand that vanilla limits can be annoying at times.
2. Why did doomguy time travel to future? What purpose does it serve? Is it so doomguy could find a means to destroy the infernal carrier or is it to destroy the moon? Or is it something else
3. Where does map13 (and all maps before Map20) take place? Are we in space? The ending of map12 where he reaches the Dead Zone area makes me think so. But then are lakes and water stream and other "Earthly" looking locales?
4. What are we doing from Maps 13 to 19. Is it just Doomguy trying to find his way to the infernal carrier because he believes that it would stop the demons (that is until he hear the voice of darkness at the end of map20 that leads him to the hidden passage)? This is my speculation.
5. In Map30, the TNT covertly researches the entity on IO by creating the hidden syringe facilities to remain hidden. But then why do the other facilities (like the ones we see throughout Maps 21 to 29) were non-hidden? Were the Map30 research facilities created by a second research team that was sent there in the future timeline after the first team was wiped out? This is my speculation, but I would like to know the answer.

 

 

[hawkwind]

Changes since beta4 ?

 

[tmorrow]

Beta5 change log. Sorry I can't elaborate further but hope it can target testing.

 

map03:   Texture alignment
map19:   Tarnsman's softlock and monster encounter updates
map20:   rd's softlock fix and minor updates
map30:   Performance updates. Detail updates. Addressed a potential softlock
map32:   floatRand's gameplay update
General: Texture updates. WADINFO and CWILV updates

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by tmorrow

[SuperFreaksDev]

This is probably a stupid question but is there an easy way to continue my progress from beta 4 on beta 5? I’m up to map 17 now on PrBoom+.

 

Secret levels were dope by the way!

[tmorrow]

35 minutes ago, SuperFreaksDev said:

is there an easy way to continue my progress from beta 4 on beta 5?

 

Nothing is guaranteed, but the chances are that since map17 hasn't changed, your current beta4 savegame should load fine in beta5. Try it and see (keep a beta4 around just in case). Keep an eagle eye out for any bugs in beta5, the TNT2 dev team want as many eyes on beta5 as possible.

[SuperFreaksDev]

5 hours ago, tmorrow said:

 

Nothing is guaranteed, but the chances are that since map17 hasn't changed, your current beta4 savegame should load fine in beta5. Try it and see (keep a beta4 around just in case). Keep an eagle eye out for any bugs in beta5, the TNT2 dev team want as many eyes on beta5 as possible.

This actually worked without even so much as throwing a warning. Thank you!!

[SuperFreaksDev]

I just completed Map 17 (great map by the way, love the Caribbean tribute and the little part lifted from Pharaoh). Right at the red key door I found this weird rendering bug. It only shows up when you're far enough away from the wall but it was pretty crazy looking.

 

I also found an extremely wild bug in MAP19; at the end after going through the secret red key area and returning to the end part with the massive mod of chaingunners and imps teleporting in, somehow all of my attacks stopped doing anything to them and I was able to no clip to the ledge with the soulsphere nearby, but only around that ledge for some reason, every other wall was still solid. I wasn't able to get any pics and I have no idea how to recreate this, but after dying and going back to that spot the glitch didn't happen again.

 

Spoiler

Everything about Habitat 2 is hilarious and this is one of the standout maps. I loved the excessive sewers and TNT hallway, and that you can even leave the map with no keys just like the original. Outstanding shitposting

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by SuperFreaksDev
Found a crazy bug in MAP19

[galileo31dos01]

On 1/27/2023 at 1:47 AM, SuperFreaksDev said:

I also found an extremely wild bug in MAP19

 

Sounds like you got the intercept overflow, a weird one if you say you could still bump into walls. 

 

Question: in map 20, the secret soulsphere on sector 517, how does one obtain it? The sector has no tags or teleports linked to it, so my only guess is by using the archvile that spawns a bit far away, but idk that would be far-fetched for a soulsphere.

[SuperFreaksDev]

Yeah, I think it was an intercept overflow, I was spamming the BFG at that point because I was having a blast gibbing the huge mobs. I was doing that in the sewers too, so at the end I must have just done it in a weirdly specific way to be able to cause it?

[tmorrow]

8 hours ago, galileo31dos01 said:

Question: in map 20, the secret soulsphere on sector 517, how does one obtain it?

 

This secret is tricky.

 

Spoiler

You need to use the switch in sector 294 (a circular ledge) to raise a narrow catwalk out of the toxic waste that leads to the soulsphere. The difficulty is in getting to the circular ledge with the switch.

 

On the east side is another switch that lowers a lift/pillar in the slime near the circular ledge. The switch is near where the areas mancubus resides. You can use the switch from the walkway and quickly run onto the lowered pillar and run off the pillar when it rises and onto the ledge. It usually takes several tries to get it right. Alternatively, you can perform a fancy, well timed SR40/50 from certain positions on the walkway to get to switch but I've found this difficult to execute.

 

[galileo31dos01]

@tmorrow Ah, so that was the purpose of the lift, the circular platform looked so far away from it that I didn't think I could land on it lol, thanks!

[SuperFreaksDev]

Apologies for the bump again, found what looks like a big slime trail right at the beginning of Map 27. I can try to fit all of these in one post if you'd like, I just haven't had the free time to play consistently. 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by SuperFreaksDev
Accidentally had two of the same shot

[tmorrow]

1 hour ago, SuperFreaksDev said:

found what looks like a big slime trail right at the beginning of Map 27.

 

I'd suggest only reporting the most egregious slime trails like the one you found on map27. Under vanilla doom engines and nodebuilders it can be hard to remove them, for example removing one can make another appear elsewhere.

[GarrettChan]

On 1/29/2023 at 5:52 PM, galileo31dos01 said:

@tmorrow Ah, so that was the purpose of the lift, the circular platform looked so far away from it that I didn't think I could land on it lol, thanks!

Or you can do this :P

 

I honestly found the lift method (or the intended one) really annoying to perform :^)

[SuperFreaksDev]

6 hours ago, tmorrow said:

 

I'd suggest only reporting the most egregious slime trails like the one you found on map27. Under vanilla doom engines and nodebuilders it can be hard to remove them, for example removing one can make another appear elsewhere.

Yeah, no problem! I’ve only come across the two slime trails and that one crazy intercept overflow so far anyways so I’m not expecting to run into much if any more now that I’m nearing the end.

[blob1024]

just visited map31 and 32

i liked the design, especially of 32, but I found some of the choices a bit confusing: are these final version?

why having monster spawning again in areas hardly visited again (edges or rooms already routed where you won't return unless you "need" to), or why the 300 cells at end of map32? there's a strange feeling of missing the final fight. at the white pillar I was expecting a big mess but just a safe couple of step before exit, you've been too nice :)

couldn't understand how to reach the supercharge guarded by 3 chaingunners neither.

[SuperFreaksDev]

Finally finished! I didn’t spot any bugs for the entire rest of the set. The whole wad was great but you saved the best for last with the third episode—the last set of maps doubled down on the spooky atmosphere and IMO had better pacing than the other two thirds. It overall had the kind of moody atmosphere that rather than being afraid of it, you get fully immersed in it. I have legitimately never played anything else with vibes quite like this. I’m excited for Map 26 based on the preview and will happily go back and play it when it’s ready.

 

Overall, I felt like you guys managed to take TNT’s weaknesses (overly large maps, hitscanner heavy combat) and somehow double down on them while making them genuinely enjoyable, while also doubling down on TNT’s atmosphere and adventure feel. It feels like a legitimate epic and what Team TNT would’ve wanted to do back in the day. Excellent job!

[pcorf]

Devilution looks great for sure and it is quite a miracle this is going to get released. But in reality I have no plans to play it. I have hardly touched Doom over the past few months due to family reasons and other events in life.

 

Give them hell @hawkwind, without you, our mapping projects would certainly not be as good and some may never be released. We thank you for picking up so many different minor issues in our maps as we push the Doom engine to it's limits. You are an absolute asset to this community.

[hawkwind]

6 hours ago, pcorf said:

Give them hell @hawkwind, without you, our mapping projects would certainly not be as good and some may never be released. We thank you for picking up so many different minor issues in our maps as we push the Doom engine to it's limits. You are an absolute asset to this community.

I did not expect that. Thank you very much. I too am waiting for map 26 to be finished.

[Kyka]

11 hours ago, pcorf said:

Give them hell @hawkwind, without you, our mapping projects would certainly not be as good and some may never be released. We thank you for picking up so many different minor issues in our maps as we push the Doom engine to it's limits. You are an absolute asset to this community.

 

Absolutely seconded.

[hawkwind]

1 hour ago, Kyka said:

 

Absolutely seconded.

aw-shucks . Thanks.

[Caleb13]

Ah, a worthy successor to TNT indeed, that retains both the good (challenging gameplay with nasty traps and deadly monster combinations) and the bad (often confusing and tedious map progression) characteristics of the original. I played the beta5 on UV in Gzdoom 4.10.0 and I noticed some issues along the way:

 

MAP06: in the blue key area, it's possible to pick up the secret blue armor without flipping the switch.

 

MAP12: I couldn't get 100% kills because closet sector 456 got broken. When I noclipped there, I found that teleporter sector 455 was about 128 units below sector 456. It seems it happened when I run over trigger linedefs several time.

 

MAP16: isn't the megasphere supposed to be secret?

 

MAP20: is sector 668 supposed to be damaging?

 

MAP21: aren't sectors 76 and 308 supposed to be secret?

 

MAP23: isn't BFG supposed to be secret?

 

MAP25: secret sector 214 (soulsphere) is so small it can't be "found" reliably in GZdoom.

 

MAP29: secret cellpack in sector 302 is really hard to get, it would help if the pillar was a bit lower.

 

MAP31: isn't blue armor (thing 341) in blood-splattered courtyard supposed to be secret? A spectre teleports into sector 561, but it can't reach the player from there. Also, GZdoom reports "Line 4408's right edge is unconnected", it looks like an unfinished auxiliary sector.

 

And... is there some way to reach MAP33 without cheating?

Edited February 7, 2023 by Caleb13

[tmorrow]

8 hours ago, Caleb13 said:

I played the beta5 on UV in Gzdoom 4.10.0 and I noticed some issues along the way

 

You've done amazingly well to discover so many of the hidden, non official secrets in TNT2 (map16,21,23,31). I've managed to find ones on map02,13,16,21-23,30. I've just assumed they are intentional. Sometimes there is a clue, like a countable item you've missed so you know there is something to find. However map21, sector 76 for example contains non countable items so there is no way to know you've missed finding a non official cache. Once map26 drops, I might put a list of of all of them in one post so the dev team can tackle them in bulk. Personally I don't feel any of them are necessary to beat the maps although they certainly make it much easier in some cases.

 

map06: You can collect the blue armor (missing the secret) but you have to get into the secret alcove (with the switch) to trigger the secret.

 

map12: This map relies heavily on some confusing triggers to raise and lower sectors. I haven't managed to reproduce this problem. Sector 456 contains the 4 specters that should be wakened after the first shot fired by doomguy. Sector 455 starts raised above the 4 specters, preventing them from teleporting initially. Crossing any of a dozen W1 triggers on the west side of the map will lower sector 455, allowing the monsters to teleport. In your case, the sector 455 is lowered, so there should be nothing preventing those angry specters from teleporting. Do you recall if the specters were asleep? If you can reproduce this problem and explain how, it would help a lot.

 

map20: This sector doesn't look like it should be damaging. I'm assuming it's there to scare off or apply pressure to the player trying to get to the megasphere secret nearby.

 

map25: A fair point. That soulsphere is on a triangular pillar that gets lowered by entering the yellow door area. The triangle remains slightly above the void though after lowering so it isn't all that hard to make sure to stand in the center of the triangle to register the secret.

 

map29: I'm not so sure about this one. I'm guessing the map designer is insisting on the player exhibiting some strafing and platforming skills to earn this secret. Failure just requires some retries to get it right. It's not a "one attempt only" type of secret. BTW, with my mediocre skills, I usually have to reattempt this a few times to get it right.

 

map31: The blue armor is just another of the many non official secrets in TNT2. The unconnected linedef 4408 warning should probably be fixed. It looks wrong to me even if it isn't breaking the map.

 

map33: No. TNT2 is targeted to be as vanilla as possible (final doom compatible, i.e. complevel 4). A couple of maps might end up being limit removing. The map progression is strictly map01-15,31-32,16-30. Any map33+ levels are bonus maps expected to only be playable with advanced srcports supporting wads with extended map names. Depending on the srcport, that is usually achieved by either "-warp 33" command line option, using the IDCLEV cheat in game, or using the "map map33" console command.

 

Thanks for the excellent feedback, I'll leave it to the dev team decide on these items.

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by tmorrow
asked for more info on map12 problem

[tmorrow]

On 2/5/2023 at 5:43 AM, blob1024 said:

couldn't understand how to reach the supercharge guarded by 3 chaingunners neither.

 

Yet another tricky TNT2 secret. The secret sequence starts in the room to the north within a semicircular corridor.

 

Spoiler

The room has a small door to the north. Opposite the door is a fence with a pillar behind. To the left of the pillar is a switch that is hard to see in the dark. Shoot the switch to reveal another switch on the wall beside you. The switch lowers a thin lift at the chaingunner ledge. Action the switch and run out of the room and follow the passage south, around the corner and over to the ledge where the 3 chaingunners were and take the lift up. Enter the alcove to a soulsphere.

 

[Uni]

19 hours ago, Caleb13 said:

MAP21: aren't sectors 76 and 308 supposed to be secret?

 

Spoiler

No, I made them non-secret on purpose. That's why I used only non-countable items.

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Uni

[SuperFreaksDev]

2 hours ago, Uni said:

 

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No, I made them non-secret on purpose. That's why I used only non-countable items.

 

I liked your map! It was a nice breather after 20 and you had some really cool bits like the dark cave.

 

I actually didn’t realize there was a map33 until like yesterday, was that a cut map or is it just like an extra bonus map? It feels like it could’ve been in the first third if it were toned down a bit at the start.

[Caleb13]

@tmorrow @Uni Ooops, I didn't mean to spoil those non-secret secrets. TBH it's hard to discern authors' intentions these days, particularly when they don't provide text description for their mod. But like you said, most of the "secrets" are inconsequential, anyway.

 

MAP06: I knew that. Point is, you can get armor without finding the alcove. The easiest fix would be to move it further from the player.

 

I tried MAP12 again, but this time it worked. I think it originally broke because sector 476 is tagged 22, too. Some of the trigger linedefs are quite closely spaced and I imagine the player could trigger them repeatedly before the adjacent sector stops moving down.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Caleb13

[Uni]

No worries, I just dropped in to clarify.

 

I might include some information on the map once the megawad club picks this one up in the future.

[Pottus]

I have not logged in for a long time but I must say I really like all the maps in this and the changes that were done to my map were really well done. I like how the changes really reflected on the overall atmosphere that I initially created. It was always meant to have a sense of convolution between realities and show the transition stage of hellish subversion that is happening.

 

The mirror realities of the Satan building, upside down room followed by improvements to the drill room really captures what was trying to be shown here; that all hell broke loose.