(offtopic) Fuck Microsoft.

[læmænt]

Did you guys know that Microsoft is removing the in-built Java support from Windows XP? That means that to be able to run applets or other Java applications, you'll have to download the Java machine manually. It might sound as if it's not much, but it's quite obvious that it will lead to eventual growth of Java's unpopularity, and in some years people will just forget about it.

Instead Microsoft released C# which will supposedly be used in the similar way.

Ah, fuck it. I just started learning Java about a week ago, and now found out that it will die soon (And it WILL die if Microsoft wants so). Fuck the absurdity of life. Fuck Microsoft.

[Lüt]

Yes, everybody in the whole world knows that every single aspect of Windows XP is a fucking ridiculous joke. Nobody in their right minds will be buying this OS, and those out of their right minds aren't susceptible to logic so they won't change their minds. Move along now.

[Arioch]

Do you know what the biggest joke of it all is?

Sun Microsystems sued Microsoft a number of years ago not to upgrade MS's JVM to maintain compatibility with Sun's VMs. In other words, MS's JVM runs with Java 1.1, Sun's is up to Java 2 1.3.

I'll note here that despite Microsoft adding features to their JVM, it is generally agreed to be the best VM for Java 1.1.

Then, the juiciest part of it all, this year another court case concluded in which Sun successfully sued Microsoft to DROP bundling Java support in MS products.

Microsoft isn't to blame here.

[fraggle]

Yes but,

How many websites actually have java applets on anyway?

[Sephiroth]

yea i hate microsoft too, but i use windows. yea they put alot of bugs in there shit so u move on to microsoft file formats. i know it is complete bullshit. why hasnt the US courts split microsoft yet, its a fuck'n monopoly. Oh wait i dont think anyone in the US has the power to split microsoft because bill gates has the power, hell what do u think %99 of the computers in the goverment use as there OS's.

[Lüt]

I've beta tested XP too, it's the next generation in resource hogging. If you have the power to run it, you'll probably be happy, but I'd save the extra $1000 I'd spend on an XP computer and run two Win95 machines with the same performance for the same price.

[Sephiroth]

plus it has no DOS support, well win ME did not so i dont think XP will.

[Arioch]

plus it has no DOS support, well win ME did not so i dont think XP will.

I've tested XP, and it actually plays doom2.exe and duke3d.exe with sound ... so go figure. There is no VESA support however (so you can't run Duke at 800x600) unless your video card win32 drivers allows VESA pass-through (I don't know of many that do).

[Arioch]

I've beta tested XP too, it's the next generation in resource hogging. If you have the power to run it, you'll probably be happy, but I'd save the extra $1000 I'd spend on an XP computer and run two Win95 machines with the same performance for the same price.

If by "next generation in resource hogging" you mean it uses less memory at start-up than Windows 98 and allocates memory far more efficiently than anything Win9x, then I agree with you.

[Lüt]

If by "next generation in resource hogging" you mean it uses less memory at start-up than Windows 98 and allocates memory far more efficiently than anything Win9x, then I agree with you.

But look how much extra memory it takes to do it's "efficiency" thing. Of course a WinXP machine is gonna be more efficient if it's 3 times as powerful as it's previous Win95 machine.

[Arioch]

If by "next generation in resource hogging" you mean it uses less memory at start-up than Windows 98 and allocates memory far more efficiently than anything Win9x, then I agree with you.

But look how much extra memory it takes to do it's "efficiency" thing. Of course a WinXP machine is gonna be more efficient if it's 3 times as powerful as it's previous Win95 machine.

Let me quote some prices to you...

1 gig of pc133 (2x512 dimms): $70
motherboard that supports it: LESS THAN $100
decent CPU (tbird 1ghz) that supports all of the above: ~$100

A simple motherboard/memory/cpu upgrade that costs less than $300 (shipping included) can give you 3 to 5 times your current performance whatever it may be under Win95.

The point being, even if you were able to stick Win95 on such a machine (and you can't) it still wouldn't run half as well as XP would be able to.

[Lüt]

1 gig of pc133 (2x512 dimms): $70
motherboard that supports it: LESS THAN $100
decent CPU (tbird 1ghz) that supports all of the above: ~$100

What charity are you getting these prices from? You're lucky to find halfway decent 256MB stick of PC133 RAM for $70. Or are these all those nameless brands from nameless stores you dig up on pricewatch? It still remains that my computers which have always worked fine will continue to work fine provided I don't waste them with XP. I really don't have the money to be spending on stuff like that, even if your prices were the average retail price.

Still, I'll probably buy a new rig a few months after Doom 3 comes out. Saving my money for now though.

[Arioch]

What charity are you getting these prices from? You're lucky to find halfway decent 256MB stick of PC133 RAM for $70. Or are these all those nameless brands from nameless stores you dig up on pricewatch?

Frankly, yes. And this computer I'm on right now is humming along just fine on that gig of pc133. You're screwing yourself over if you think you're getting the best deal out of Best Buy.

[Lüt]

Oh, I definately don't buy Best Buy, or any retail store for that matter, but I don't jump at the cheapest price - the place I buy from or thing I buy has to at least have some credibility to it. I've come across a few online shops who I know are trustworthy (so far) that also have fairly cheap prices - at least, a lot cheaper than retail, and most importantly, and good return policies. They're not one of those stores that isn't there anymore when you go to return a POS. Sometimes I get things off ebay, but only if there's a guarantee. In fact, I just picked up an AWE64 Gold for $9.99 and an 8MB RAM card for $9.99 as well, so I'm happy for now (I can finally get some real music made).

[Arioch]

In fact, I just picked up an AWE64 Gold for $9.99 and an 8MB RAM card for $9.99 as well, so I'm happy for now (I can finally get some real music made).

I think I just snorted in about a pint of cola. Pardon me while I spit it back out in the sink and finish laughing out loud.

[Lüt]

...and wait till you see what I do with it.

[Sephiroth]

for those of you with windowsME, THAT IS NOT DOS!!!! it is not a true DOS it is basicly a DOS emulation. DOS has gone bye bye in winME. I bet it may be the same in winXP but just far better. I dont really care if it is an emulation as long as it works

[ShadyXMR]

I usually don't support the downtalk on Microsoft, but the fact that it can control the fate of an entire programming language is a little much.

[Arioch]

ShadyXMR: Java isn't just for the use of creating little applets for web browsers.

If Java dies as an web applet coding language, then it'd only be Sun's fault.