Theory regarding the new Mancubus

[Zemini]

I posted this on reddit but it got lost in the sea of redundant memes.

 

Anyways we do know that the mancubus in Doom Eternal is very different.  Some people have written it off as simply an art change but I do not buy that any longer.  Being that Hugo and Marty are self proclaimed "lore nerds" I doubt they would have a huge disregard for the games continuity.

 

If you look close at the new Doom Eternal screenshots, the new mancubi have what appears to be UAC cyber tech as cannons.  Coincidence or demon technology?  While cyber tech on Doom demons isn't anything new, it is rather peculiar giving the fact that Doom 2016 went out of its way to either explain it as naturally occurring chitinous growth or actual UAC implants.

 

It is no secret that the UAC was fascinated with the mancubus. It is my belief they created the cyber variant as a stepping stone to the new Human-Mancubus hybrid.  There are also cyborg zombies and a mysterious crab legged zombie found in the new stadia footage.  I believe all of these creatures were built by the UAC to create a army.

 

Seems like the most plausible explanation without breaking continuity.

 

Original

Phase 1

Phase 2

Edited April 26, 2019 by Zemini

[Grazza]

"All mancubuses are fat at one end, much much fatter in the middle and then fat again at the far end. That is my theory, it is mine and belongs to me, and I own it and what it is, too."

Imp, A. (2019). My new theory on mancubuses. Journal of the All-Texas Summarize Romero Competition, 31, 12–27.

[Ramiel]

I guess I never thought about the Eternal variant as being some type of mutant human.

[Taurus Daggerknight]

I'm still a bit confused about the proclimation that lore will be super important to Doom Eternal. Not because I don't approve (I love me some lore), but because I specifically recall the devs proclaiming loud and clear that they meant for Doom 2016 to be cheese-burger, and not really focused on story at all. 

 

In particular: 

 

 

As such, design changes seem more like just that; things done for the rule of cool. I don't expect that they will have much "lore reasoning" behind things like the mancubus looking different, beyond a hand waved "new strain of demon". 

 

On the assumption that they do however; I actually hope they do away with the whole "demons have tech because of UAC". One thing I loved about previous Doom games was the idea that hell had terrifying technology to match, or even outpace humanities. Hell was not stuck in the middle ages with battle axes and chain mail; they were the dark mirror of everything humanity was, up to and including the ability to wage war with industrial efficiency. I was honestly a bit disappointing that Doom 2016 diminished that aspect. 

 

 

[Zemini]

I guess my thoery is now stronger since we now have a Zombie Mancubus skin.  So unless Demons can also be zombiefied ...

[whatup876]

I too wasn't a fan of the UAC being responsible for most demons outside the possessed soldiers/former humans, since it takes the "weird" away from Hell and sort of decreases their power level.

I also expect the Mancubi, without cybernetics, probably being some ogre species that would still come from Hell.

[Caffeine Freak]

8 hours ago, whatup876 said:

I too wasn't a fan of the UAC being responsible for most demons outside the possessed soldiers/former humans, since it takes the "weird" away from Hell and sort of decreases their power level.

 

I echo this sentiment, but I feel they limited the UAC involvement in the demon origins to a reasonable degree. The only demon the UAC created completely was the Revenant. Other demons were merely augmented by the UAC, with mostly unintentional results. Ex: the Spectre was a Pinky (which we already knew) that gained limited psionic abilities when they attempted to improve it's vision with a Caco's optic nerve, the Cyberdemon was a Balgaar re-animated with an Argent Accumulator implant, etc.

 

Again, I'm not a fan of human involvement in demon origins either, but I understand why they took that approach. And I feel it's reasonable, given the context of what hell is in Doom 2016: it's a chaotic wasteland populated by creatures who have no grasp of modern human technology, and whose use of technology in their own realm could be described as neanderthalic at best. It wouldn't make sense for such a place to produce demons armed with rocket launchers. In classic Doom (and even Doom 3), such explanations were never given, except in the very vaguest sense, such as the descriptions in the manual. And that was fine. But once you get into the setting of a more modern game, where you're going into deep detail about things like the UAC and it's history, you inevitably have to go into detail about the origins of the demons. And that requires explanations that make more sense in the context of a more detailed storyline.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Caffeine Freak

[snapshot]

22 minutes ago, Caffeine Freak said:

It wouldn't make sense for such a place to produce demons armed with rocket launchers. In classic Doom (and even Doom 3), such explanations were never given

I always imagined these armed demons from Doom 3 (Mancubus, Revenant and Lost Soul and Pinky) as experiments produced by the Ancient Martian civilization after discovering Hell, with their technology that was supposedly far more advanced than the UAC's.

[whatup876]

I guess that's why the classic Hell in the games is great: visually it's a big mash up of flesh, tech, rock, faces, fire etc and you have a colorfull variety of demons.

Hell levels in general can be abstract and weird and that, along with maybe the lack of lore, leds to a portrayal of Hell that has a lot that can be done with, be it the millions of usermade maps or those weird Realm667 monsters that sometimes fit the universe of Doom and have their own abilities and stats.

 

Because besides this new version of Hell being mostly rocky and lacking some of those older elements, some demons seem to feel "close" like how the Prowler and Eternal Archie look like they have that similar aesthetic of spikes and "armor" skin or whatever that is.

 

It's as if they want them to be somewhat believable as species than just supernatural monsters, despite 2016 lacking the Cacodemons bleeding blue for example.

 

Besides how some of these lore aspects feel like they're making Hell feel weak, it also feels like something is being removed even if the intention of the lore is to expand on Doom's universe.

 

Sometimes, the more i think of Doom 4's art direction, i wonder if some of it were ideas originally made for a different series that were eventually scrapped and put in Doom, because if either this was the first Doom game ever or the first game and 2016 swapped some of their ideas, i wonder if we wouldn't have something like a weapon named "BFG" or a lost soul.

 

Also, since the Revenant's backstory was originally being resurrected demon remains (hence the name) maybe he could have had chitinous armor and a demonic looking skeleton.

 

Some of the backstories that describe demons with their biology and the Hell razer being a virus also almost makes them feel "alien" at times but i already mentioned this in the "it's too cartoony" thread.

 

And i remember the Spider Mastermind being resurrected with Olivia's sacrifice and we didn't really see their legs being "built" by scientists, so i wonder how will the new cybernetic demons be built.

 

You know what? this post is now too long for its own but all in all, the universe of Doom can always be expanded with concepts and designs from previous games.

[Taurus Daggerknight]

On 4/20/2019 at 2:45 PM, Caffeine Freak said:

 

it's a chaotic wasteland populated by creatures who have no grasp of modern human technology, and whose use of technology in their own realm could be described as neanderthalic at best. It wouldn't make sense for such a place to produce demons armed with rocket launchers. In classic Doom (and even Doom 3), such explanations were never given, except in the very vaguest sense, such as the descriptions in the manual. A

 

Honestly, I don't think that the presence of tech without humanity's interference would be that nonsensical. Hell does demonstrate the fact that it has "technology" of its own (clock-work machines, iron worked chains, spears, swords, etc). These might sound like primitive things, but bear in mind that the creation of all of this stuff is in and of itself "technology". For Hell to go one (or, rather, ten) step further and have cybernetics on top of such medieval tech doesn't have to be any more explained than the presence of iron without an identified blacksmith's shop.

 

In fact, it being "hell" is already an explanation in and of itself; things that civilizations make and are so proud of end up manifesting here, in their darkest and most violent form and purpose. No mortal hands had to sit down and make any of it. Hell doesn't need factories, or artisans. All it needs is the will of evil itself.  

 

Also; the Praetor suit is specifically mentioned as being the work of a traitor demon. So...cybernetics and such are already noted as being in Hell prior to the UAC's scheming. Which, again, seems a lot cooler to me personally. 

 

In general, I think I prefer Doom 3's UAC logs, in that they were more along the lines of "Scientists trying to trace meaning in the supernatural". A lot of their stuff admitted to running into brick walls, such as the mention of how they could not figure out how imps (or was it a Hell knight?) were able to generate plasma in their hands. 

[whatup876]

A detail i liked about the original Mancubus is how his "Menablanablah" sound sort of suggests some made up language these creatures have.

 

Also, i remember the D64 Manc making him closer to the Baron's, which could imply any creature could be a Manc if they're fat enough to have six nipples and that new cyborg monster from the Stadia footage looks similar to the new Manc.

Edited April 26, 2019 by whatup876
grammar fix

[Job]

No lore necessary. Why? 

 

Doom 2 mancubus > all other mancubus designs 

 

They should have made the Doom 2016 mancubus like this in the first place. 

[Taurus Daggerknight]

On 4/27/2019 at 10:55 PM, Job said:

No lore necessary. Why? 

 

Doom 2 mancubus > all other mancubus designs 

 

They should have made the Doom 2016 mancubus like this in the first place. 

 

Agreed. I didn't -dislike- the Doom 2016 mancubus (though I thought the cyber-mancubus looked dumb), it didn't give me the same "OH SHIT" reaction that running into a mancubus in Doom 2 does. There's also something to be said about the expression of hate and aggression on the classic/ Eternal design that was completely missing in 2016 (by virtue of that one being an alien maggot). 

 

In fact, this is something I am really, really glad to be seeing in Eternal so far. While canon says the demons fear Doom Slayer, I would much rather the demons facing me have an outright "I DEFY YOU" attitude as we engage in combat. The fact that the zombie marines now have faces that convey anger sort of carries that for me. 

 

The one I'm really, really looking forward to; new Cyberdemon. I hope we get one, and I -really- hope it's not Chubby Moose II. 

[whatup876]

On 5/2/2019 at 11:58 AM, Taurus Daggerknight said:

The one I'm really, really looking forward to; new Cyberdemon. I hope we get one, and I -really- hope it's not Chubby Moose II. 

An "Eternal" Cyberdemon (as in a "modernized/old school" look) could be justified if it's a different species from Baalgar (an Harbinger) and if he was made by Hell itself this time.

 

Not sure how he would play, though.

Edited May 3, 2019 by whatup876
grammar fix

[Ramiel]

1 hour ago, whatup876 said:

An "Eternal" Cyberdemon (as in a "modernized/old school" look) could be justified if it's a different species from Baalgar (an Harbinger) and if he was made by Hell itself this time.

 

Not sure how he would play, though.

I don’t see any reason to change the formula we got (maybe besides the bit where he fires a volley into the air and they come back down)

[Zemini]

On 4/27/2019 at 10:25 AM, Job said:

No lore necessary. Why? 

 

Doom 2 mancubus > all other mancubus designs 

 

They should have made the Doom 2016 mancubus like this in the first place. 

 

Your avatar invalidates your opinion regarding the Mancubus.