the one thing to balance DOOM

[Mk7_Centipede]

Basically, there is 1 easy change that would balance and fix DOOM.

 

Make the chaingun cost battery charge. In addition to bullets, make the chaingun consume plasma rounds. For every trigger pull, you waste 2 bullets and 2 cell power. (because chainguns have batteries attached to them and pistols do not)

 

Ammo for the chaingun becomes search for 2 items. the pistol isnt obviously outclassed. etc.

 

would this not be genius?

 

edit: I really liked rage, so the idea of combining ammo types for a single gun isnt strange or even un-id to me. But basically this would be a possible remedy as to why someone would use a pistol after having acquired the chaingun. It would be a minimal drain on battery ammo, and thematically I think it makes sense because the chaingun is like this giant gun that arnold uses in every other movie. Shotguns dont use batteries, but giant fricking miniguns do.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Mk7_Centipede

[baja blast rd.]

The chaingun would then be nigh worthless when you have the plasma rifle -- 2 cells used for 20 avg. damage to the PR's 2 cells for 45, and then it still uses bullets... A weapon requiring two separate ammo types has odd ripple effects, too; your 'effective ammo' at any moment is min() of either, so ever using the pistol will render unusable some of your cells in stock (and possibly in the map), and likewise the PR with bullets. For this to possibly work, you'd need to make it a weapon above the PR in the hierarchy. Wait the cell weapon already there has obsoletion problems too. :)

 

With that last line I'm not sure the thread is serious, but good food for thought is how to make a dual-type weapon work alongside the existing armory. Curiously, Maskim Xul has a weapon that 'costs health' (i.e. forced self-damage), so offbeat stuff can work.

Edited April 30, 2019 by rdwpa

[LadyVader1138]

The weapons are already nicely balanced. The pistol is really just meant to be a backup in case of death.

[chowbar]

38 minutes ago, Mk7_Centipede said:

Basically, there is 1 easy change that would balance and fix DOOM.

 

Wait hold up, you’d rather make the chain gun use bullets and plasma rather than say reduce lost soul health? 

[LadyVader1138]

10 minutes ago, chowbar said:

 

Wait hold up, you’d rather make the chain gun use bullets and plasma rather than say reduce lost soul health? 

This is better. Much better.

[Nine Inch Heels]

I'm not even gonna dignify this poorly disguised troll attempt of a thread with anything that resembles a thorough response. Better luck next time.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Nine Inch Heels

[Megalyth]

Every weapon should use all four ammo types if you want true balance.

[D4NUK1]

4 hours ago, Megalyth said:

Every weapon should use all four ammo types if you want true balance.

 

I like when my pistol shoot a bulet made of plasma inside a shell of the size and materials of a rocket.

[Pirx]

Why make something simple when you can make it complicated. ..

[MadGuy]

22 minutes ago, Pirx said:

Why make something simple when you can make it complicated. ..

Wasn't suppose to be the opposite ?

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Yea and let's stamina bars that deplete instantly if the player does sr40\sr50. Players also move 50% slower while strafing and 80% slower while strafing diagonally.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Pegg

[GarrettChan]

Good thought, Chaingun haters have better excuses now.

[Kira]

Bullet damage should be that of the berserk punch and your fist has the same fire rate as the plasmagun to make up for it. What's more, punching should cost bullets and cells too!

[yakfak]

chaingun is already balanced; you can't use it in a tyson run 🐧

 

imo when talking about doom 1 the hardest enemy is the darkness. the one hack that balanced doom 1 would be some sort of auto-gamma calculator that kept it just dark enough across the board. it'd mess with old people like me whose eyes are going but old people have already memorised doom 1's levels i guarantee it

[Mk7_Centipede]

13 hours ago, rdwpa said:

For this to possibly work, you'd need to make it a weapon above the PR in the hierarchy. Wait the cell weapon already there has obsoletion problems too. :)

 

I was thinking how in RAGE you pick up shells and explosive packs and then you have explosive shells (a poor mans rocket launcher).

 

A lot of times in single player, the chaingun is introduced much later than the shotgun or super shotgun. By making the gun also require plasma cells, you could encounter plenty of commandos without upgrading your arsenal- that is, until a battery shows up.

 

ostensibly, DOOM can play just as it has always played. But also, chaingunners in an episode 2 setting would not upgrade our hero's gun. Which means the survival horror thing could be played up a bit more in any given DOOM level. So I guess the balance I meant was a survival-horror balance. By having the chaingun cost more ammo than the pistol, you have an incentive to use the pistol.

[Boondorl]

I like how this change would make the Chaingun unusable in episode 1 of Doom.

 

 

[Empyre]

If t is your goal to make Doom simpler, make all the weapons share one ammo type, with a slightly larger capacity, like 400/800.

[BigBoy91]

Chief called. Said this ain't it.

[Doomkid]

Why would you nerf one of the lowest-tier guns? Almost every mod that tries to “balance” Doom usually gives it more kick since it’s inferior to the plasma gun, ssg and even the single-barrel in like 80% of situations you’ll find yourself in when playing the average Doom map..

 

When playing deathmatch I curse authors who insist on spawning you with the CG (which includes myself) because it’s so wimpy compared to the shotguns, cell guns and even the dangerous RL.

 

The chaingun is basically worthless in multiplayer and is only good as a sniper or clearer of zombiemen in SP. It has it’s place though, in many of my maps I force the player to rely on the chaingun for the first segment because once you find the plasma it’s essentially only there for when you’re out of cells as a second-rate backup gun.

 

If your goal is to incentivise pistol use, make it much more accurate than the CG is and increase it’s rate of fire a bit. I did this for Rowdy Rudy and several players told me it made the pistol substantially more useful and satisfying.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Doomkid

[BigBoy91]

I actually really like the chaingun the way it is. It's perfect for stunning enemies for an extended period of time.

[OliveTree]

I like this idea and would like to see it implemented in a mod, actually. Perhaps increase the accuracy of the pistol as well make it slightly more damaging, and have lets say 1 cell ammo per 3 bullet ammo usage. We dont want to end up inadvertently disincentivizing use of the chaingun as well by making it a worse way to spend your cells.

[ChicagoTrash]

14 hours ago, Megalyth said:

Every weapon should use all four ammo types if you want true balance.

Supet chain plasma rocket shot pistol

[Boondorl]

You're gonna have to make the Pistol shoot nukes if you want people to actually use it. Accuracy isn't an issue when tap firing works like it does. I'm bias here because of my own modding history, but I found the best way to balance weapons is to find what they already excel at and push those strengths while weakening other aspects. Personally, I turned the Chaingun into a close-range shredder by buffing its fire rate and removing the bonus accuracy from tap firing while buffing the Pistol's accuracy and damage. That gives the weapons two fundamentally different roles which gives you a reason to pick one over the other in certain situations.

[OliveTree]

12 minutes ago, Boondorl said:

Accuracy isn't an issue when tap firing works like it does.

But, considering how weak the pistol is, the fact that its also super inaccurate means its basically worthless.

[GarrettChan]

2 hours ago, Doomkid said:

...is only good as a sniper or clearer of zombiemen in SP.

Surprisingly, Chaingun has higher DPS than Shotgun. In 30 seconds, Shotgun fires 29 shots, which means there are totally of 29 * 7 = 203 pellets while Chaingun fires 266 shots. However, from a speed standpoint, Shotgun has immediately impact but Chaingun doesn't. While you're going to storm through small enemies like Imps, Shotgun would be preferred, but of course, everyone loves those Imp who refuse to die in one Shotgun blast ;P

[Doctor_Spengler]

I honestly don't see how this would benefit the game. Seems pretty ridiculous

[Dark Pulse]

19 hours ago, Mk7_Centipede said:

Basically, there is 1 easy change that would balance and fix DOOM.

 

Make the chaingun cost battery charge. In addition to bullets, make the chaingun consume plasma rounds. For every trigger pull, you waste 2 bullets and 2 cell power.

 

Ammo for the chaingun becomes search for 2 items. the pistol isnt obviously outclassed. etc.

 

would this not be genius?

So then two things happen.

1. I stop using the Chaingun the second I get a Plasma Rifle - which, last I checked, is E2M1 and/or MAP05.
2. I start Shotgunning/Super Shotgunning a LOT more.

It's almost like you want to make the game suck.

[Mk7_Centipede]

1 hour ago, Dark Pulse said:

So then two things happen.

1. I stop using the Chaingun the second I get a Plasma Rifle - which, last I checked, is E2M1 and/or MAP05.
2. I start Shotgunning/Super Shotgunning a LOT more.

It's almost like you want to make the game suck.

 

What? No I am not talking about making Ultimate DOOM suck. I am talking about the general mechanics for weapons in DOOM and DOOM 2.

 

But assume there were battery packs laying around E1, and they were the resource to powering your chaingun, then you would want to find them. Certainly, this balance would be a single player fix- and force the player to conserve ammo and explore for batteries and and use the pistol on the regular.

 

The most immediate purpose would be so that I can make a map where you have to fight a lot of chaingunners with just a pistol and shotgun. As you would be unable to use the chaingun they would drop without any cell ammo. And I think this would be a very cool encounter.

[Alper002]

@Dark Pulse's point still applies, even with good ammo balancing, because honestly...

Why would I use the chaingun if the plasma rifle does almost the same thing but better and consumes less ammo?

 

Using the chaingun when you have the plasma rifle will be a dumb choice, because you're wasting ammo that could be better spent on the plasma-rifle, turning the chaingun into something you optimally shouldn't use.

 

The chaingun's sniping can also be done by the pistol, which means that one of the few things the chaingun does better than the pistol can be done by the pistol anyway.

 

And in a setting where a plasma rifle or BFG doesn't exist... It's still bad because you're wasting a precious resource that you want to save, resulting in something similar to the elixir problem in RPGs.

 

Congratulations, you made the chaingun useless!

[Capellan]

7 hours ago, Empyre said:

If t is your goal to make Doom simpler, make all the weapons share one ammo type, with a slightly larger capacity, like 400/800.

 

Clearly you are not old enough to remember the NERDRAGE when Deus Ex: Invisible War (the only DX I actually like) did this. :)

Edited May 1, 2019 by Capellan