This year I continued my tradition of not finishing Doom 3

[Szuran]

It's my tradition: I dust off my Doom 3 disk, wondering why I never finish it (it's such a moody game), start playing it, have an amazing time with the early levels (so good!), then get progressively more bored and by the time I'm in the moving platform level I want the game to just get to the good part. Then I get to hell (FINALLY) and am completely disappointed with how boring it is and how cheap the enemy placement is. This is where I usually drop off until next year, when I wonder why I didn't finish Doom 3 last year, because I remember how good and moody the early levels are.

This year I got farther, after Hell, but it was just return to the same old, same old. Tight corridors, enemies spawning behind you and you noticing that only because the screen shakes like crazy when you're hit. This is just such a bad design choice.

 

Oh, and the weapons. The last time I played I said to myself that I had farts that sounded more powerful than the weapons in this game. Machine gun is a joke. Shotgun is underpowered. Plasma rifle feels like shooting bubbles. Chaingun is so quiet and smooth that it feels like I'm shooting a nerf gun.

 

For the record: I have beaten Doom 3 once. The first time I played it. Since then I have this strange love/hate relationship with it. I love to start it. I hate what the game becomes (or what it doesn't become).

 

Some tweaks and it would've been great.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Szuran

[GuyMcBrofist]

I recently discovered CED's assets pack for Doom 3. It's an overhaul of the weapons and adds some neat little extras like looting dead bodies. I haven't done a playthrough with it yet but it looks really good.

[snapshot]

You may also try this, it doesn't change the levels but it makes it more tolerable.

Edited May 1, 2019 by tempdecal.wad

[Taurus Daggerknight]

This sounds like the same boat I've been in for years. Doom 3 is a game I really, really, really want to like, and yet its core gun-play just keeps boring me to tears. Maybe I'll try that stuff @GuyMcBrofist  and @tempdecal.wadlinked to... (thanks btw!). 

[Szuran]

Unfortunately I can't try it. I play on console. My PC can... well, run Doom. And that's pretty much it.

[Arl]

2 hours ago, Szuran said:

...I play on console...

 

Now I understand why are you quiting the game half-through.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Arl

[hardcore_gamer]

3 hours ago, Taurus Daggerknight said:

This sounds like the same boat I've been in for years. Doom 3 is a game I really, really, really want to like, and yet its core gun-play just keeps boring me to tears. Maybe I'll try that stuff @GuyMcBrofist  and @tempdecal.wadlinked to... (thanks btw!). 

 

I like this mod a lot. I know it uses the BFG edition but I see that as a plus since it means it also works with RoE which isn't typically the case with these kinds of mods for vanilla doom.

 

 

[Szuran]

7 hours ago, Arl said:

 

Now I understand why are you quiting the game half-through.

 

Why though? On Xbox One it's 60 fps 1080p, looks gorgeous, runs flawlessly. And I'm used to using a joypad.

[snapshot]

12 hours ago, hardcore_gamer said:

it means it also works with RoE which isn't typically the case with these kinds of mods for vanilla doom.

Most of the gameplay mods of Vanilla Doom usually give you an option to play through the ROE campaign, and in some cases they don't need to because they have to be extracted to the "base" folder, meaning any mod (including d3xp / ROE) will automatically have the changes applied to it as well (eg: the mod I linked to).

 

Regarding the repetitivness of the game, I get that the game can get repetitive as hell (no pun intended) halfway through the journey but It's not like the other Doom games aren't guilty of this either, I remember almost dropping Doom 2 after spending days running around the city level and after finally finishing it it's the same old thing, just in some levels that are laid out differently.

[Szuran]

The difference is, Doom (II, but especially I) is fun even in short bursts and just feels good. Doom 3 has an interesting setting, interesting enemies, and even some interesting weapons, but it feels like it's barely a game. Movement isn't fun. Shooting isn't fun. The effect when you get hit isn't fun (while watching your tiny pixelated face get bloodier is a TON of fun). They didn't get the core mechanics right, and if someone were to fix D3, they ought to redesign the entire movement and combat first. And then probably levels too, to make them large enough to have some other combat than "there's an enemy either in front of me or behind me". There are no other options since the whole game is cramped hallways.

[ketmar]

what id was trying to do is a blend of horror and shooter. and that thing just cannot work: you will inevitably get either shitty shooter mechanics, or shitty horror, or shitty both. ;-)

 

that is, if you'll give players good weapons and fast movement, they won't be scared anymore: why, i can just shoot the thing in its head instead of hiding and trembling with fear. then you may try to compensate it by using jumpscares and darkness, which is not scary at all, just annoying. then you can try to balance it by giving monsters more power -- and your fights becomes boring. then... ah, you got the idea. survival horror and shooter just doesn't blend (and before you asked: no, Dead Space is not a good horror, and not a good shooter too ;-).

 

it is great that id tried something new for them, but it was crippled from the start, by trying to please two completely different audiences. first one are die-hard id fans expecting a fast-paced shooter like id always did, and second one are people who like narrative and horror. and it turned out to be a miss/miss.

 

now, i believe that Doom 3 is hiding two good games inside: great survival horror on Mars, and good shooter where Doomguy is cleaning Mars labs and descends into Hell to finish it all. those games just need to be separated one from another.

Edited May 11, 2019 by ketmar

[Szuran]

Gotta disagree here. AVP 1999 is fast-paced, a good shooter, and at the same time pants-shittingly scary. They achieved it with random enemy spawning, masterful sound design and the choice: you either know where your enemies come from OR see in the dark.

[ketmar]

ok, i gotta agree here: sometimes it works. yet it is very rare thing -- that's why we don't have many AVP-quality mixes.

[Szuran]

Frankly, I can't think of anything similar to AVP. It's a one-of-its-kind game.

[ketmar]

1 minute ago, Szuran said:

Frankly, I can't think of anything similar to AVP. It's a one-of-its-kind game.

exactly what i meant, yeah. ;-)

[Koko Ricky]

Doom 3 is a bit of a slog while Resurrection of Evil felt punchier and more memorable. They're both a bit weak because of the sub-par moving/shooting mechanics, and the engine heavily constraining the overall scope of the settings and combat. But they're also games that have superb moments of pure atmospheric immersion, and at times the gunplay feels really, really good. Those moments make this chapter of Doom worth revisiting. The Phobos mod that was recently released is a good example of the potential of the both the engine and mechanics working in tandem.

[GuyMcBrofist]

FEAR also mixed horror and good shooting pretty well. It's totally doable.

[ketmar]

i thought about it too, but i have mixed feelings here. it is excellent shooter, but for me, it is not that scary. the first level... yeah, but it has little action, mostly atmosphere. still, i love F.E.A.R., i just don't know if i can put it into horror department.

[Duke of Pathoris]

On 5/12/2019 at 4:09 AM, GoatLord said:

Doom 3 is a bit of a slog while Resurrection of Evil felt punchier and more memorable. They're both a bit weak because of the sub-par moving/shooting mechanics, and the engine heavily constraining the overall scope of the settings and combat. But they're also games that have superb moments of pure atmospheric immersion, and at times the gunplay feels really, really good. Those moments make this chapter of Doom worth revisiting. The Phobos mod that was recently released is a good example of the potential of the both the engine and mechanics working in tandem.

I agree. It was let down a lot by the shooting and movement. I can't put my finger on what I dislike about it but it just feels wrong for any game.

[drkmtr]

My opinion is that early id games had a potent balance of technological and gameplay innovation. From about the time of the first Quake onwards, we see more and more of the former and less and less of the latter. Doom 3 is a victim of this trend. Don't get me wrong, I love me some shadows, and I ate it up when that game was in development. But it was ultimately hollow; an undercooked vehicle for idTech4. That's why the most recent Doom 2016 game was so successful: it was the return to form. An amazing technology and an incredibly fun game woven together in beautiful harmony once again.

[ketmar]

and you can get doom3 shadows in Good Old Doom with my fork. yes, yes, i know that i am trying to put self-promotion in almost every thread here. sorry.

[theDia]

Ohhh, how I can relate to this.

I bought Doom3 on day one for my X-Box360 and never made it even to hell. When switching to the PS3, after playing all X-BNox Games I was interested in, I also bought Doom3 with the console. This time around I saw hell - and was also bored.

Well at least the disc provided me with a way to play Doom and Doom II on the console and thats the only reason I use it from time to time now. :)

[CorianderCastor]

I may be weird, but I like the gun play of Doom 3, and Rage for that matter. But I didn't finish Doom 3 until I started strafe jumping through the levels.

I even prefer Doom 3 to Quake 2, but neither over Quake or Doom.

 

12 hours ago, drkmtr said:

From about the time of the first Quake onwards, we see more and more of the former and less and less of the latter.

 

When id was firing the creative directors, to be replaced by Mr. I invented deathmatch.

 

And now we have full post ZeniMax id, and they manage a game that's somehow less divisive, hmm.

And after the creators "left" no less.

 

But we also get NuWolf 2 and Commander Mobile Phone from other studios.

I don't know if I'd like the former, or even the latter for that matter,

but I never even played the previous Machine Games's Wolves.

[drkmtr]

I also think a regression toward the mean is at work here. Luck and timing, that is, unknown factors, play a much greater role in the success of these things than we like to admit, even when the most highly skilled people are involved. The early games were so exceptional, so far from the mean, that the likelihood of doing even better in the future had to be very small. It's like a pro golfer who has an extremely good day, shooting well under his or her average. They rarely do better, or even equally well on the next day, even though they may be one of the best in the world at golfing. The unknown factors at play (a.k.a. luck) are strong enough to affect the outcome in a significant way. I think its the same way in game development, which is really complex and hence full of subtle aspects that are hard to master.

[drkmtr]

13 hours ago, ketmar said:

and you can get doom3 shadows in Good Old Doom with my fork. yes, yes, i know that i am trying to put self-promotion in almost every thread here. sorry.

 

Nice. I will definitely check it out.

[Agentbromsnor]

My opinion is actually the other way around: I think the game ramps up significantly towards the end. I always remember the Hell-levels leaving me wanting more.

The first half of Doom 3 is admittedly *very* slow, but I think it's worth it for that payoff.

When I first played Doom 3 just after it came out, I shared the same opinion of it being underwhelming. I would have rated it 5/10, maybe 6/10.
However; my opinion has shifted quite a lot since I've started playing it again (it was 2,50 Euros on Steam a couple of days ago, so I had a good excuse to buy it and play through it again). The overall sound-design is absolutely stunning and the fact that this is barely mentioned anywhere is a crime.

I'm playing through it two times now, once with my boyfriend using a co-op mod called Last Man Standing, and once more in singleplayer by myself.
I was expecting to be disappointed again like I was all those years ago, but I'm actually having a lot of fun!

I think I would rate it more along the lines of a 7 or 8 out of 10 nowadays. It held up significantly well and I think Doom 3 would make for an excellent introduction to the Doom franchise thanks to its slower pace.

That first half is pretty rough though, and even though the game's darkness has become kind of a meme, it can't be stated enough: this game is *way* too dark and there's not much of an excuse for that. Playing through Doom 3 you should kind of expect to stumble about in the dark. Meanwhile, an imp is munching on your ass because a monster-closet opened up somewhere behind you. And while this does get a bit repetitive, there's admittedly a kind of charm to exploring the dark corners of an overrun Mars-base while strange noises and the sounds of humming machinery fills your ears.

Sure, it's no classic Doom, but I think Doom 1 was kind of a "lightning in a bottle" moment. I've always viewed Doom 3 as a modern interpretation of Doom 1 Episode 1. It has a heavier focus on Doom's horror influences, but that's why I like Doom 3; I already know classic Doom and thanks to the modding community I can play classic Doom pretty much until the end of the time. So let's see what else Doom can bring; let is explore some boundaries.