UV Continuous Play vs HMP All Pistol Start

[dr_st]

39 minutes ago, eulo said:

The 12 who voted the gtfo option should gtfo.

Aren't you taking this a tad too seriously?

Edited June 24, 2019 by dr_st

[Zulk RS]

On 6/22/2019 at 5:33 AM, Nine Inch Heels said:

Would be nice if you provided a few examples of those "countless" mapsets that were designed to be played continuous only. 

 

These aren't what I'd call good wads but I can provide some examples of mapsets designed for continuous only.

 

• ProDoomer: It is literally impossible to pistol start later maps. I know; I've experimented. Map design makes pistol starts literally impossible without cheats and the "fly" console command
• DTS-T: Though I think it is possible to beat this without continuous, as far as I recall, the text file said it was designed for continuous play. I believe it might be possible to beat all maps with pistol starts but then that raises the question: If the Dev said it's "designed for continuous only" but you can still crawl through the map-set with pistol starts, will it be "pistol-start compatible" or "unintended play-stlye"? Personally I think it would be "unintended play-style" but I also think the answer will be different depending on who you ask. (Generally not considered a good wad but I like it)
• Gateway Experiments - Prime Directive: Again, don't remember the text file but I'm pretty sure it's continuous only because all maps are interlinked and feel like moving through one massive map rather than separate maps. (Good wad but I got stuck in one section where you need to use a computer to activate a teleport but I pressing "use" on the computer does nothing. Anyone know how to get past this section?)
• Junko: I don't have the text file for this but it's the same story with GE. It has interconnected maps. I am pretty sure I don't remember seeing larger weapons in the later maps. I may be remembering the bit about weapons wrong though so take it with a grain of salt. (Very good wad)
• Stronghold - On The Edge of Chaos: Honestly, I'm not sure if you could call it continuous only. It plays really different to your average doom wad. I am including it because, though you start out each map with a pistol and 100 Health, 0 Armor; you earn coins/currency in each map which you spend in a hub-world to buy much needed power-ups for later maps. I think a reasonably skilled player can do the whole thing without power ups but this set is hard as it is and doing that would add another layer of challenge. Again, I'm pretty sure it's not intended to be played that way so it raises the question again: "Pistol-start compatible" or "unintended play-style"

I also want to say "Wolfenstein: Blade of Agony" but I haven't played it myself so I don't know. Interestingly, wads designed for continuous play only seem to be much more common in ZDoom/GZDoom maps. Pistol start compatibility is still more common but it you can find more wads designed for continuous play only on those source ports.

 

On a side note, I also wanted to include ZDCMP2 on this list but it's not really a megawad but more one massive map. I had tons of fun with it but I can't imagine it being very fun without saves. Also, it's been years since I've played it so I can't remember if it auto-saves via scripts or not.

Edited June 24, 2019 by Zulk RS

[Nine Inch Heels]

3 hours ago, Zulk RS said:

These aren't what I'd call good wads but I can provide some examples of mapsets designed for continuous only.

Cool, finally a few examples that are interesting to look at. Definitely gonna play Stronghold when I get around to it, I like the way it sounds with the upgrades and whatnot.

3 hours ago, Zulk RS said:

Interestingly, wads designed for continuous play only seem to be much more common in ZDoom/GZDoom maps

Yeah, and it's not difficult to see why. Making use of ACS or ZScript to give actual meaning to playing continuous beyond weapon pick ups seems pretty much necessary. I don't think there really is much of a point in simply gating off pistol starting by way of denying weapons in later maps (though I'm sure somebody's already done that to some extent), but the moment you can for example do things like "retrieve mission critical item X in map Y, and use it hub-map Z to advance the plot" it becomes interesting. Frankly, I've been looking for a set with metroidvania influences for a while in the past, but couldn't find anything ever. If that exists, no matter how old or well-made, I'd really like to have a look.

[Spectre01]

There is also Echelon, another GZDoom megawad, that I remember pretty much everyone playing continuously when the Club played it way back. The first two maps contain no monsters but provide resources to gear up for when the combat actually begins. I'm sure you could pistol start it since it's not a hard wad but it doesn't make much sense with how progression is designed.

 

I think what it comes down to is not whether maps are beatable but if they are well-balanced and enjoyable from a pistol start perspective. Most modern releases are but a lot of 90's stuff feels very questionable in that regard. 

Edited June 24, 2019 by Spectre01

[Zulk RS]

8 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Definitely gonna play Stronghold when I get around to it, I like the way it sounds with the upgrades and whatnot.

 

Stronghold's maps are mostly "Invasion" style maps with purchasable upgrades and power-ups in between maps.

 

Gateway Experiments does the Metroidvania thing well. The only thing I have problem with is that I can't figure out how to "Use" the computer.

Edited June 25, 2019 by Zulk RS

[Kyoh1]

On 6/25/2019 at 3:23 AM, Zulk RS said:

Gateway Experiments does the Metroidvania thing well. The only thing I have problem with is that I can't figure out how to "Use" the computer.

 

Made me curious about it. Guess I'll have to try later.

 

Just to add a short comment, I have not a big Doom player background as others, but just taking Sunlust as example where you nearly die under the crusher exit at map 17 and start w/o armor and a few HP in map 18, it is actually kinda more challenging in continuous play than pistol start as you trigger monsters in numbers close to recovery items that you desperately need.

[Capellan]

Other.  There is no one true way to play Doom, other than "the way that is most fun for you personally".

 

[BigBoy91]

I just started UV-maxing Doom 2 with all pistol starts. Just get to the end as you normally would, but use the warp key in PrBoom+ to skip to the next level instead of hitting the exit. Forces you to be more mindful of your resources. I like it! I understand that some WADs were designed without pistol start in mind, and I'll play those accordingly.

 

At the end of the day though, we're all just trying to have fun here. Play how you prefer. I'm just a completionist geek who's been infatuated with this game lately.

Edited September 14, 2019 by NerdyButLazy

[baja blast rd.]

10 hours ago, NerdyButLazy said:

I just started UV-maxing Doom 2 with all pistol starts. Just get to the end as you normally would, but use the warp key in PrBoom+ to skip to the next level instead of hitting the exit. ...

 

Better yet: exit, and in the next map, use the 'reset map' key (which should be Home by default).

[BigBoy91]

Good call.

[Mystic 256]

I like UV Continuous Play because it makes it feel more like a adventure and that my actions and what I get or don't get on one map can affect the outcomes of the next maps giving it a sense of continuity which I just really like.

 

It also give the secret maps in megawads (usually maps 31 and 32) more of a reason for me to visit.

[purist]

I like playing continuously until I die and then restarting the level as a pistol start. It adds stakes to dying because if you do you lose all the weapons you've accumulated.

 

The downside is it is no good for long maps unless you're really patient. To combat that you could do mid-level saves after the first death.

[Loud Silence]

I prefer UV continuous. I pistol start only if mapset is made for that. For example i pistol started all maps in Shotgun Symphony (very cool mapset!) because it's designed for that. I always play on UV only, because i want all experience i can get and to raise my skills. Doom still have things to teach me.

[Horus]

I generally play continuous because that's what I find most fun. Too much ammo conservation and pistol/single shotgunning strong enemies are not things I personally enjoy. Usually UV but I do downgrade if things get too hard

Edited October 17, 2019 by Horus

[idbeholdME]

I play everything on UV-fast continuous (voted for UV Continuous). I like to view WADs as a whole, not disjointed levels that reset you after every single one.

[Doomkid]

Mappers who don't balance their mapsets for both continuous play and pistol starts are bad at their craft. It is not hard to balance a map so that it's perfectly playable from pistol start yet remains challenging and engaging even if you arrive with a few extra guns and ammo.

 

(Heheheh, that one oughta get 'em riled up!)

 

 

lol balance your maps however you like, variety is good - buck the system, fuck the formula, make 'em how you like 'em

Edited October 18, 2019 by Doomkid

[Lila Feuer]

Continuous-UV because it's an adventure for me. I like having all the stuff I've collected. Pistol starting is great if you want a challenge though.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Lila Feuer

[jeroa]

"people" who dont't exclusively play UV pistol start will turn into former humans when they die.