The Next Iteration of DSDA

[Lucky_Edie]

10 minutes ago, Lol 6 said:

This is not a cheating confession, I don't even know how to use XDRE

 

uh huh

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

1 minute ago, Lucky_Edie said:

 

uh huh

I'm serious, I was just asking something 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Lol 6

[Lucky_Edie]

What's your mother tongue?

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

Just now, Lucky_Edie said:

What's your mother tongue?

Spanish

[Lucky_Edie]

Your wording is highly suspect is all. Generally it is done on a case by case basis so you'd have to cheat to find out. 

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

2 minutes ago, Lucky_Edie said:

Your wording is highly suspect is all.

Heh, sorry if I sounded like that, it's just that I imagined that I'd be pointed out as cheater if I didn't clarify that. 

Quote

Generally it is done on a case by case basis so you'dhave to cheat to find out. 

Oh, ok. Thank you for the answer 

[Dimon12321]

@Lol 6 Your submissions will still be published, but they also will hold a dubious sign "(?)", indicating that you were previously cheating 

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

Ok, that's all I really wanted to know, thanks :-)

[GoneAway]

7 hours ago, Dimon12321 said:

@Lol 6 Your submissions will still be published, but they also will hold a dubious sign "(?)", indicating that you were previously cheating 

This isn't true. It's a case by case basis. Some people's demos won't be uploaded under any circumstances.

[doomdaniel95]

Hello, I've been informed that I have an old, broken demo for Resonance MAP04. This can be removed if there's a push to get rid of demos that don't play back properly with current WADs. Thanks!

[NY00123]

Hi, I hope it's the right place to ask the following about Hexen demos. There's a thread titled "Heretic demos (non-demopack and NM)", but I don't seem to locate a similar equivalent for Hexen.

 

The main reason for asking is the following pull request of mine for Chocolate Doom, concerning two versions of Hexen identified as "1.1": https://github.com/chocolate-doom/chocolate-doom/pull/1394

 

Basically, as discovered by me in 2020 (see thread given below*), there are indeed two such DOS versions. The later one fixes a bug concerning suits of armors, for which breaking them leads to spawning monsters even if '-nomonsters' is used.

 

The main question is, how should existing Hexen demos uploaded to the web be treated? As "early" 1.1 demos or "late" ones? Note that this only applies in case monsters are expected to be disabled. From what I saw, just like Doom v1.2, Heretic and Hexen don't encode the "nomonsters" bit in the demo file, so you need to explicitly disable monsters via a command-line switch.

 

When it comes to the original maps, only a few of the maps in Deathkings of the Dark Citadel may be impacted.

 

* Reference thread with details about the two aforementioned versions (and more):

 

[PVS]

Hi NY00123
HeXen demo topic is here:

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/94942-misc-heretic-hexen-demos/

I'm not sure if I understood you correctly on github, but you think - that the most used DOS HeXen 1.1 version was an old 1.1-1? Why do you think so? I think the new and latest 1.1-2 version has been used more. Anyway, this A_SoAExplode error in 1.1-1 HeXen - is a very specific, I do not think that someone caught this moment in -nomonsters mode before.

The source ports are based on the original Raven sources and cannot contain this error, but even if someone recorded -nomonsters demo on old 1.1-1 DOS exe and catch this moment - he will definitely notice that something is wrong, because monsters should not appear. In any case, I'm sure, -nomonsters demos with monsters are not allowed, such demos cannot be in the database, they don't have sense, we have latest and fixed 1.1-2 HeXen version for speedruns.

HeXen not very suitable for demorecording at all, because has a completely different game and maps logic vs Doom and Heretic. For example, IWAD maps not have normal -nomonsters, because many actions such as open/close/lower doors/walls etc. - activated by monsters itself and not executed. For this reason, in IWAD not possible finish no one hub in -nomonsters mode in normal way, somewhere player gets stuck and cannot go further.

Most likely, the only one HeXen -nomonsters demo with monsters - was recorded by me and attached in your thread as a demonstration of this error in old game versions, heh

 

[NY00123]

Hey @PVS, thanks for the information!

 

20 hours ago, PVS said:

HeXen demo topic is here:

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/94942-misc-heretic-hexen-demos/

 

I see. I wasn't sure if it was as generic as implied by the other thread's title "Heretic demos (non-demopack and NM)".

 

20 hours ago, PVS said:

Hi NY00123
HeXen demo topic is here:

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/94942-misc-heretic-hexen-demos/

I'm not sure if I understood you correctly on github, but you think - that the most used DOS HeXen 1.1 version was an old 1.1-1? Why do you think so? I think the new and latest 1.1-2 version has been used more. Anyway, this A_SoAExplode error in 1.1-1 HeXen - is a very specific, I do not think that someone caught this moment in -nomonsters mode before.

The source ports are based on the original Raven sources and cannot contain this error, but even if someone recorded -nomonsters demo on old 1.1-1 DOS exe and catch this moment - he will definitely notice that something is wrong, because monsters should not appear. In any case, I'm sure, -nomonsters demos with monsters are not allowed, such demos cannot be in the database, they don't have sense, we have latest and fixed 1.1-2 HeXen version for speedruns.

 

As the Quake shareware CD is currently the only known source of 1.1-2, and the files from Steam include 1.1-1, I assumed that the latter was indeed the significantly more common version.

 

The situation, of course, differs when it comes to source ports, as they're generally based on 1.1-2's code. What I'm unsure about is how many relevant source ports of Hexen are out there. GZDoom and Zandronum don't support demos made for Vanilla Hexen, just for a couple of examples. I'm not even sure there are that many demo-compatible Hexen ports. Chocolate Hexen and DSDA-Doom are two examples, the latter of which being a relatively new fork of PrBoom+um.

 

20 hours ago, PVS said:

HeXen not very suitable for demorecording at all, because has a completely different game and maps logic vs Doom and Heretic. For example, IWAD maps not have normal -nomonsters, because many actions such as open/close/lower doors/walls etc. - activated by monsters itself and not executed. For this reason, in IWAD not possible finish no one hub in -nomonsters mode in normal way, somewhere player gets stuck and cannot go further.

 

I'm unsure what are you referring to with IWAD maps not having normal -nomonsters. But yeah, it's obvious that the campaigns were not designed to be completed with -nomonsters. Of course, you can similarly get stuck in certain official Doom maps, say E1M8.

 

20 hours ago, PVS said:

Most likely, the only one HeXen -nomonsters demo with monsters - was recorded by me and attached in your thread as a demonstration of this error in old game versions, heh

 

If true, this is indeed not surprising at all, heh.

[Xymph]

The Categories listing does not yet describe Collector. I could guess but it's better to ask: what does this mean? Perhaps it should/can be added to the list?

 

Record entries are sometimes italicized, e.g. Doom2 map01 UV speed by Dastan. My theory is this done because it is actually the identical Pacifist entry that also fits there, in absence of a faster UV speed entry that does not meet Pacifist rules. This is supported by the API which returns category=Pacifist for the UV speed request.

 

If that theory is correct however, then why for 1klinecp map01 is Dastan's Pacifist entry not shown italicized in UV speed too? The API again supports that (which is actually how I stumbled onto this discrepancy).

[GoneAway]

Pacifist is only crosslisted if uv speed runs exist in the table and the pacifist record is faster. It does that to save someone from mistakenly believing a uv speed demo is a uv speed record when it's actually superseded by a pacifist run. It always crosslists when you are specifically asking for the record, because it is the record. You can also see that for instance in the record table view: https://dsdarchive.com/wads/1klinecp/table_view (in this one, it even crosslists uv max). In the default view, we're just showing what demos there are, and the goal is to minimize duplicates in general. Collector is in the category list on the home page, I guess it's an oversight that it isn't also described on the intro page.

[SAV88]

Anders Johnsen's 10:34 UV Max for Walkabout v2.0 misses one monster and two secret sectors. It gets 5/6 secrets, but the true maximum is 7/6 as shown in Kristian Ronge's nomo demo.

[Xymph]

For https://dsdarchive.com/wads/kdizd_12 the E2M1 entry should actually be on the E1M10 slot, could this be fixed?

 

For https://dsdarchive.com/wads/bloodrust the MAP01 entry NM100S can/should be NM speed, as the level has no official secrets. In such cases the records table on the wiki leaves out the redundant NM100S row, and thus DoomHero85's entry isn't listed.

Edit: encountered this again (on darken and dyst3) and realized this may not be such an infrequent situation, and categorization isn't likely to be changed on DSDA. So I updated my script to fetch/list the NM100S entry under NM Speed in these cases.

 

That leaves only the kdizd_12 slot fix.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Xymph
Update on NM100S/NM Speed categorization

[Xymph]

In case of multiple notes on a demo, they are not always spaced apart, e.g. here ("...all the kills.Newer versions...").

 

[Xymph]

For Icarus MAP11 the wiki contained a note for TGH's NoMo 1:18 demo: "UV speed route idea demonstration" (from the included .txt).

If this could be added in the DSDA database, it'll be restored at the next bot script run.

 

Edit: the same goes for MAP16 and MAP17, although those aren't in the main table so not affected by bot updates.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Xymph

[4shockblast]

On 10/23/2021 at 2:01 PM, vdgg said:

Vaporware demos require Eternity v4.01.00 or newer, maybe it's worth it adding it to Ports section?

This is noted, but just needs to be added at some point. I can't do that through the API. (never mind, I think I can do it, at some point, this will be resolved)

 

On 11/13/2021 at 12:21 PM, Xymph said:

alt_2012-05, hr2beta, ndcp2_2009 and valiant_old could be marked as old versions, analogue to scythe2_old and zone400_2021_07.

Should be fixed, although, in the case of hr2beta, I don't think this is entirely accurate, since it is a beta and not an old version.

 

On 11/29/2021 at 5:15 AM, SAV88 said:

Anders Johnsen's 10:34 UV Max for Walkabout v2.0 misses one monster and two secret sectors. It gets 5/6 secrets, but the true maximum is 7/6 as shown in Kristian Ronge's nomo demo.

Fixed, although I dunno if it should really say misses 1 or 2 secrets. The requirement to obtain extra secrets like that is still an open question for max rules I think.

 

On 12/12/2021 at 10:25 AM, Xymph said:

For https://dsdarchive.com/wads/bloodrust the MAP01 entry NM100S can/should be NM speed, as the level has no official secrets. In such cases the records table on the wiki leaves out the redundant NM100S row, and thus DoomHero85's entry isn't listed.

Edit: encountered this again (on darken and dyst3) and realized this may not be such an infrequent situation, and categorization isn't likely to be changed on DSDA. So I updated my script to fetch/list the NM100S entry under NM Speed in these cases.

 

That leaves only the kdizd_12 slot fix.

Yeah, this is likely to occur often. I imagine one day such categories will be fixed automatically, but at the moment, fixing each one individually doesn't seem particularly worthwhile given how commonplace it should be.

 

On 1/16/2022 at 3:32 PM, Xymph said:

For Icarus MAP11 the wiki contained a note for TGH's NoMo 1:18 demo: "UV speed route idea demonstration" (from the included .txt).

If this could be added in the DSDA database, it'll be restored at the next bot script run.

 

Edit: the same goes for MAP16 and MAP17, although those aren't in the main table so not affected by bot updates.

Hmm, are such comments actually notable, though? I think in some cases like Scythe map 19 where I think there's a movie from 18-19 to show an RJ, it might be worthwhile to explain the unusual movie format, but I'm not sure a regular case like this really warrants a comment.

Edited January 22, 2022 by 4shockblast

[xit-vono]

There are some demos in requiem that should not be cross-listed as speed because they are not intended to be fast: Map05 in 7:15, map09 in 9:39. map11 in 1:33, map12 in 3:40, map24 in 2:48

[El Juancho]

Hi, I would like to change my name from "JuanchoES" to "El Juancho" in DSDA please, thanks.

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by El juancho

[4shockblast]

On 1/22/2022 at 5:55 PM, xit-vono said:

There are some demos in requiem that should not be cross-listed as speed because they are not intended to be fast: Map05 in 7:15, map09 in 9:39. map11 in 1:33, map12 in 3:40, map24 in 2:48

This happens automatically, so it's not really controllable per demo. That said, hopefully one day, the logic will be updated not to crosslist TAS demos that are slower than non-TASes. :P

1 hour ago, El juancho said:

Hi, I would like to change my name from "JuanchoES" to "El Juancho" in DSDA please, thanks.

 

Done.

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

Hello, can you change my name from ":[Lol 6]:" to "xX_Lol6_Xx" please? 

Thanks in advance :-)

[Never_Again]

On 5/20/2020 at 2:32 PM, Never_Again said:

RETURN01

Own two prboom-plus v2.5.0.6 runs (E1M2 and E1M5) play back with that version only and desync with anything else.
These were recorded when prboom-plus' v1.2 support was still at the experimental stage.

 

Sorry, that was not quite correct.

The above comment doesn't apply to the 9:30 -fast E1M5 demo, which plays back fine with just about anything and should have the "Only plays back in specific prboom+ version" note removed.

[4shockblast]

On 2/8/2022 at 11:43 PM, Lol 6 said:

Hello, can you change my name from ":[Lol 6]:" to "xX_Lol6_Xx" please? 

Thanks in advance :-)

Updated.

 

On 2/14/2022 at 12:17 AM, Never_Again said:

 

Sorry, that was not quite correct.

The above comment doesn't apply to the 9:30 -fast E1M5 demo, which plays back fine with just about anything and should have the "Only plays back in specific prboom+ version" note removed.

OK, fixed. I also made the comments more specific, not sure why the ones on DSDA are so vague, heh.

[vdgg]

Arxangels MAP08 UV Max misses five monsters...

[xit-vono]

rs03 and rp11 by me have the wrong date. The demo date is off by a year, and they were both recorded in 2015.

[Poncho1]

Is it just me, or has the DSDA been updated recently? For me, it hasn't since the 11th.

 

Weird question, I know.

[GarrettChan]

3 minutes ago, Poncho1 said:

Is it just me, or has the DSDA been updated recently? For me, it hasn't since the 11th.

 

Weird question, I know.

4shock is on vacation