Doom 64 coming to PC and modern consoles?

[Nevander]

1 hour ago, seed said:

I have explained multiple times that since the official re-release is likely based on the original Doom 64 EX, and there was a plan to add the option to switch between the different regional settings/colors of blood

Yes, but I did not know this until after all this happened. I never knew of it having been a plan of EX but even then that was speculation if it was the case for this release. It took a tweet from the dev to confirm it was true.

 

This was really only a big deal for me because it is Doom 64. I simply did not expect to see green blood because I knew what it could have meant. At least it wasn't.

[Gez]

1 hour ago, Dark Pulse said:

It's not. It's being entirely rebased on KEX3. KEX1 isn't console-friendly at all.

It's based on both, because there's no real reason to ditch all the "Doom game" parts but all the "interface" parts can be replaced for enhanced portability without changing the gameplay.

 

It's similar to those recent official "Unity" ports. They're still the original Doom code (in the Doom Classic version), just put inside a Unity shell to handle I/O and other system things.

[NicoTheMarine]

I already have a N64, But I'm not paying $30 for Doom 64. My new TV has a brightness option, but it obviously won't work on the ingame brightness, just the picture's brightness. I tried it out with Doom 64 For Doom 2 though. That really helps the brightness issue.

[CyberDreams]

I'm a little late to this topic but w/e:

 

On 10/22/2019 at 2:30 PM, Edward850 said:

The blood colour is an option to switch between red and the green blood from the Japanese ROM. There, that's a freebie, please stop jumping to weird conclusions. It's not "censored", it's not some thing to change blood to enemy types. It's just region options. 

I kinda figured that as i saw in the video that there was red blood at a certain point when an enemy was being punched. It wasn't too hard to spot imo ;)

 

On 10/22/2019 at 4:37 PM, Nevander said:

It's still bad to show everyone the censored setting as your official presentation, because what percentage of people are going to see it and get turned away? They don't censor other Doom trailers, why is this one censored?

 

Well what do you expect if it's not stated outright? What are we left to believe given we know about the Japanese version having green blood?

 

All it would take to calm the waters is put a statement at the end of the trailer "BLOOD COLOR IS AN OPTION. GREEN BLOOD USED FOR DEMONSTRATION PURPOSES."

 

Telling us things like this prevents conclusion jumping.

I agree with this statement. From looking at the youtube comments, so many people are wondering why it has green blood instead of red. It was not a very good move imo, but now i understand why it was done (just from reading this topic i mean).

 

On 10/22/2019 at 4:48 PM, Edward850 said:

The videos were originally made for Nintendo Direct, which has certain expectations for presentation as it's made for a general all ages audience.

This does makes sense. Even though this game is originally from 1997 i do understand why it needs to be edited for a general all ages audience, especially one at a Nintendo Direct.

 

On 10/22/2019 at 4:48 PM, Edward850 said:

Because it wasn't changed for demonstration purposes. It's an ingame option, one originally not necessary to explain because it was a short series of clips made for Nintendo Direct, not an actual complete announcement of the game.

I do like that the option is there to switch from red to green blood :)

 

On 10/22/2019 at 5:03 PM, Nevander said:

Is the world going to explode if we see some red blood in a 1997 FPS?

Haha! I totally agree. But it is what it is. I mean, it was shown at a Nintendo Direct after all. The Switch is primarily aimed at children/teens imo (though a lot of adults do think it is neat including myself) and even though there are some violent games on the console i do believe that it's still primarily aimed at a younger demographic. A lot of younger people watch these directs and i'm sure that some parents wouldn't want they're 5 yr olds watching a bloody, violent game trailer no matter how old the game is (although who am i to say).

 

On 10/22/2019 at 5:07 PM, Edward850 said:

I'll just leave you with this @Nevander, I am in fact incredibly hurt and insulted that you would think we would ever miss something as blatant as the blood colour of Doom64. You have showed very little respect for this project ever since it was announced, and the fact that you think that Kaiser, Quasar and I wouldn't even get something as simple as the blood colour right shows you in truth hold a very low opinion of us and our work, least of all Kaisers which your own project expectly relied upon for his work, of all people. I'm frankly not sure what to think of you from this point on.

I think that Nevander cares a lot for this project. After all, it seems to me that Doom 64 is probably his favorite Doom game. He's just nitpicking and making sure that everything is going smoothly. Since you are working on the game i'm sure his post was annoying to you since you know way more about what's going on internally and you also know what needs to be done and what will be done, ect.

 

I personally have no worries whatsoever. From the trailer, the game already looks a little bit brighter and that makes me happy as i always have trouble seeing in this damn game lol. I'm sure it was just the settings though.

 

[Gerardo194]

Blah Blah Blah, I wish it could add brown blood as well, that would be funny! Can't wait to see more of this new Doom64 release and I'm sure NDS will do a good job!!!

[Gez]

Add a 360° hue shifter for blood color. :p

Edited October 27, 2019 by Gez

[Dark Pulse]

Ecto Cooler colored blood when?

[Nevander]

On 10/27/2019 at 6:42 AM, CyberDreams said:

I think that Nevander cares a lot for this project. After all, it seems to me that Doom 64 is probably his favorite Doom game. He's just nitpicking and making sure that everything is going smoothly. Since you are working on the game i'm sure his post was annoying to you since you know way more about what's going on internally and you also know what needs to be done and what will be done, ect.

I do. Couldn't have worded this better myself. Doom 64 has always fascinated me, and still does. Dating waaay back to be buying a used cart at a place called GameCrazy (not GameStop).

 

I love the game and I am truly glad to see it finally officially getting proper re-recognition. That blood man, got me all worked up.

 

You know, if there never was a Japanese version before, I'd instead be asking "why is it green" vs. "OMG they censored it!" That was always my worry.

 

On 10/27/2019 at 4:40 PM, Gez said:

Add a 360° hue shifter for blood color.

That's a great idea really. Customizable blood colors, per enemy if possible. I want some pink blooded Pinkies.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Nevander

[Lollie]

19 minutes of Doom 64 being played on PC, from Bethesda's latest stream for Doom's 26th Anniversary. Skip to 1:00:00, or [click here!]

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Lollie

[seed]

I just don't stop being right it seems <3 (huh, so that's how it feels like I guess).

 

There's the Vulkan renderer I expected to see in the options, and also regional settings (I spy a Language section with my eye, I hope Japanese will be one of them. I wanna play it in Japanese honestly lol, since I didn't bother to experience that version before mouse issues became a thing in the original EX). There's even a framerate limiter and FOV slider (first is more surprising than the latter, FS also had one). The limiter will come in handy since if it's going to use SDL I'm already expecting VSync to be unusable, sadly.

 

I also LOVE how the brightness option works, that's exactly the behavior I wanted - no garbage gamma correction like in the rest of the Doom ports. So, that's a pretty pleasant surprise so far, this is going to be a... groovy experience. Now all that's left to know (for me) will be its accuracy/demo-compatibility. Thanks Kaiser & co. Plus Ultra!

[Immorpher]

And the awesome soundtrack is there too! We're in for a treat. :D

[Nevander]

Everything looked great in that gameplay, but there's one thing I don't like. You probably know what I'm going to say, the health packs. Yea yea, I know they *had* to change them because of Red Cross' hard-on for a plus symbol that happens to be red. That blue-white or whatever looks so off.

 

I hope this release will support loading custom WADs like EX. That way, we can load a sprite replacer to restore them. It's a little thing, but it bothers me. To be honest, I think this bothers me more than the earlier blood color debacle because this is something we can't toggle.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Nevander
Typo

[Quasar]

I think our artist did a good job on the replacement. We had to go through multiple options before we got approval. Not every single change to something is automatically bad, this is just a knee-jerk reaction. How does the color of a cross on a medkit impact your gameplay experience exactly?

 

The coloration is a nod to the health packs in Doom 2016.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Quasar

[Dark Pulse]

If it can accept PWADs, a sprite replacement is a trivial thing. If not, an extremely nitpicky thing compared to all that's gained isn't worth making a huge fuss about.

 

Especially as it's something beyond the makers' control, and anything new hasn't used red crosses for health in literally a good 20 years at least.

[fraggle]

Here's the Red Cross Medikit FAQ I wrote, in case anyone needs a reminder of why developers are required to replace the red cross symbol.

[Edward850]

31 minutes ago, Quasar said:

How does the color of a cross on a medkit impact your gameplay experience exactly?

He couldn't complain about the blood colour anymore, he had to find something.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Edward850

[seed]

I think the blue take on them is actually pretty cool tbh.

 

It took me a few minutes to get used to it at first, but I think it's good now. And yea, don't expect the red cross to come back to any remaster/re-release, that's simply not possible (the symbol is not public domain). If it has PWAD support someone will inevitably make a pack that restores the original textures anyway, so who cares.

Edited December 11, 2019 by seed

[Linguica]

The crosses are blue because they contain the blue juice from the potions, duh.

[ReaperAA]

18 minutes ago, Linguica said:

The crosses are blue because they contain the blue juice from the potions, duh.

 

I was gonna say something similar. Infact I think Bethesda should have gone with blue cross instead of green for the other ports as well. Blue cross makes them consistent with the blue health potions.

 

(Though atleast the green crosses in those are are still better than the pills the old versions had)

Edited December 11, 2019 by ReaperAA

[Dark Pulse]

1 hour ago, Linguica said:

The crosses are blue because they contain the blue juice from the potions, duh.

And the glowing "eyes" of the armor bonuses are green because they provide green armor if you don't have any.

 

It all makes sense!

[warman2012]

On 10/24/2019 at 7:24 PM, NicoTheMarine said:

I already have a N64, But I'm not paying $30 for Doom 64.

 

 

The clowns at Bethesda are charging $30 for a game that is 20+ years old and whose source code is somewhat freely available on the net? LULULULULUL!!!

They're even more stupid than I imagined if they are THAT dumb!

Edited December 11, 2019 by warman2012

[Nevander]

3 hours ago, fraggle said:

Here's the Red Cross Medikit FAQ I wrote, in case anyone needs a reminder of why developers are required to replace the red cross symbol.

That didn't help. All it tells me is that for some reason I can't comprehend, a symbol that is used in real life scenarios for some reason bears any sort of connection to health packs in video games. It's not a copyright thing according to that, so how exactly does using a symbol of neutrality violate the Geneva Convention... in a video game... which is not war... or even remotely the same thing. I don't, can't, understand.

 

3 hours ago, Edward850 said:

He couldn't complain about the blood colour anymore, he had to find something.

That's right I did. Because this is a re-release. An official re-release. Not some fan TC like other projects. I don't care what the reason is, changing shit like this is like sacrilege to me. I feel exactly the same way about the BFG Edition changes and censorship of the Wolfenstein maps.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Nevander

[Graf Zahl]

What's so unclear about

 

The red cross symbol is not a copyright or a trademark; it is actually explicitly protected by international law (the Geneva Conventions).

 

Don't argue whether it makes sense or not, that's the state of things and they won't change.

[Edward850]

On 10/25/2019 at 1:24 PM, NicoTheMarine said:

I already have a N64, But I'm not paying $30 for Doom 64.

 

20 minutes ago, warman2012 said:

The clowns at Bethesda are charging $30 for a game that is 20+ years old and whose source code is somewhat freely available on the net? LULULULULUL!!!

They're even more stupid than I imagined if they are THAT dumb!

Come again? Doom64's source code is not "freely available", they are selling you a game (not source code), and no price for the game has been announced.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Edward850

[Doomkid]

4 minutes ago, Nevander said:

That didn't help. All it tells me is that for some reason I can't comprehend, a symbol that is used in real life scenarios for some reason bears any sort of connection to health packs in video games. It's not a copyright thing according to that, so how exactly does using a symbol of neutrality violate the Geneva Convention... in a video game... which is not war... or even remotely the same thing. I don't, can't, understand.

 

That's right I did. Because this is a re-release. An official re-release. Not some fan TC like other projects. I don't care what the reason is, changing shit like this is like sacrilege to me.

Here’s a better question: In what way does this change effect your gameplay experience? How is respecting the wishes of a humanitarian organisation by recolouring a small handful of pixels hurting you? It really does smack of a little kid pounding his fists on the dinner table because dad brought home the wrong colour Hot Wheels car.

 

Look, I get it. You’re anti-censorship. When I see Wolf3D with all the imagery censored, it annoys me too. The entire crux of the game is that it’s WWII and you’re killing Nazis and Hitler so when all the WWII, Nazi and Hitler imagery is gone, so is the entire narrative purpose of the game. It genuinely fucks up the experience. Furthermore, the best recipie for a second Hitler is to ban all mention of him and his ways so yeah, censoring that imagery is lame-brained, ineffectual and a prime example of censorship. “You can’t handle the truth, so let’s spoon feed you a Little Tikes version of reality, now go enjoy being exploited because we never taught you about the dangers of being exploited” is how it comes across to me.

 

How is that analogous to this at all? What idea is being censored? What part of the gameplay is being fucked up? How is respecting the wishes of the Red Cross tantamount to censorship any more than a developer not being able to slap McDonald’s logos everywhere?

 

I’m really not seeing the connection. Reminds me of those people who think they’re being “censored” when they’re asked to respect someone’s pronouns. No one is FORCING you to do it, but if you don’t, you’re being an asshole for no reason. You’re “censoring” yourself by not running up to every random fat person and saying “Hey fatty!!” aren’t you? Because we’re human beings in adult society.. If it’s no skin off my nose to respect someone’s wishes, then why not just do it? It’s just some recoloured plus symbols! No important ideas are being censored here, no history is being shielded from the masses! What’s the friggin deal?

[Linguica]

A whole bunch of countries, including America, literally signed a treaty, promising that their citizens wouldn't be allowed to use the red cross symbol and would get in trouble if they tried. I'm not sure why this is such a difficult thing for people to grasp.

[seed]

50 minutes ago, warman2012 said:

The clowns at Bethesda are charging $30 for a game that is 20+ years old and whose source code is somewhat freely available on the net? LULULULULUL!!!

They're even more stupid than I imagined if they are THAT dumb!

 

Sigh. Okay... don't know where to start but in 2 points:

 

1) No price has been announced yet.

2) The source code (which is reconstructed by the way - similar to games like Blood, D64's source was never released. Also, the reconstruction is incomplete in both GEC GZDoom Master Edition and the original Doom 64 EX). The source code's availability only affects the process of making ports for the game, it has zero connection with one's ownership of the game. You still need to provide the game files by yourself to use the ports, they don't come with them, and the source code does not contain them. Info about what a source code is.

Edited December 11, 2019 by seed

[warman2012]

31 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

 

Come again? Doom64's source code is not "freely available", they are selling you a game (not source code), and no price for the game has been announced.

 

Somewhat being that Doom 64's source code was derived from Doom 2 and that Doom 2's source code IS available and source ports have been modded for the rest of the effects that Vanilla Doom did not have i.e. acceptable substitutes are already available. 

 

Also, thanks for the info about the price.

[seed]

5 minutes ago, warman2012 said:

Somewhat being that Doom 64's source code was derived from Doom 2 and that Doom 2's source code IS available and source ports have been modded for the rest of the effects that Vanilla Doom did not have i.e. acceptable substitutes are already available. 

 

Also, thanks for the info about the price.

 

Different games, different engines, different features, capabilities, limitations, and a substitute/remake/TC is not the real thing.

Edited December 11, 2019 by seed

[Quasar]

"$X for a game that is Y years old" is a really REALLY tired thing btw. Remasters and remakes are new projects. New investments. Using new technology, and require new labor to produce. Classic gamers who praise the oldies and go on at length about how modern games are trash and the industry peaked in the 90's and then turn around and bitch because a Nightdive game is $20 (happens for EVERY FUCKING GAME) have no attachment to reality or realization of their own hypocrisy in this regard. If it's so good, you should be willing to pay more than a paltry sum to re-experience it the way it could have been back in the day if technology had allowed basic niceties we now take for granted.