Interception II CP (Old thread, Return to original)

[joe-ilya]

Final version of my map : https://www.doomshack.org/uploads/everlaster_final.wad

 

I watched Moustachio's playtest video and did the following :

 

-Replaced most chaingunners with zombiemen and shotgunners

-Added depth to the empty walls

-Replaced plasma gun with BFG

-Non-secret soulsphere is now on easy only

-Adjusted the lava ring a little

-Inched out the secret soulsphere switch

[Moustachio]

@DerFurer'sFace I think the SS Nazi might be the best bet since there are absolutely no other usages of it. That being said, we could use some DECORATE or other ZDoom-only script to force some compatibility with mods. It'd be tricky though since the boss would still need to be a boss and not an SS equivalent. That could be a letdown.

 

@grrfield This mod is not currently compatible with Zandronum due to heavy voodoo doll usage I believe. There would have to be an ACS script replacing the voodoo doll scripts for ZDoom-based ports.

 

Also, MAP15 is my map, so I can rate it what I like ;D but I agree, a 3 was too harsh...

Edited May 1, 2020 by Moustachio

[DFF]

@Moustachio I need to watch the review but you mentioned that you were upset with the current map15 midi and liked the old one, I think i maybe remember the one you described, but I did move some midi's around just to moving maps around, nothing was set in stone, if you remember the name or could find it in the WAD i can replace it.

[Moustachio]

@DerFurer'sFace I actually like where the old MAP15 midi ended up now tbh, but I did remember the current MAP15 midi just being a little repetitive.

 

Also, I got more videos:

 

MAP18-MAP20:

Spoiler

 

Ratings:

• MAP18: 7/10
• MAP19: no map/10
• MAP20: 7/10

 

MAP21-MAP23:

Spoiler

 

Ratings:

 

• MAP21: 10/10
• MAP22: 7/10
• MAP23: 6/10

 

Bugs found:

• There's a teleport to a dummy sector in MAP23 that can break the game. It's near the yellow key door on the path towards the cyberdemons.

 

Mappers featured:

@General Rainbow Bacon

@DerFurer'sFace

@JadingTsunami

@A2Rob

@NeedHealth

Edited May 2, 2020 by Moustachio
Added mappers' credits

[DFF]

saw your vid on map31. I'm glad it was able to entertain you, I do apologize that I missed some little details (the toilet secret was 48 units tall so couldn't enter, a shame, not sure how I missed). 

The maps main fault is I need to make the main path a lot clearer, a bit to hidden in a few places.

[Moustachio]

@DerFurer'sFace Actually, a huge reason I got lost was due to my right mouse button crapping out while I was trying to open a door in the ship. I think if that door had opened the first time I clicked it, I would never have gotten so lost.

[DFF]

I double checked that door and it was a little close to another walk line trigger, might have also been the problem not sure.

[DFF]

Also I realized that while locking the doors for the spiders may be nice, kinda ruins the map for secret exploring, so I made the nlue key switch reopen everything. That brick you hit was a secret but was closed due to the spiders.

[Moustachio]

@DerFurer'sFace Ah, I see. No worries, just some kinks to iron out. It was a glorious map at the end of the day, and I trust that the new revisions will only bolster it.

 

I've got MAP24's playthrough right here:

 

Spoiler

 

Rating: 9/10

 

Map Rating:

9/10

 

Map Author:

@galileo31dos01

 

I feel like the maps get better as they go on with the set. Maybe the earth theme is just a lot easier to work with.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Moustachio

[galileo31dos01]

Thank you for playing my map Moustachio and for taking your time to test all the other maps as well, really what we were needing. I'll get back later with lots of answers to your comments, once I finnish watching it (1 hour in by now). 

 

One thing you may want to know, that midi is getting replaced by a new one courtesy of Stewboy, which should be public in the discord server iirc. Nothing against the midi you heard, but I asked for a replacement that would fit better with how my map was turning from my perspective and DerFurer suggested me to contact Stewboy, and after talking he accepted to compose what currently is an excellent piece for the map, so if you're curious don't forget to check it out.

 

Also, welcome back!

[galileo31dos01]

Okay, now that I watched it all, I gotta remember everything. Will keep it in spoilers.

 

Spoiler

So, first of all, I'm very glad you liked the magnum opus syndrome that I pulled out, because I reckon it got way longer than I had planned from the beginning, yet I'm satisfied with the whole product and yeah also proud of it. 

 

Let's get something out of the way, which is who's "Dr. Jones Abbys"?, he was a scientist and an archaeologist who once went on a trip to idk Egypt, entered a pyramid, found a golden skull, stole it and took it back to his lab, as he wanted to study the forbidden treasure. He was also making a portal to somewhere unknown (the destroyed machine outside the start room), but what he didn't know was the skull was like haunted and shit, so he kinda unleashed an unknown force who killed him (he's the dead shotgunner). Then years later doomguy got there somehow, he's trapped and must find a way out of the island. That's when you see a glowing skull locked in a cage, but hey nothing ever stopped doomguy from robbing colorful things for his collection. You only can expect the worst until then...

 

I made this up as an excuse to justify the absence of yellow doors or switches, since the skull itself is the "trigger" to progress (technically the linedefs around). The title is a words puzzle: abbys-mal-(mal)ediction, yup.

 

Anyways, speaking of progression, as you obviously could tell, it is intentionally designed to encourage exploration and rewarding the player with optional routes, secrets and powerful weaponry before any lock-ins, all to favor replay. Each main course leads to a PR or a RL, but if you look for secrets, you can find either a RL prior the mandatory PR, or viceversa. So, I'm very aware that on a first time it can feel disorienting due to multiple tasks and the mere size of the map can be daunting, but for every setup there's either a hint to the next part, e.g. the coloured teleports after the green part tell which key you'll find. Maybe I could draw small sticks with coloured skull textures to make a little clearer, though missing the face switch in the green part the way you did isn't really a faulty of the map imo, since it's technically not hidden. 

 

Aside from that, you got lost after the SMM/rev fight because you made a beeline to that teleport instead of looking at the cave, and then you forgot it existed (besides, going in the cave opens up another cave in the narrow path to the fight, that has another radsuit, something not obvious but if anyone happens to see it, good for them). The teleport is just a shortcut to the start, but it's not progress per se, so I personally don't agree that part needs more signs. 

 

But all said I know confusion may happen in a map this huge no matter how clear or not progression is, so I hope you don't take my response too harsh. I recently played Remnant, which is so huge I got a bit lost sometimes, but that's most likely going to happen to everyone on a blind playthrough because it's naturally part of the experience, so foreknowledge definitely ought to make it a lot smoother, though it never was part of the intention at least not with the key hunt. 

 

Fights may require practicing for every skill setting, depends on each individual, UV most definitely is supposed to increase violently towards the end, while HMP and HNTR are less demanding and more forgiving without changing the core of the fights, e.g. mega-goodies replace soulsphere/GA, less spammy fights, less or no specific troublesome species, increased timer in platforming section. I opted for a mix of fast-paced and the typical "huge exploratory map where you take all the time you need", inspiration came from the sprawling maps from Interception 1, bit of Skillsaw, Avactor, the Community Chest vibe in general, and Hell Revealed 2 particularly in the finale. The weapon/key set pieces take around 2-5 minutes of "scripted trickery" depending on the case, and then cleanup adds more time spent. The platforming section is the longest "set piece", my main inspiration was a similar setup in Combat Shock 2, a slaughter wad you may want to check (;

 

So now let's see if I remember all your most casual random thoughts:

 

- The teleport linedef to the RL fight is to bring you inside of it in case you took the PR side first. I never liked that so I'm thinking that a boom tele-switch might look better, which then should be buried in the land.

 

- Mandatory BFG is a reward for finding both red and blue skulls, that's the whole setup, you can then use it in the lava and in the finale. That's a pistol start thing, or else if you found the much earlier secret BFG it's a two for one (too bad you ignore the little switches :c). I don't get why you felt like "that was it?", when you were given the most valuable tool for the rest of the map. Now I'm not sure whether the finale is doable without the BFG, but pray for the soul who gets there BFG-less... 

 

- A secret behind the platforming exit sounds, not bad, but I wouldn't know what could fit there... or maybe I do? Hmm, I might check this. BTW,

 

- Widening the pillars in the finale is a risky move, because of all the control sector/voodoo doll fuckery that's behind the whole setup, and it might hinder player's movement. I might take a look at that anyways, but no promises.

 

- Way back at the first 30 minutes, I saw you squeezed past the SMM on the blood. That's one way to dash to the cave, but there are actually two other safer ways around. 

 

- The scrolling portal texture in the floor is done via Transfer Sky action, 272 iirc. I used this in other parts too, in a secret pentagram, in the hut before the platforming part. Oh, that also uses action 242 "Create Fake Ceiling and Floor", it took a while to find the sweet spot. This action is great to create deep water along with custom colormaps, as seen in a secret you missed :p. For many other boom complex tricks, Nine Inch Heels was a huge help, so it's thanks to her that I could make some cool magic, modesty aside. 

 

- You said multiple times my map should be in the slot 29. I personally wouldn't move Valk's map earlier since it has a strong map 29 vibe to it from the get-go, more than mine despite the difficult spike. If anything, I would rather accept slot 27, because idk, many other megawads have the map 27 the hardest or one of the hardest for sure. You guys have the last word so, do what you think it's best.

 

I also saw some little things here and there that need fixing, like the red skull pillar, I never saw it raising to the top, that was a wtf moment for me to watch.

 

Anyways, thank you again for playing! It was a very entertaining and bit exhausting video to watch ;p

 

[Moustachio]

@galileo31dos01 Well, I try to stray away from editing during these in order to show off the entirety of my experience. It just so happens that I went in blind and got blindsided by the sheer scope of it.

 

You really can't go wrong with a stewboy midi, so I'm happy to hear that. Maybe we can use the current midi on a map like MAP15.

 

For widening the pillars, I believe editing single vertices at a time will not distort and potentially ruin the control sectors. It is definitely hard to grab those items, so one more idea I can put forth would be to have some switches available to lower them. I was also at the end of a lengthy playthrough and very hyped up, so that had a lot to do with that as well haha

 

We'll play around with the placement of the map as a team then, since it seems there are some alternative opinions going around. I'd be happy just to move it up to a slot closer to endgame.

 

As far as the BFG goes, I was just more surprised at the lack of ambush than anything. Playing through this on continuous makes the BFG more of an "oh cool, another BFG" moment mind you, so that influenced my reaction to it as well.

 

I know why I missed the cave, and I feel like I was justified in my position. That revenant swarm is brutal, but it totally leads you over towards the opposite end of the map. I think a similar, smaller swarm within the cave I missed would have likely ensured that I went into it. My bad, but it was just a little out of sight while I was playing.

 

That being said, I've stated a lot of times that I love getting lost in Doom. A map like this is definitely my ideal layout and progression, and I've made similarily large maps and watched people struggle with similar issues. It's just the nature of the beast. Having the camera rolling also made me a little more anxious to leave, as I didn't want to waste disk space on my PC as well as have the video drag out even longer than it ended up being.

 

So yeah, great map overall. And I love the abysmal addiction pun now that I've had it pointed out to me haha

 

Thanks for engaging in some conversation on your map, it's really insightful coming from the mouth of the mapper. Hopefully this will encourage a deeper discussion of all of the maps in the set. Maybe even some sort of Mapper's Statement that could perhaps go in the accompanying text file?

 

EDIT: Finished up the playthrough. You can view the whole 15+ hour long journey in this here playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfWcry87lZxlqr8652OZ6iof3MIBOY_GI

 

MAP25-MAP26:

Spoiler

 

 

MAP27:

Spoiler

 

 

MAP28-MAP29:

Spoiler

 

 

MAP30:

Spoiler

 

 

Bugs found:

• The Spider Mastermind room in MAP27 didn't let me leave, so I couldn't finish the map.

 

Ratings:

• MAP25: 6/10
• MAP26: 5/10
• MAP27: 9/10 (but the exit is broken)
• MAP28: 7/10
• MAP29: 10/10
• MAP30: 10/10

 

Authors featured:

@JadingTsunami

@Pegleg (for some reason purist got a credit on MAP26?)

@General Rainbow Bacon

@valkiriforce

@DerFurer'sFace

Edited May 3, 2020 by Moustachio
Uploaded more videos

[DFF]

Just a heads up, Moustachio has setup a Zdaemon server running Int 2, feel free to hop in if you want to play with some friends.

This is the ZDaemon Server link:

 

zds://97.118.79.75:10666

I also plan to releace a RC1.1 to fix some of the maps with unskippable map issues.

[DFF]

Also a heads up, RC1.1 is now released. biggest changes include an updated (but not final) map01, map2 skip, updated map11, and some minor balancing/map softlock or skip fixes. Hopefully this version will be more multiplayer or longrun friendly, hopefully all maps are now complete able.

The link on the main page still works, but here's a relink just in case.

Also @Moustachio, saw the vid with the updated final boss you tweaked around with. I think with some sprite edits (including making the boss a bit larger and adding a death animation), it would be a great improvement. whenever thats ready i'll incorporate it.

Edited May 2, 2020 by DerFurer'sFace

[NeedHealth]

@Moustachio I thought my old map23 got taken out a long time ago. I recall seeing on the discord that you made an update to it, what happend to that ? Thank for playibg either way.

[Moustachio]

@NeedHealth I did make an update, but it probably got broken somewhere down the line.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Moustachio

[sergeirocks100]

i played the WAD and it crashed as soon as i tried to play map01, map02 starts up fine when i enter it through the console, i'm using GZDoom 4.2.0, i don't have any clue why this is happening, here's the crash report

CrashReport.zip

[purist]

@Moustachio - I'm surprised you got any use out of the map I sent you. Thanks for the credit on it but I don't mind if you want to take sole credit as it's barely recognisable from the original.

[Moustachio]

@purist Ah, so you and Pegleg both did work on it. I totally forgot that map was started by you, I thought you did the ending room that Pegleg did. That clears up some confusion, thanks.

 

@sergeirocks100 I'm using GZDoom 4.3.3 and it's loading up RC1.1, Map01 for me. Maybe it's a bug with that version of GZDoom? If someone with better knowledge of how to read those crash reports could take a look at them, that'd be helpful.

 

@DerFurer'sFace I've got a new revision of Map15: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13QjxFV6CPJjONgd-OiCp2LvAFjAJOf81DJWgA2Kt9iA/edit?usp=drivesdk

 

Fixes a lot of the texture and ammo issues and balances a few of the fights near the end. It's still mostly as tough, but you just don't run out of ammo as much.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Moustachio

[Pegleg]

24 minutes ago, Moustachio said:

Ah, so you and Pegleg both did work on it. I totally forgot that map was started by you, I thought you did the ending room that Pegleg did. That clears up some confusion, thanks. Sorry to hear you don't want to be credited on the wad.

 

I don't think that's what purist meant. They would be OK with you taking sole credit for the work, but I think they would be perfectly happy to be included on the list of credits for the map, too.

 

By the way, thank you for playing through all the maps. Hopefully there are more like them for feedback.

[Moustachio]

@Pegleg Ohh, gotcha. Sorry bout that, I just misread that

[DFF]

@Moustachio Comments I got recently made me want to consider and ask you, for map 30 the CCWILV says its "Interception 2", but the dehacked says the maps name is "guillotine", which do you think is better, or do you think its fine leaving them different as it currently is?

Edited May 3, 2020 by DerFurer'sFace

[DFF]

Another thing to note, I can mention @NaZa, but chances are I think he's too busy or cannot complete map19, which is fine if so, but we may need someone to make a map19 if someone is willing.

[NaZa]

1 minute ago, DerFurer'sFace said:

Another thing to note, I can mention @NaZa, but chances are I think he's too busy or cannot complete map19, which is fine if so, but we may need someone to make a map19 if someone is willing.

I can finish it if you want me to. I'll just ask you to give me a strict deadline to motivate myself :)

[DFF]

@NaZa could you finish it by may16th? time is not a huge issue right now but since you want a decent deadline, I can grant you 2 weeks to finish. That should be plenty to make it nice and then still somewhat strict.

[NaZa]

That's good enough. I'm on it!

[UnnamedMarine]

On 4/30/2020 at 4:25 PM, DerFurer'sFace said:

@UnnamedMarine
There is a dehacked boss which ends the level when beaten, sadly this means any mod that replaces the waffen SS will break the fight and make it unbeatable. I may consider or see if its possible to move it to another monster that isn't used.
I'm assuming the mod you are using has a monster replacement for the SS.

That could be the issue, i was using BrutalDoom v21 (Gold Edition)

[DFF]

@Moustachio Need to change permissions on your map15 link, can't access it.

[sergeirocks100]

6 hours ago, Moustachio said:

@sergeirocks100 I'm using GZDoom 4.3.3 and it's loading up RC1.1, Map01 for me. Maybe it's a bug with that version of GZDoom? If someone with better knowledge of how to read those crash reports could take a look at them, that'd be helpful.

the worst part is, when i load up the map through Ultimate Doom Builder, using the same version of GZDoom, the map works fine, it crashes when you try to play it normally, it crashes when you try to launch it through the console, but it plays fine when you start it through Ultimate Doom Builder

[Moustachio]

@DerFurer'sFace It should have link sharing on now. Here's the new link:

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/13QjxFV6CPJjONgd-OiCp2LvAFjAJOf81DJWgA2Kt9iA/edit?usp=drivesdk

 

Calling Map30 "Interception II" was what I had intended. I wanted the end screen to say "Interception II Finished," but now that the map authors author's are displayed on the CWILVs, it wouldn't really make sense to keep it that way. I suppose then that "Guillotine" would be the better name given those two choices.

 

@sergeirocks100 Hmm, that is strange. Maybe take a look at what UDB's launch commands are in the configuration settings and see if you're doing anything different from the console?

 

EDIT: I've played some of the latest RC and I gotta say, that new Map01 is very intelligently balanced. Providing the RL instead of the Super Shotgun was a good move on DFF's part, and it really did make a huge difference in how the map played out. It was a lot easier to make quick progress in the map, but it was still challenging enough that it killed me a couple times on UV (which having known the map, I think that's a good amount). All in all, I'm really satisfied with the new Map01! Obviously, it can be tweaked as time goes by, like any map, but I think I would be more or less satisfied if I downloaded it off of /idgames like this.

 

I found a pretty big slime trail here before the flesh room. Here are some screenshots of it:
 

Spoiler

 

 

 

I think that's the only bug I found so far, so that's excellent. Slime trails can really be kinda random sometimes from my experience. If anyone knows how to prevent them more effectively, please share! I'll be doing my own research into slime trails and the right nodebuilder to render the final build of the wad in.

 

One more thing,

 

I was trying to touch up Map12 when I realized that I didn't like it so much anymore. It's fine to playthrough, but the layout is awkward and feels random at times, and I feel like it's not the best intro for the episode.

 

I can continue to touch up the existing Map12, but I've also gone and made a brand new Map12 that takes about 11 minutes to finish and should be around the same level of difficulty. It's a much better, more cohesive map, and I'll post it and see what DFF thinks after I've balanced the UV difficulty.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Moustachio
Better formatting