DOOM 4 VANILLA v3.2

[Skerbergs]

They should really add infinite ammo for the pistol, as it is in doom 2016...

[DarkShotX45]

3 hours ago, Freddy_Zart said:

They should really add infinite ammo for the pistol, as it is in doom 2016...

Not possible in DeHackEd, from what I heard.

[TheNoob_Gamer]

2 minutes ago, DarkShotX45 said:

Not possible in DeHackEd, from what I heard.

 

3 hours ago, Freddy_Zart said:

...

Possible but the shotguns' ammunition will be glitched. In vanilla the game only allows 2 inf-ammo weapon, so the (very shitty) solution is removing/modifying a melee weapon to free up an infinite ammo slot for other weapons.

[Redneckerz]

@Noiser I had a question that has popped up for me during research Dehacked patches.

 

In the DOS version, there is a Doom2.exe, a Doom2bak.exe and Dehacked (along with the D4V.DEH file).

 

In the text readme, i read the following line:

 

''If you want, you can also use command-lines that should go like that:

doom2 -file [CUSTOMWAD].wad D4V.wad

------------------------------

Be aware that you NEED this executable to play the mod, since it's already merged with the Dehacked file. If you try to play with other executable, you will have to merge the .deh by yourself - which can only be made using the original Dehacked for DOS.''

 

I assume this refers to the Doom2.exe that is supplied.

 

My question:

• Is this an original Doom2 executable that has the Dehacked file merged?

Because if that is the case, then this is not a legal executable as its essentially a renamed Doomhack.exe with D4V's dehacked patch applied to it.

Edited February 29, 2020 by Redneckerz

[-TDRR-]

5 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

Because if that is the case, then this is not a legal executable as its essentially a renamed Doomhack.exe with D4V's dehacked patch applied to it.

This is the moment where i got to ask: Does it really matter? I feel like it doesn't, since:
1. D4V does NOT include an IWAD, so you still need a Doom IWAD to run the .exe.

2. The .exe is modified in way that it won't work without D4V.wad, making it not valuable to anyone pirating the game.

3. It's, again, modified. It could be compared to a source port, since those allow you to play the game (in an infinitely better way than the original game through DOSBox) and if someone really wanted to play Doom on DOS, they can just get Doom from one of those "abandonware" websites for literally free and for far less effort than trying to rip it from D4V.

 

Do you REALLY think Zenimax/Bethesda/whoever would go out of their way to do something against this? That's highly unlikely IMO.

[Noiser]

Exactly what -TDRR- said.
I saw your obsession with this subject before, but it's 100% irrelevant for me.

You could have send me a pm with your question, but don't worry because everything is ok. You need the iwads to play which is what matters for me and it's not exactly the original but a mod akin to doom plus even before the dehack process (not that it matters anyway). I removed the Doom2bak but I will not do anything else because I find this subject extremely petty and out of my interest. Sorry. 

Edited March 1, 2020 by Noiser

[Redneckerz]

5 hours ago, -TDRR- said:

This is the moment where i got to ask: Does it really matter?

In a legal sense it has consequences. The common method is supplying only the .deh file so users can, if they so wish, create a custom executable themselves. Not only does this save space (Though in this day and age, that is less relevant as it was in the 90s). By supplying the patch already merged in the exe, you have to distribute the official DOS executable of Doom2. Even using the shareware exe would be against id Software's rulings. Its why they discouraged Dehacked custom executables, but were okay with supplying the patch only.

 

Creating a custom.exe was a necessity (But correct me if i am wrong) back in the pre-source port days and when Dehacked only created binary patches (up to 2.3). In order to make Doom2 understand the differences, one had to create a copy through Dehacked, which was named by default Doomhack.exe. Ofcourse you could change the name it had to give to this backup executable, but Doomhack existed for this reason back then, plus it kept your original executable safe from modification.

 

In the here and now and with Dehacked now supplying text based .deh patches, they can be loaded in any source port. If you want to retain DOS compatibility, then yes, Doomhack is still useful.

 

Therefore i do not understand why a merged .exe is supplied. This is literally the official Doom2.exe with the D4V.deh applied to it.  D4V could simply distribute the .deh file only and leave an instruction for the user to create his own custom exe (Doomhack) if they want to play this in pure DOS. This is the common standard.

 

This still could be called by the supplied .bat - This would be the same method of execution as back in the day.

 

Quote

I feel like it doesn't, since:
1. D4V does NOT include an IWAD, so you still need a Doom IWAD to run the .exe.

That does not matter - Back in the day users had to supply their Doom IWAD aswell for any Doom.exe to function. Its not the IWAD that's affected -its the EXE.

 

Quote

2. The .exe is modified in way that it won't work without D4V.wad, making it not valuable to anyone pirating the game.

Indeed, because its a Doom2.exe with the D4V.deh applied. It means little to pirate it - but it also means very little to distribute an exe this way since it is more a matter of convenience why the current release does it like this. I totally get that.

 

Quote

3. It's, again, modified. It could be compared to a source port, since those allow you to play the game (in an infinitely better way than the original game through DOSBox)

I find it interesting that you make that comparison, as that's how i view Doomhack aswell: Although it does not actually meddle with the source, it directly played a part in the development of these (along with the Linux Doom source code obviously)

 

Quote

if someone really wanted to play Doom on DOS, they can just get Doom from one of those "abandonware" websites for literally free and for far less effort than trying to rip it from D4V.

True, but this would be a terrible argument to make to defend the custom.exe as it is supplied now. If anything else, it only supports the notion that the current implementation was done for convenience sakes and not have the user be bothered with merging the patch together if they want to play it under DOS - Even though that would be the proper way of doing it.

 

Quote

Do you REALLY think Zenimax/Bethesda/whoever would go out of their way to do something against this? That's highly unlikely IMO.

I agree. I don't think Zenimax/Bethesda would care little about this development. However, i do think that id Software is less pleased with this notion - seeing as they originally forbade modification of the exe's to be shared in the first place. It was thus encouraged to only suppled a .deh patch and have the user compile his own merged copy.

 

If this was uploaded to /idgames, it would be rejected for that reason alone. Its why reuploads of various WADS exist that supply the .deh file only and not the compiled Doomhack.exe: The former is legal, the latter is not.

 

1 hour ago, Noiser said:

Exactly what -TDRR- said.
I saw your obsession with this subject before, but it's 100% irrelevant for me.

I apologize in advance for the presentation of my question, which reads as an accusation. You have my word that this isn't the case. Please do not take this the wrong way, but what you think of it is equally irrelevant - What is leading is id Software's own ruling on the matter. And whilst id Software never actually went after anyone that did supply a Doomhack.exe anyway, does not mean that distributing such an exe is legal.

 

Even Alpha Dog Alliance, of the Strain TC, knew this and had their own clever method for it: It came with a custom installer, which allowed you to generate a modified Doom2.exe - using the users own executable - with the Strain.deh applied to it. The merged exe was called Strnhack.exe and you could perfectly play the game that way.

 

D4V could do perfectly similar: Removing the exe's but providing an option in the installer/bat to generate a custom exe using the Doom2 executable that the user has. The resultant D4VHack.exe (I am just naming it as such) would be perfectly legal, what is supplied is only the .deh patch, not the merged executable.

 

Quote

You need the iwads to play which is what matters for me and it's not exactly the original but a mod akin to doom plus, even before the dehack process (not that it matters anyway).

I would postulate that the Doom Plus hacks are different in nature: They are hex-edited and raise the actual limits of Doom2.exe. Dehacked can only work within Vanilla limits. This is where D4V.deh resides: It significantly alters things in the vanilla executable.

Quote

I removed the Doom2bak but I will not do anything else because I find this subject extremely petty and out of my interest. Sorry. 

See the bolded above. There is nothing petty about it and it pains me that you feel this way. I am not sure why you removed Doom2bak but retained Doom2.exe (Which according to the instruction is a merged executable with the D4V.deh applied).

 

Again, I get why the current implementation is as is. You don't want users to do a few extra steps when a custom executable does the trick for them. Its not a case of being petty, its a case of nuance.

 

If i were petty, i would criticize the fact that the custom exe is called Doom2.exe, when its not the same as the original DOS executable.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Redneckerz

[Noiser]

Quote

I will not do anything else because I find this subject extremely petty and out of my interest.

 

[holaareola]

Hey, just wanted to jump in and say this mod is astounding. Can't believe how much dead fun new gameplay you managed to cram in through dehacked. DEHACKED. Must have taken some devious thinking. The new spritework is top-notch too. Hope to see more maps built with this in mind.

 

As for bundling an .exe. Come on. There are countless Doom wads using assets ripped from other old games. What, are we going to dump thousands of wads from idgames too? I think the illegality is moot and has been for a long time.

[Redneckerz]

52 minutes ago, Noiser said:

 

What you find petty carries a legal consequence. One that admittely has never seen actual action, either by id Soft or by Bethesda, but a consequence none the less. My point was to open a discussion on it, nothing more.

 

Its a shame that you aren't open for said discussion - Whether you would agree with the suggestion or not.

 

33 minutes ago, holaareola said:

As for bundling an .exe. Come on. There are countless Doom wads using assets ripped from other old games.

That's not the same thing as is presented here. Those rips are usually distributed in a .pk3 and (more often than not) uncredited, which is the major reason why people point this out when they find out that certain sprites aren't given proper credit.

 

Quote

I think the illegality is moot and has been for a long time.

Its a moot situation primarily because historically id Soft nor Bethsoft have taken action against this. That does not mean that the DOS Doom2 exe as is not protected by copyright and that thus direct modifications to it which are then supplied by the author aren't legal, because of it. id Soft has never come out to provide a definitive statement, so the entire premise relies on the sheer fact the DOS executables are copyrighted against this sort of thing.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Redneckerz

[Noiser]

No, I'm not open for said discussion, because I have more useful things to do with my time.
Also this is not the place for your discussion. I already gave you my answer, now go create your own thread instead of deranging my own.

[I had a bad day, nevermind]

Edited March 4, 2020 by Noiser

[holaareola]

Man, stuff was being ripped and re-used in Doom long before pk3s came around. I can't count the number of times I've seen Duke, Blood, Quake, Heretic, Hexen, Half-Life etc etc etc content in Doom wads and with the advent of GZDoom -- Q3, Doom3, Unreal.  Even some of the most acclaimed old TCs like Batman Doom and Aliens TC were and probably still are illegal under trademark law.

 

My point being that it's all copyright (or trademark with the TCs) law, right. The idgames policy about exes seems really inconsistent to me with the absolute glut of copyright-breaching content already therein.   I can't argue against you being right - the law is the law and it's fair for you to point that out.  But it seems the law here is one much of the community is happy to break, or willing to look past. As in many other areas of life, tbh.

 

Sorry for the derail Noiser.  About the sprites -- are they all hand drawn, modded from Doom2 or scanned from D16 and sketched over? They're so good. 

 

The archvile phase behaviour is superb... is this just a really rapid sequence of walking frames with different sprites? Can't believe this stuff was achieved without scripting.

[Redneckerz]

26 minutes ago, Noiser said:

No, I'm not open for said discussion, because I have more useful things to do with my time.
Also this is not the place for your discussion. I already gave you my answer, now go create your own thread instead of deranging my own.

There is no need for this hostility.

 

8 minutes ago, holaareola said:

Even some of the most acclaimed old TCs like Batman Doom and Aliens TC were and probably still are illegal under trademark law.

For different reasons but yes.

 

Ultimately its a fringe situation. Id leave it at that.

8 minutes ago, holaareola said:

The idgames policy about exes seems really inconsistent to me with the absolute glut of copyright-breaching content already therein.  

I do not know how the current maintainers view this. If they continue Ty Halderman's policy, such an exe would be rejected when reviewed.

[Noiser]

Redneckerz, I know you are trying to help and I appreciate that. I'm also very tired, without sleeping and when I say I have things to do with my time is because I am indeed very busy... this is not doing any good for me anymore.

This thread was made for D4V and I come here for that reason. There's nothing more I can add in that aspect and I don't want to turn my thread into a mindless flamewar. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just don't think this is the appropriated place for your discussion that is mostly off-topic at this point.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Noiser

[Redneckerz]

18 minutes ago, Noiser said:

Redneckerz, I know you are trying to help and I appreciate that. I'm also very tired, without sleeping and when I say I have things to do with my time is because I am indeed very busy... this is not doing any good for me anymore.

That is fair. Im equally busy aswell. Hope your sleeping issues get resolved one way or another!

18 minutes ago, Noiser said:

This thread was made for D4V and I come here for that reason. There's nothing more I can add in that aspect and I don't want to turn my thread into a mindless flamewar. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just don't think this is the appropriated place for your discussion that is mostly off-topic at this point.

Yeah lets refocus. The discussion has been made.

[Noiser]

Thanks, and sorry for the way how I answered you.
I will go the bed very soon... it's 11:00 am here and I didn't sleep yet T_T

Edited March 1, 2020 by Noiser

[GooCharlie]

i wonder when 2.5.9 will release?

[TheNoob_Gamer]

21 hours ago, GooCharlie said:

i wonder when 2.5.9 will release?

The mod is basically completed now (and the OP is apparently busy) so I doubt we will see any updates soon.

[Noiser]

I'm still working on it, but yes I'm a bit lower on time and I also want to finish my Switcheroom 2 map. I think it will not take too long though.
 

On 3/1/2020 at 10:06 AM, holaareola said:

The archvile phase behaviour is superb... is this just a really rapid sequence of walking frames with different sprites? Can't believe this stuff was achieved without scripting.

Thanks, I'm glad you liked - on Dehacked you can make enemies change the speed during the walking sequence. That combined with a few invisible frames was enough to create that movement (a similar method was used for the Revenant and Cyberdemon as well).

Edited March 13, 2020 by Noiser

[Noiser]

------------------------------
VERSION 2.5.9 RELEASED
------------------------------
DOWNLOAD - 2.5.9 REGULAR

DOWNLOAD - 2.5.9 MS-DOS
To play with custom maps, D4V have to be loaded first (so the map07 bypasser can work).
 

- CHANGELOG v2.5.9

• Imps are a bit more engaging on long-range combat
• Improved a few animations
• Improved the Revenant and Cyber-Mancubus sprites
• Fixed Hell Knights getting too quiet on GZDoom
• Improved the Gauss Cannon sprite
• Fixed some balancing inconscistencies
• H.A.R shots causes more damage
• Gauss Cannon is faster and more responsible
• The sound effect for the explosive flame is louder
• Improved blood sprites and animations
• Cyber Mancubi have an improved behavior and runs a bit faster
• For Boom ports - Removed some questionable transluscency, like the ones on Supercharge\MegaDoll
• For RUDE, the @drfrag port - added a fitting text for the Unholy Massacre difficulty
• ...and some other things I probably forgot already
   

RUDE screenshot

Edited March 11, 2020 by Noiser

[GooCharlie]

is the next update going to be 2.6, or 2.5.9.1 like minecraft?

 

 

 

p.s. i really enjoy this mod. i use it in dosbox.

Edited March 11, 2020 by GooCharlie

[El Franko]

I'm not sure if this is only on Crispy Doom, but I noticed a weird oddity at the monster cast sequence from Doom 2. The cast sequence doesn't seem to have most monster appearances in order, and I noticed that the Mancubus and Revenant had their names switched. Also I think some monsters like Pinky, Hell Knight, Baron of Hell, and Revenant made some Lost Soul sounds.

[Noiser]

Quick update: I realized that reverie map07 still have some softlock issues, sorry about that.
Would ask you to download the files again if you want that fixed.

Also took the oportunity to update the imp XDEATH sequence and fixed the chainsaw offset when raising.

On 3/11/2020 at 2:19 PM, El Franko said:

I'm not sure if this is only on Crispy Doom, but I noticed a weird oddity at the monster cast sequence from Doom 2. The cast sequence doesn't seem to have most monster appearances in order, and I noticed that the Mancubus and Revenant had their names switched. Also I think some monsters like Pinky, Hell Knight, Baron of Hell, and Revenant made some Lost Soul sounds.

Weird, the names should not be changed as I fixed their strings. That only happens with the Mancubus and Revenant or you spotted other ones? But yeah - these are dehacked oddities. Some monsters have their places changed: the Mancubi uses the Revenant AI so they can use their Flamethrower attack, the Cyber-Mancubi have splash damage protection to avoid being hit by their own shots, etc. Sound oddities are expected on that screen as well.
 

On 3/11/2020 at 10:47 AM, GooCharlie said:

is the next update going to be 2.6, or 2.5.9.1 like minecraft?

I'm not sure yet. I'm holding the 2.6 release for something else.

Edited March 13, 2020 by Noiser

[El Franko]

2 minutes ago, Noiser said:

Weird, the names should not be changed as I fixed their strings. Only Mancubus and Revenant have their names changed or you spotted other ones?

When I witnessed that, I only saw the Mancubus and Revenant as being the only ones with their names switched.

[ketmar]

@Noiser do you have plans to include partial hackfix for shotgun pickups i posted earlier? i am not insisting on it, just interested. of course, it doesn't fix everything, but it is small and non-intrusive. (and i can stop manually patching each new release too. ;-)

[Noiser]

23 hours ago, ketmar said:

@Noiser do you have plans to include partial hackfix for shotgun pickups i posted earlier? i am not insisting on it, just interested. of course, it doesn't fix everything, but it is small and non-intrusive. (and i can stop manually patching each new release too. ;-)

Hi @ketmar! Don't worry, I'm glad you remembered me about that. Actually, when I saw your post I didn't understood very well and was afraid to do something wrong. I'm not sure if I get it yet but I would be happy to incorporate the code.

Are you currently using a separate file to patch it or it's a direct change on D4V.wad? I will have to make some tests as the weapon system is very delicate and it also mess with other things like different ammo values. That can be pretty stressful to check and I'm always prone to forget something. I will give a better look on your post nonetheless. Thanks a lot!

Edited March 14, 2020 by Noiser

[YeOldeFellerNoob]

There should be a Meat Hook addon for D4V. I don't know how it would play like, but would still be sweet.

[ketmar]

53 minutes ago, Noiser said:

Are you currently using a separate file to patch it or it's a direct change on D4V.wad?

i changed decorate code directly in the wad, but this is only one file actually. i PMed you that changed file, so you'll be able to test it. it should not break anything, because it only changes the logic used to spawn tossed shotgun (actually, makes it even simplier ;-), but it doesn't touch any ammo amounts or other gameplay features. i'm slightly afraid to touch the other code too, so i did the less intrusive patch i could came with. as i said, for proper fix it should be rewritten, but this is not something i can do, sorry. i can't rewrite it without fully understand it first, and i am quite busy now with rewriting network code in That Sourceport I Spam Each Topic with. ;-)

[Noiser]

19 hours ago, ketmar said:

i changed decorate code directly in the wad, but this is only one file actually. i PMed you that changed file, so you'll be able to test it. it should not break anything, because it only changes the logic used to spawn tossed shotgun (actually, makes it even simplier ;-), but it doesn't touch any ammo amounts or other gameplay features. i'm slightly afraid to touch the other code too, so i did the less intrusive patch i could came with. as i said, for proper fix it should be rewritten, but this is not something i can do, sorry.

Thanks dude, don't worry about that, my code is definitely a weird beast. Instead of doing on a more conventional route (fully separated weapons) I tried to emulate the Dehacked behavior as close as possible (the same entities but with other graphics\sounds and codepointers). I'm happy with the end result though.

Thanks again for your file, I will have a good look on that. Not sure if I will be able to put it for the next release (as I'm preparing other things right now) but it's definitely on my list.
 

Quote

i can't rewrite it without fully understand it first, and i am quite busy now with rewriting network code in That Sourceport I Spam Each Topic with. ;-)

k8vavoom!! (heres the free spam heh)

I wonder how well D4V works on your port, unfortunately I was not able to test it as one of the versions doesn't worked on my pc (that's expected tho, my pc is not very good). I should try it again with the newer versions you have been released.

Edited March 14, 2020 by Noiser

[ketmar]

1 minute ago, Noiser said:

Not sure if I will be able to put it for the next release

ah, its ok, i'm not insisting on it. just wanted to help a little, so if you'll get some ideas from it, it will be great. take your time. ;-)

 

2 minutes ago, Noiser said:

I wonder how well D4V works on your port

i didn't compared it with other ports, but it seems to be working fine -- at least with standard weapons set, i didn't tested alternate set much. it also helped me to find several bugs in dehacked support, so thank you for that too! ;-)