Doom 3 didn't need a USE key

[Foebane72]

No, Doom 3 was FAR more versatile and sophisticated and animated than Doom 2016 concerning its GUI user interfaces, so a USE key was totally simplistic and redundant.

 

Come to think of it, Rage went back to awful-looking still interface screens with a USE key, and Doom 2016 continued the trend.

 

What happened? Why didn't the excellent Doom 3 GUI interfaces become standard in the gaming industry?

 

[Dragonfly]

That GUI was clunky, probably a lot more work to make than it was worth, and killed the game's momentum even more (on top of all the dialogue, the slow swap-from-torch combat loop, etc).

[DefilerPhil47]

DOOM 3's GUI worked for DOOM 3 and was great in DOOM 3 because it was very immersive, but as Dragonfly said, if implemented in DOOM 2016, it would kill momentum.

[Foebane72]

13 hours ago, Dragonfly said:

That GUI was clunky, probably a lot more work to make than it was worth, and killed the game's momentum even more (on top of all the dialogue, the slow swap-from-torch combat loop, etc).

 

At least Doom has had the chance to be a slower-paced, thoughtful, story-driven horror shooter game rather than the fast, mindless action shooter it is normally seen as, and I commend it for that. Also, the GUI interfaces made it feel like you would use a real interface, and you could still be attacked when doing so, so you have to make sure you clean out a room and watch your back, so there's that.

 

[Loud Silence]

Doom Eternal will not need FIRE button. Joke.

[Dragonfly]

6 hours ago, Foebane72 said:

At least Doom has had the chance to be a slower-paced, thoughtful, story-driven horror shooter game rather than the fast, mindless action shooter it is normally seen as, and I commend it for that.

 

I agree it was good for them to try something more 'horror' with the franchise, not disputing that, but I feel the end product feels like a glorified tech demo where gameplay came second to the visual experience / technology showcasing, and the usable interfaces very much contribute to that feeling for me.

[Nine Inch Heels]

To begin with, I don't get why Doom3 fanboying happens in the Doom'16 subforum, especially when it basically comes at the expense of Doom'16.

 

Secondly, the GUI literally turns your "shoot key" into the "use key" the moment you get close to one of those interactive surfaces in the game. In that sense Doom 3 HAD a use key that was active only when certain conditions were met. You still had to push buttons to make stuff happen, and it doesn't matter which button it is in the grand scheme of things. The claim that Doom 3 didn't have a use key is an exercise in semantics at the best of times.

 

Also, these GUI tricks weren't really all that great. The novelty aspect at the time wore off pretty fast, and using the GUIs to input codes for cabinets and such quickly became something I could have done without just fine. From an immersion POV it's nice every once in a while, but being prompted to use these GUIs about every other minute gets old fast. I would have pressed a "use key" gladly, instead of having to click on numbers in a certain sequence time and time again before I was even halfway through the game.

 

Features for feature's sake doesn't make a game great, and Doom 3's feature set does very little to remedy the issues that it has. With poor pacing being one of the worst offenders, a feature that slows the pace down even more is something that is best avoided, and I'm glad id didn't repeat the mistake of wasting resources on GUIs.

[Bauul]

On 10/8/2019 at 9:07 AM, Dragonfly said:

That GUI was clunky, probably a lot more work to make than it was worth, and killed the game's momentum even more

 

I might be in the minority here but I thought the real-time-cursor GUI effect was absolutely amazing and I thought it was a really fun way to aid immersion. Full mouse control on an in-game screen while still in first person and in full movement control? That shit was hot.

 

But they never actually did anything really interesting with it in the main game, which is a shame. I saw custom levels that did far more interesting things.

 

But also, yes, wrong forum.

[GarrettChan]

2 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Also, these GUI tricks weren't really all that great. The novelty aspect at the time wore off pretty fast

 

Me:

2005: Wow, this is so cool, and you can interact with so many things in the game!

2010: I prefer no clicking and no using anything just like Quake.

2015: Damn, give me my use key back. I really hate opening door or pressing switch in a wrong time.

 

DooM 3's problem is that it uses the name of DooM, and people would expect fast pace shooter, but well. If it's called... I don't know, MooD 3, probably the reviews will be better.

[seed]

It didn't need a traditional Use key because it fit the pace and design of the game (just like Quake didn't need one either), but it was probably very tedious to get those interfaces working, and thus extra effort for little payback.

 

Needless to say that this would absolutely not work in a fast paced Doom game where it just kills the pacing, plain and simple.

Edited October 9, 2019 by seed

[Rathori]

Quake didn't have a use key. Doom 3's use key is the left mouse button.

[reflex17]

I remember thinking the lack of use key in Quake was cool at the time, but in the end I think it's bad for gameplay. A simple use key establishes so much player agency over the interactions with the environment. As much as I enjoy those games, in retrospect the player in Quake and Q2 felt more like a jumping blob with a rocket launcher attached to it, you just sorta smoosh into things to activate them.

[-TDRR-]

Yes, those GUI surfaces were a chore to get working. I don't have the manual at hand, but IIRC it said that there are 3.000+ lines of code for the GUI surfaces alone.

 

I also hated how boring it made everything. GUI surfaces are a really cool idea, but they put so many of them that it gets tiring real quick. TBH I think Doom 2016 did it fine.

[Foebane72]

10 hours ago, reflex17 said:

I remember thinking the lack of use key in Quake was cool at the time, but in the end I think it's bad for gameplay. A simple use key establishes so much player agency over the interactions with the environment. As much as I enjoy those games, in retrospect the player in Quake and Q2 felt more like a jumping blob with a rocket launcher attached to it, you just sorta smoosh into things to activate them.

 

It IS simplistic, but it must've been innovative at the time because Unreal used them, too.

 

3 hours ago, -TDRR- said:

Yes, those GUI surfaces were a chore to get working. I don't have the manual at hand, but IIRC it said that there are 3.000+ lines of code for the GUI surfaces alone.

 

I also hated how boring it made everything. GUI surfaces are a really cool idea, but they put so many of them that it gets tiring real quick. TBH I think Doom 2016 did it fine.

 

For me, another appeal of the id Tech 4 GUIs is the versatile animation they used, flowing, complex, smooth, and so good they actually use GUIs for the game menus itself! Aside from the lighting, shadowing and normal mapping of Doom 3 (original, at least) I find myself marvelling at rooms of whole banks of monitors playing these animations (like the main Communications room) and how many of them don't seem to slow down the game's speed at all with the GPU stuff. These animated screens could be attached to objects that could be pushed around and toppled, weapons, and even monsters, like the Bruiser in RoE! Going back to Quake 2, with it's boring, extremely low-res static screens and interfaces is a bit of a shock, to be honest.

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by Foebane72

[Taurus Daggerknight]

Doom 3's screen UI thing was good for Doom 3. It....felt clunky in Quake 4 though, so I'm guessing it would be just as weird in Doom 2016. 

[Archi]

On 10/9/2019 at 8:37 AM, DefilerPhil47 said:

if implemented in DOOM 2016, it would kill momentum.

You can't kill what already was killed with unskippable custscenes and monologues.

 

On 10/9/2019 at 11:02 PM, seed said:

but it was probably very tedious to get those interfaces working, and thus extra effort for little payback.

GUI editor that came in with the doom 3 was pretty easy to work with and had a lot of possibilities. Main menu, PDA and HUD are prime examples of engine's GUI. GUI from the game panels are far more simple though, just a few buttons and a few animations, which definitely can't ruin the pace.

 

People go crazy over some simple and awesome stuff like GUI which only made game more memorable and immersive. Seriously, are you having issues to aim into that big button on a panel and click it once?

[Foebane72]

On 10/16/2019 at 1:55 AM, Archi said:

You can't kill what already was killed with unskippable custscenes and monologues.

 

Yes, I found that very annoying, especially with the long Samuel Hayden speech and all the stuff with VEGA and the monitor screens. At least you could skip them in Doom 3.

 

[incel]

The 1st time I saw this kind of interface was in Die Hard: Nakatomi Plaza, so it wasn't anything special for me. But stil, it's a strong immersion lever.

 

The obvious answer, why it isn't used today: consoles.

[MadGuy]

9 hours ago, incel said:

The obvious answer, why it isn't used today: consoles.

Nope, I think the answer is "Industry Standards" plus it would have taken them quite some time and resources to re-create or update the good ole DOOM 3 GUI

[incel]

On 11/8/2019 at 10:48 PM, MadGuy said:

Nope, I think the answer is "Industry Standards"

 

Oh, come on, navigating pointer with the thumb stick is a bitch.

[MadGuy]

5 minutes ago, incel said:

 

Oh, come on, navigating pointer with the thumb stick is a bitch.

Yet still something manageable. Plus most UI elements are just simple buttons.

P.S.: Don't forget that DOOM 3 X-box, DOOM 3 BFG and DOOM 3 (2019) exist too.

Edited November 9, 2019 by MadGuy

[incel]

1 minute ago, MadGuy said:

Don't forget that DOOM 3 X-box, DOOM 3 BFG and DOOM 3 (2019) exist too.

 

Touche.