C3M6 is WAY too hard

[Tartlman]

C3M6 throws you into a lava pool without a clearly marked exit, a cyberdemon, and a clusterfuck of pinkies, lost souls, imps, etc.

 

Without a single health pickup.

 

I'm playing freedoom, not freeplutonia. Maps really shouldn't be like that IMO.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Tartlman

[galileo31dos01]

This got me curious, it's been a minute since I played freedoom phase 1. From what I remember maps in the third episode seemed undercooked in places. Unless there has been a recent update of the map, let's see each point: 

 

4 hours ago, Tartlman said:

throws you into a lava pool without a clearly marked exit

 

Right, it's a classic panic trap, I also thought for a second it was inescapable, but I touched the bridge two steps in front of me and left. No big deal here.

 

4 hours ago, Tartlman said:

a cyberdemon

 

Well, "a cyberdemon" could mean everything to nothing nowadays, in this particular context I don't see a problem with it, there's ample space to move, beneficial cover to the player as much as it is for the monster (splash damage), not that simple to skip as there's backup waiting outside, it's a decent setup all things considered. On skills 2 and 3 there're four barons instead, much quicker to dispatch.

 

4 hours ago, Tartlman said:

a clusterfuck of pinkies, lost souls, imps, etc, all at the start.

 

I completely failed to see that, there's one imp, couple lost souls, two cacodemons, nothing impedes you to camp in the start room if that's what you want to do. It's not even a tight start, an example of this would be "The Classic Episode" E1M7 on UV, that puts you straight into the heat without overwhelming the player. If you are curious about true clausterfucks, "3 heures d' agonie" map 27 is a case, from there it can only escalate higher like say Italo Doom.

 

4 hours ago, Tartlman said:

Without a single health pickup.

 

This is true to every skill settings, which in a map 3-4 minutes long without hitscanners, obligatory pain sectors, or tight scenarios with potential bad RNG outcomes, yet even grants you a free green armor, it doesn't paint unfair all things considered imo. There's also a secret berserk which you can use to restore your health, though I'd argue that anyone will find it on a first time. 

 

However, by checking lower skills I didn't see any significant changes other than the absence of the cyberdemon. UV is definitely finely tuned to be tight with little margin of error, yet little reasons to fail much if you are cautious, HMP could be what HNTR is imo, and HNTR could concede the player an early soulsphere or scattered stimpacks. The only soulsphere benefits continuous players, which is how I imagine most people play freedoom. 

 

4 hours ago, Tartlman said:

I'm playing freedoom, not freeplutonia

 

You were also playing on skill 4, if you don't want it to kick your ass then there's no shame on trying lower settings. Besides, Plutonia is very kind with health, if we were to compare. 

 

4 hours ago, Tartlman said:

Maps really shouldn't be like that IMO.

 

Again, consider a lower skill than 4, specially for the last episode. The reality is that the vast majority of maps out there have difficulties implemented for a reason, so keep that in mind. Can't expect a walk in the park when you chose a road full of obstacles (:

[GarrettChan]

Poor Plutonia.

[Tartlman]

I will admit that i was playing keyboard only for this map, for a couple reasons, so I definitely wasn't playing at my best. I didn't take a look at it on lower difficulties though, and judging from your description, it doesn't sound as bad as on UV.

 

Also, i misspoke about the clusterfuck at the start - I meant to say that was after the red key switch. Whoops.

[Graf Zahl]

My two (probably irrelevant) cents:

 

There shouldn't be any cyberdemons outside of E2M8, E3M9 and E4.

 

[Mortrixs19]

TBH I don't find C3M6 too hard if you pistol start it.

 

 

C3M2 on the other hand...

[Death Egg]

On 11/24/2019 at 12:49 AM, Graf Zahl said:

My two (probably irrelevant) cents:

 

There shouldn't be any cyberdemons outside of E2M8, E3M9 and E4.

 

Agreed. Phase I should have difficulty on part with the original Doom.

[Mortrixs19]

On 12/21/2019 at 9:17 PM, Death Egg said:

Agreed. Phase I should have difficulty on part with the original Doom.

Except that the original doom isn't that hard. Back in the 90s? Sure, dark lighting caused by old monitors, lack of mouse and there wasn't a WASD key combination yet. If you replay doom with dosbox, original controls and no mouse. the game becomes a bit more difficult. Today you can beat The original 3 episodes in UV if you wanted, let's face that people wasn't really skilled back then and the jump from wolf3d to doom was something.

 

I say that we don't need a super hardcore WAD that tries to simulate the difficulty of a modern megawad, but we can't go for the original difficulty curve since it's just medium-easy.

[luckypunk]

4 hours ago, Mortrixs19 said:

we can't go for the original difficulty curve since it's just medium-easy.

Our biggest potential audience are people who play around with a Linux system and just for fun try this freedoom or prboom-plus thingy. These are not experienced hardcore gamers. To them Doom is just as tough as it was back in 1993.

 

Please keep that in mind when demanding tougher maps.

 

If you absolutely have to increase the difficulty, at least let skills 1&2 at Doom standards.

[doomfighter667112349]

yeah i agree with death egg and graf zahl 

 

Edited July 1, 2020 by doomfighter667112349

[doomfighter667112349]

freedoom need to be difficult like doom 1 and doom 2

Edited July 1, 2020 by doomfighter667112349