The Unity Port Thread - PS/Xbox/Switch/IOS/Android

[Gez]

I guess it's harder to find good Doom II wads that don't meet one or more of those problems:

- uses port features (and yes, DEHACKED support is 100% a port feature) for map effects or custom enemies/weapons

- too many ripped resources to feasibly replace

- too many authors to feasibly contact them all

 

 

[Faceman2000]

On top of what Gez said, I think it also might be because Doom II already has Final Doom (I mean, effectively), NRftL, and the Master Levels as addons, so they’re trying to balance the OG Doom expansions with that.

[Edward850]

5 minutes ago, Faceman2000 said:

On top of what Gez said, I think it also might be because Doom II already has Final Doom (I mean, effectively), NRftL, and the Master Levels as addons, so they’re trying to balance the OG Doom expansions with that.

No, it is 100% what Gez said. They don't care if it's Doom 1 or 2, or heck even if it was Final Doom.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Edward850

[Faceman2000]

8 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

No, it is 100% what Gez said. They don't care if it's Doom 1 or 2, or heck even if it was Final Doom.

Oh, nevermind then haha. 😂

 

That makes a lot of sense. I went through the Cacowards to see which ones could possibly become official and about the only one was Reverie, and even it would need some D64 assets replaced if it were to be a viable option.

[dustarma]

Master Levels isn't out on all consoles though, it's definitely not out on Switch. Nevermind I'm blind and I didn't see that it was a different chapter instead of an add-on.

Edited May 14, 2020 by dustarma

[Chip]

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Gez said:

I guess it's harder to find good Doom II wads

why do people make WADs with so many assets not in the original DOOM games? Like, why not just make a WAD with the object provided, instead of just making your own (although creativity is important, and I'm not saying you shouldn't, but I'm asking why everyone does so)?

[Edward850]

Because they can. 

[Chip]

8 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

Because they can. 

touché

[mrthejoshmon]

 

1 hour ago, LiT_gam3r said:

Stuff

Uhhhh, disregarding how ignorant or honestly innocently naive that came across, a couple legitimate answers would be

 

- Using the same stuff for like over 20 years gets stale

 

- Wad/mod authors want a unique look to their works

 

- Some talented people want to show off their talent at making said resources

 

- Some people use texture packs to help them be more creatively free with their designs and not be limited by default assets...

 

And many more legitimate reasons.

 

Why paint in shades of brown when you can use a richer palette.

Edited May 15, 2020 by mrthejoshmon

[Chip]

1 hour ago, mrthejoshmon said:

Uhhhh, disregarding how ignorant or honestly innocently naive that came across, a couple legitimate answers would be
Why paint in shades of brown when you can use a richer palette.

I wasn't trying saying that people shouldn't do that stuff. I'm also not trying to come across as rude in any way. 

I was just saying that I don't see any WADs out there that do use the original assets, they add new things, which I like, I'm just saying that people don't use the palette given to them, so that means that their WADs won't be added to the console ports, and I know there are hundreds of levels on DOOM console ports, and it would be nice to see hundreds of more. Yes, I could have worded that differently, but I haven't played or made any WADs online (because I don't have a PC or gaming laptop, I'm a PS4 gamer) I've only watched videos of people playing them. sorry if I offended anyone.

Also, I like how you quoted me with Stuff, it is pretty funny. 

[Edward850]

44 minutes ago, LiT_gam3r said:

I wasn't trying saying that people shouldn't do that stuff. I'm also not trying to come across as rude in any way. 

I was just saying that I don't see any WADs out there that do use the original assets, they add new things, which I like, I'm just saying that people don't use the palette given to them, so that means that their WADs won't be added to the console ports

You have both the wrong order of events and the wrong problem. The console ports having modding support curated by Id is extremely new in the timeline of Doom modding, ownership rules never needed to be properly established until now, so there has never been a problem for 25+ years until right now. It also has nothing to do with the palette, someone wants to change the palette the engine can handle that fine, and changing/adding textures had very little to do with palette restrictions anyway, the only issue is who owns the assets and if Id can get permission to redistribute them.

 

(Also you have some sort of third party writing assistant that's embedding HTML into your post that's making it extremely annoying to quote your posts, if not outright impossible on mobile.)

Edited May 15, 2020 by Edward850

[Revenant100]

I've completed my analysis of the Bethesda-morphications done to Deathless, comparing it to the original idgames upload, and these are my findings:
 

There were changes to the TITLEPIC, the intermission screens, and the E1 and E3 skies (originals on the left, replacements on the right):

Some of the recolored default Doom patches were redone from scratch presumably to mitigate the dependency on cc4-tex and a few other non-licensed contributors. The following highlights the few noticeably different patches:

The original Deathless PWAD includes DeHackEd and Decorate lumps that make the Lost Soul weaker and the Spider Mastermind faster and stronger, also halving its pain chance and decreasing its width (88 vs 128). Without these lumps, the Lost Soul and Spider Mastermind remain vanilla in the Bethesda version.

 

Several of the maps in the Bethesda version received minor touch ups and improvements, mainly the additions or adjustments of sectors and sometimes thing placements. No band logos were harmed this time around, however.

The original PWAD includes custom graphic replacements for the episode and skill names, but since the Bethesda port uses its own combined level and difficulty selection menu for add-ons, these episode graphic lumps and new skill names go unseen.

 

And finally, the demos were re-recorded in the Bethesda version, as would be expected with the slightly modified maps.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Revenant100

[ZeroTheEro]

that cybie face patch is freaky tbh

[VGA]

8 hours ago, Gez said:

Why do they say "over 25 levels" when it has 36? Sure, 36 is over 25, so it's technically correct (the best kind of correct, I know), but they're underselling it.

They should have said "over 35 levels!!!"

[Edward850]

"Under 69 levels!"

[ZeroTheEro]

1 hour ago, Edward850 said:

"Under 69 levels!"

Nice.

[Vic Vos]

5 hours ago, ZeroTheEro said:

that cybie face patch is freaky tbh

You know, I've only now noticed that Cyberdemon's eyes are on the sides. For the longest time I've thought this was its face (red highlight):

[Gez]

Not the first time people confused nostrils with eyes. After all, the legends of the cyclops were probably inspired by dwarf elephant skulls.

[Chip]

20 hours ago, Edward850 said:

You have both the wrong order of events and the wrong problem. The console ports having modding support curated by Id is extremely new in the timeline of Doom modding, ownership rules never needed to be properly established until now, so there has never been a problem for 25+ years until right now. It also has nothing to do with the palette, someone wants to change the palette the engine can handle that fine, and changing/adding textures had very little to do with palette restrictions anyway, the only issue is who owns the assets and if Id can get permission to redistribute them.

 

(Also you have some sort of third party writing assistant that's embedding HTML into your post that's making it extremely annoying to quote your posts, if not outright impossible on mobile.)

can they add new demons and new weapons? (russian overkill!!!!)

 

for the last part, I think it's Grammarly. I turned it off now. :)

Edited May 15, 2020 by LiT_gam3r

[Lila Feuer]

I saw the nostrils Cybie face as a kid too, honestly makes it way more disturbing.

[ZeroTheEro]

9 hours ago, LiT_gam3r said:

can they add new demons and new weapons? (russian overkill!!!!)

 

no, especially if they are dehacked stuff.

[Edward850]

9 hours ago, LiT_gam3r said:

can they add new demons and new weapons? (russian overkill!!!!)

Russian Overkill is ZDoom, not classic Doom, so that doesn't even apply. The most you can do with the original engine is dehacked, but due to how that works support is not automatic and needs to be manually implemented. It also doesn't so much as create new things as it does just change what's already there.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Edward850

[printz]

On 5/15/2020 at 6:39 AM, Revenant100 said:

There were changes to the TITLEPIC, the intermission screens, and the E1 and E3 skies (originals on the left, replacements on the right):

Sorry, but the replacements are definite loss of quality and border on defacing. It's unsurprising, given that it's the same company that came with the BFG edition crap or the stupid renditions of the classic maps from Doom 4.

 

Also I don't understand what's the big deal about asking for permission to redistribute. Isn't there a clause in any text file that says "you MAY distribute"?

[Edward850]

21 minutes ago, printz said:

Sorry, but the replacements are definite loss of quality and border on defacing.

Uhh... Jimmy isn't allowed to change his own work? What? The only thing anything borders is this complaint on the absolutely ridiculous.

21 minutes ago, printz said:

Also I don't understand what's the big deal about asking for permission to redistribute. Isn't there a clause in any text file that says "you MAY distribute"?

It's not legally good enough for the circumstances and as such they actively seek expressed permission from the original authors. For every asset that they can't, it needs to be replaced.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Edward850

[Deimos]

I was waiting for Deathless to hit the port for my first playthrough but i guess i'll do that on GZ. Props to them for adding it to the port tho.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Deimos

[Lila Feuer]

3 hours ago, printz said:

Sorry, but the replacements are definite loss of quality and border on defacing.

Considering it was author-specific like the changes and remedies made to No End in Sight I'd say it's still pretty damn cool we can actually play these mapsets on modern consoles. It's not like the PC versions are going anywhere.

[printz]

I was assuming that it was Bethesda who changed the textures for the worse (replacing a cyberdemon face with two regular MARBFACE repeats, SERIOUSLY? -- but it's fine if it's the author himself who did it, can't judge him) to avoid copyright issues, so my bad.

[Lila Feuer]

@printz Yeah no Bethesda doesn't have time to muck around with user made content for a 26 year old Doom game, just one that came out two months ago.

[Jimmy]

2 hours ago, printz said:

I was assuming that it was Bethesda who changed the textures for the worse (replacing a cyberdemon face with two regular MARBFACE repeats, SERIOUSLY? -- but it's fine if it's the author himself who did it, can't judge him) to avoid copyright issues, so my bad.

 

The latter is indeed what happened. The INTERPIC that Fuzzball made for E4 was recolored to replace the E1-E3 interpics which were stitched together by me from innumerable sources and therefore absolute mires of potential copyright infringement. Other edits I made include the SP_HOT hanging dudes, the skies for E1 and E3, and they nearly included the slimy ASHWALL edits and the big spider/cyber doors in E1M9 that were done by Vader, pulled from his Rebirth megawad, because for a while it was hard to reach him but I deemed them an integral part of the map(s).

I do have the habit of grabbing cool-looking resources from the texture threads on Doomworld and ZDoom and including them in minor instances because I think they fit in those one or two use cases, such as the MARBCYBR textures you see in E2M8, which were done by ItsNatureToDie. As cool as they are, those only wound up being used in a single map and I didn't deem them a necessity. What that habit of mine ends up doing is creating a longer list of contributors to a project that isn't particularly large-scale to begin with - more people need to be reached out to and are required to sign legal documents in order to make the whole project actually go ahead on schedule.

 

To minimise the risk of the entire thing being stalled due to people being inactive or possibly unreachable, I stripped out the non-essential resources and replaced them with my own edits. I realise it might have been presumptuous on my part to only go ahead with the resources I knew I was able to use, but I felt I'd rather avoid those wrangles altogether. In the end, only three or four people were part of the team required to sign Bethesda's papers, which felt much more appropriate for a project on Deathless's scale.

 

[sponge]

We can't release anyone's work without a signed license agreement, which is typically why these changes are made. I don't make any changes to the releases myself, they are all made by the authors with their approval. The idea that id would officially release some of these WADs on consoles is obviously something people never had in mind creating levels originally (hell it wasn't even something I thought would happen as recent as last August) so most releases are going to have some minor changes due to textures sourced from various places without permission. (I don't have any problems with this mind you, I'm a big proponent of remix culture and reusing/modifying stuff from different sources, and absolutely is a benefit for the community and the works as a whole.)

 

The "you may use this" stuff in READMEs is arguably not a valid license, and there'd be nothing stopping that person from revoking it if they found it was being used in a way they don't like, which is why we don't just scrape idgames and upload stuff from there. It'd be cool if more stuff was released under Creative Commons as that would make that permission more explicit and CC is something that was built within legal frameworks to specifically grant those rights. (I have no idea if that would make things easier for us to release stuff, but I think it's a good thing in general)

 

We sometimes have to make changes to WADs for technical reasons, but Deathless didn't have any of those.

Edited May 16, 2020 by sponge