Noclip: "Designing DOOM Eternal's New & Classic Demons"

[Eurisko]

Nice vid, very cool. Though I did stop at the new demons, I want to save those for when I play the game.

[Super Mighty G]

23 minutes ago, Antroid said:

Well then it's a good thing not every mapset is like Sunlust then, eh :) (and neither are the original games). Also, from what little I played of Sunlust, it was pretty different from 2016 in those regards. Just because there are bigger fights in some places and only small incidental enemies between those places doesn't make it similar at all. THAT is a darn simplification if I've ever seen one.

19 minutes ago, Gez said:

There should be a very blatant difference that should be readily apparent very soon in both videos. And I don't mean the graphics.

Fine I concede this argument.

 

I'm tired defending Doom Eternal anyway. If you're someone that can't find enjoyment in it then so be it. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Super Mighty G

[Antroid]

4 minutes ago, Super Mighty G said:

I'm tired defending Doom Eternal anyway. If you're someone that can't find enjoyment in it then so be it.

 

I mean, I love Doom 2016 for what it is and I'm very hopeful for Eternal anyway. But that's mostly because I've accepted the ways in which they are different from the originals. If they weren't different, I wouldn't have had to do that and would've probably liked them even better, but you can't have everything you want, right? I have DUSK and Amid Evil and Ion Maiden to for them non-arena levels, anyway.

[BBQgiraffe]

only thing I don´t like about the monster designs is that the arachnotrons ribs are inside it´s brain, like imagine if your heart and lungs were outside the ribcage, you would die from a punch in the chest

[NeoWorm]

Difference between DooM 2016 and DooM Eternal seems more like difference between Borderlands  and Borderlands 2 than DooM 1 and DooM 2. They took the same formula and made it more extreme, exagerating some aspects to point of making them unbearable. If you likedBorderlands because of gunplay and how you could overcome obstacles with your skill instead of your grind, you were screwed in 2, because the game was "ballanced" around loot drops and grinding and player skill was almost worthless. For someone who played B1 in certain way, B2 was just better in every aspect. Others just got more and more frustrated to the point the game ceased to be any fun at all. They shifted the gameplay mechanics in subtle way but with very large consequences. And it streamlined the game to just one single playstyle instead of being diverse.

 

Eternal ramped up the combat and movement to 11 and got rid of almost everything else. It almost looks like playing Warframe. And Warframe have a lot of problems with enemy variety and with combat being quite monotone. And I see the same thing in Eternal. It's still fun as hell, great relaxation for an evening. But not all games can be like that. DooM 2016 was variable, had enviromental storytelling, some open levels, pre placed enemies that you could skip if you could dodge them and run through. Eternal so far have nothing like that. It have very strict hallway-arena-jumping puzzle-arena flow to the point of having arena counter on UI! It doesn't even have crouch!

 

It will probabky be fun, but nothing you would want to replay, because any subsequent walkthough will be completely the same...

Edited January 28, 2020 by NeoWorm

[warman2012]

On 1/26/2020 at 12:46 PM, Kapanyo said:

  I didn't hear anything about its original line-of-sight based attack, which makes me a little concerned because that was one of the most unique, defining and fun aspects of the original one IMO. Though if it's not returning, I can again understand.

 

I hope they reworked that attack. Trust me, if they didn't, a whole lot of ppl are gonna be screaming bloody murder TO get rid of it.

[Yourfacedotcom]

90+ metacritic incoming. Can't wait for March 20, 2020. Pure gaming bliss.

[Super Mighty G]

1 hour ago, NeoWorm said:

DooM 2016 was variable, had enviromental storytelling, some open levels, pre placed enemies that you could skip if you could dodge them and run through. Eternal so far have nothing like that.

Like, I know I said I was done defending Eternal, but it's very difficult when you're getting angry about factually wrong things. 

[NeoWorm]

9 minutes ago, Super Mighty G said:

Like, I know I said I was done defending Eternal, but it's very difficult when you're getting angry about factually wrong things. 

Not angry, just dissapointed. And... I can't help you that you don't see what I see. And I am unfortunately not alone seeing it.

[Super Mighty G]

You speak for others now? Am I just crazy? Are there not pre-placed enemies and environmental story telling in the video I posted? 

[Urdak5891]

Foundry was the only open level in 16 lol. De seems identical to 16 in most aspects i dont see the issue

[NeoWorm]

1 hour ago, Super Mighty G said:

You speak for others now? Am I just crazy? Are there not pre-placed enemies and environmental story telling in the video I posted? 

No, cutscenes are not enviromental storytelling and the 3 winged imps were the only pre-placed token monster in the whole video. The game is arenafest from what they showed so far.

[whatup876]

On 1/27/2020 at 10:27 PM, Taurus Daggerknight said:

First off, awesome link. Thanks for the clip!

 

Second, to everyone poking holes in the "first female demon" statement, keep in mind, he said "our first female demon", not "The first female demon ever in  Doom". Fairly sure he just means for the current iD team. Though yes, it is a bit odd that Summoner is being thought of as he, despite its rather feminine shape and movements. Could have fooled me at any rate... 

 

End of the day though, it hardly matters. The fact that the demon on the other end of my shotgun is a he or a she makes no difference to the fact that it wants me dead, much as I want it sent hurtling back to the hell hole it crawled out of. 

 

@whatup876 Yeah, succubi would really not work here. It's bad enough that every RPG that uses them just reduces them to "melee mob in sexy bikini", rather than actual temptress's or corrupter. It would be down right stupid to see that in a Doom game, in which the monsters have always been designed to be objects of sheer hostility and malice, not "sexy" or "cool" in any way besides "neat...lets kill it!". 

 

Actually, i don't even think Succubi were always attactive looking.

I think the original concept is that they trick foolish humans into looking like something they're not, probably through dreams?

One could argue Doomguy would resist such thing and that is one of the reasons why they wouldn't work as ingame enemies.

There's no gameplay potential, maybe some "lore" like some UAC e-mail implying their existence.

 

Speaking of the combat of the new games and enemy differences, the zombie soldiers also no longer carry the same weapons as the player (probably because of hitscan being rare and the chainsaw ammo drops) but it'd love to see them having access to weapon mods. (Plutonia but chaingunners have chaingun turrets and shields)

I guess the Marauder technically filts that role with the SSG, maybe.

[Taurus Daggerknight]

5 minutes ago, whatup876 said:

 

I guess the Marauder technically filts that role with the SSG, maybe.

 

 

That's kind of my guess too. Going by what all they've said about him, I almost wonder if he isn't going to end up being like fighting a bot in Deathmatch or something; a foe with all the player's movement skills, and perhaps some of their weapons. Main boss= Xaero style? If that is the case, then we might actually get some real deathmatch in Battle Mode after all. 

 

...hey, a man can dream, right? 

[whatup876]

He could have potential on being the Vergil to Doomguy's Dante.

[jazzmaster9]

5 hours ago, NeoWorm said:

DooM 2016 was variable, had enviromental storytelling, some open levels, pre placed enemies that you could skip if you could dodge them and run through. Eternal so far have nothing like that. 

Did regular people just randomly get Advance Copies or something to jump to conclusions about the overall game?

 

Because most of the gameplay available is like 20-30 minutes of a much bigger game.

 

I guess the Cyberdemon is the only enemy in Doom 2016 based on the initial trailer, boring game if thats the case.

Edited January 29, 2020 by jazzmaster9

[Antroid]

2 hours ago, whatup876 said:

I think the original concept is that they trick foolish humans into looking like something they're not, probably through dreams?

One could argue Doomguy would resist such thing and that is one of the reasons why they wouldn't work as ingame enemies.

They could be like mimics and pretend to be weapons or something. Like, you pick up a new awesome weapon, but every time you shoot it Doomguy randomly does the whole "just found this gun for the first time" animation of admiring it and caressing it fondly. Resulting in getting shot by everyone around him.

[doomsucksass]

On 1/26/2020 at 8:31 PM, Gez said:

 

Really, the whiplash is just the snake imp.

 

And the marauder is a Hell guard, obviously.

 

You know, i always felt they took inspiration from custom WADs/etc with Doom Eternal, maybe they meant to allude to Eternal Doom with the title?

[NeoWorm]

6 hours ago, jazzmaster9 said:

Did regular people just randomly get Advance Copies or something to jump to conclusions about the overall game?

 

Because most of the gameplay available is like 20-30 minutes of a much bigger game.

 

I guess the Cyberdemon is the only enemy in Doom 2016 based on the initial trailer, boring game if thats the case.

That argument is s**t and you should know it. I told that "so far from what they showed" MULTIPLE TIMES. Read please. And if 30+minutes preview is not indicative of overall game, it's bad preview, if it is than the game is arena shooter. Pick what you prefer to believe. I fear it's the later.

[Doom64hunter]

Community FURIOUS that sequel to game is similar to its predecessor, more news at 11.

[jazzmaster9]

35 minutes ago, NeoWorm said:

And if 30+minutes preview is not indicative of overall game, it's bad preview, if it is than the game is arena shooter. Pick what you prefer to believe. I fear it's the later.

Those thirty minutes are just that, thirty minutes of a game that last hours, so yeah.

[Urdak5891]

Please haters concentrate your argent energy on something more productive in your life. It's obvious this game is not for you (newsflash: it's hard, nevermind, actually impossible, for all people on earth to be in tune with the same likes and dislikes). And the game is very close to release now so any changes made from your 'feedback' will be minimal.

[NeoWorm]

53 minutes ago, Urdak5891 said:

Please haters concentrate your argent energy on something more productive in your life. It's obvious this game is not for you (newsflash: it's hard, nevermind, actually impossible, for all people on earth to be in tune with the same likes and dislikes). And the game is very close to release now so any changes made from your 'feedback' will be minimal.

I know you mean me, but this also applies on others that try so hard to prove all my opinions as completely false. It's not about feedback, it's about talking about the game. ID picked direction and the direction is not for me, I get it. It doesn't mean I can't state that it's utterly disappointing for me without somebody marking me as "hater".

[Urdak5891]

2 hours ago, NeoWorm said:

I know you mean me, but this also applies on others that try so hard to prove all my opinions as completely false. It's not about feedback, it's about talking about the game. ID picked direction and the direction is not for me, I get it. It doesn't mean I can't state that it's utterly disappointing for me without somebody marking me as "hater".

 

But I don't understand, what's the point? Let's take the other extreme of the spectrum, I stay making posts of how awesome eternal is? Whats the point? It's really just spam. The game's direction is the same as it has been since d2016 albeit expanded upon a lot and with a few changes but the core is the same and it's not going to change now. We already have too many negative threads, if anything just make a mega thread and you can all post in it. But the posts lately have been pathetic, muh no pistol, muh lightsabre, muh game is done being serious. These are not 'I am disappointed' posts, these are 'fuck id and let me stir some shit for no reason other than to vent my frustration' posts. Or if anything, that's how you guys come across. And I am not sure what you want for your disappointment, print a tshirt saying that? A pity party or a medal? You know adult life is full of disappointments, there's only few moments outside of the repetitive work, eat, shit, fuck, sleep routine that are really ecstatic, for me that is March 20 :)

Edited January 29, 2020 by Urdak5891

[Super Mighty G]

12 hours ago, NeoWorm said:

And if 30+minutes preview is not indicative of overall game, it's bad preview

Welcome to 90% of all game previews. 

 

Also I didn't say this earlier, but your assertion there are no pre-placed monsters is wrong. An opinion is not an opinion if it is objectively wrong. 

[NeoWorm]

49 minutes ago, Super Mighty G said:

Welcome to 90% of all game previews. 

 

Also I didn't say this earlier, but your assertion there are no pre-placed monsters is wrong. An opinion is not an opinion if it is objectively wrong. 

You are hopeless. Sad.

[Urdak5891]

8 minutes ago, NeoWorm said:

You are hopeless. Sad.

 

Serious question, why does having preplaced monsters in very small parts that might not have them, or not enough (definition of enough being a ymmv item) make a difference to you?

[Szuran]

On the one hand, these new versions look nice (I like the former human), but on the other, they're overdone. When he was talking about Pain Elementals, that they now have dozens of teeth--yeah, I see that. They look like blobs of meat, like something from The Thing. My favourite monster from 2016 is Revenant, he's just great - because he's SIMPLE. I know what I'm seeing. I've never got a chance to take a good look at a pinky or an imp, with all their details.

 

I'm old. Games feel so overdesigned to me these days.

[whatup876]

17 hours ago, doomsucksass said:

You know, i always felt they took inspiration from custom WADs/etc with Doom Eternal, maybe they meant to allude to Eternal Doom with the title?

 

I thought of that with the Fire Baron and Gladiator but at the same time they are still somewhat different enough so it could be seen as a coincidence and the Fire Baron being based off the reboot Baron justifies the "shell/chitin" armor skin thing art style because he's like a living volcano. (and he has fire blades too)

And being someone who made a post with those enemy suggestions, i think taking some notes from the fanbase isn't that bad if it can have some good impact, be executed well and/or serve a purpose.

 

The games themselves are inspired by Doom's pop culture and memes and they even added someone's popular fanart of Daisy, along with some fanservice.

And knowing how randomizer mods like Complex Doom are popular with some fans, it'd be some form of fanservice to introduce a variety of enemies, most of which even carry their own mechanics and abilities.

 

The site Slayer's Club even sort of has this theme of the fanbase, even if it doesn't focus that much on the modding/wad side of things but it's not needed.

So i kinda hope i correctly "predicted" future enemies.

 

I guess what matters is a bit of creatibity and subtlety, at least in some enemy designs.

[HeyItsDuke]

On 1/26/2020 at 12:32 PM, Hunting4r2d2 said:

I'm a little disappointed that it seems the Arch-vile will only be able to summon demons rather than resurrect them, but I love how they essentially made the Doom Hunter have multiple phases.

I like to think of it as the Archvile resurrecting the Demons in new bodies.

Edited January 30, 2020 by V0idH0und