1995 called. They want their Doom levels back.

[tamara mochaccina]

Honestly, as someone who's been kinda busy in the quarantine with her own personal life stuff, seeing this thread only every once in a while makes it so much more apparent how much @Zylinderkatze is improving upon it

[Zylinderkatze]

Glad to see you @tam :3 

 

And thanks for the appreciation- it fuels me! That goes for everyone, obviously- but especially those who can appreciate the effort I'm putting into important tasks like putting Forky back in, wearing the finest new clothes!

 

 _L_.|     ~{vroom! ^^)

c##d__ 

[tamara mochaccina]

I can't believe you made a little forklift emoticon I LOVE IT

[Zylinderkatze]

Speaking of improving..

^{Still only in-editor and I forgot to toggle "things" on ^^;}

 

No, this isn't the only thing I did.. I also finished the stuff leading up to that control room up there.

And part of the maintenance passage that can be opened from there.. and will then lead from this secret area to the even more secret areas.

 

Secretception.

[tamara mochaccina]

1 minute ago, Zylinderkatze said:

And part of the maintenance passage that can be opened from there.. and will then lead from this secret area to the even more secret areas.

Oh, so like a Quake secret. I dig it!

 

Also I love how you used the step textures, very creative

[ketmar]

i REALLY want to ride that thing!

[Zylinderkatze]

"Last update before sleep"

 

I quickly connected the maintenance passage to the point where it is intended to lead, just so I'll have a jump-off point for tomorrow:

 

^{Careful with those barrels!}

 

All those unaligned textures.. *shivers*

[Zylinderkatze]

On 5/7/2020 at 12:29 AM, tam said:

Also I love how you used the step textures, very creative

 

 

Edit: With which I meant to say: Thank you ^^

Edited May 8, 2020 by Zylinderkatze

[Zylinderkatze]

I was going to write a limerick about fixing render issues in Vanilla..

..but then I realized that that's just too weird, even for me.

 

Instead!

Instead why don't you check out this image of the last (few?) remaining issues:

^{(careful, this is large)}

• The old passage (see "old") which I had mentioned in my last post is now gone- or rather, was turned into a room with some ammunition and whatnot.
• Instead there's a new passage (see "new!"), which right now is only a reminder for myself, though. This is still requiring some fleshing out.
• The passage through the mountain / cliffs (on the right) is now laid out and connects to the final area..
•  ..which still has just about 0 detail because it's from 199X ._. this will be redeemed with a healthy level of details.
• Everything right of the "to E1M3" arrow (abridged) is done already.

Knowing me, finalizing that last part (the brown potato on the right of that image, basically) will still take me several hours, though, spread out over a few days.

 

Also, this level is now already > 1MB. What have I done! D:

[ketmar]

54 minutes ago, Zylinderkatze said:

What have I done! D:

something we all want to play, i guess. ;-)

[Senor500]

^ That! I'm excited!

[Zylinderkatze]

Progress time!

^{(not as big as last time but also just a subsection of that post)}

 

Okay.. so. Here it goes:

• The area in the rectangle is done. Detailing and all. I got a loop with pleasant pacing going but I can't really put it into words. You'll just have to see it for yourself! (if you want the berserk kit)
• Yesterday's news are already.. well.. old news by now: the path marked as "new!" in the last picture is gone and now more streamlined (and prettier :3) - I call it.. "new new".
• In the process I also achieved some more "structural continuity" because you keep running into those implied "encased tracks" on your way to the secret² area
• You can now finish the level because all loose ends are connected and reachable.
• However, the "potato" from the last post (not pictured in this one) is still.. a potato.

I got to the point, I consciously realized, where this level is again much too intricate (read: "long") but a good 50% of it is optional. Basically, all I built / finalized today (as described in the points above) doesn't have to be entered at all. All that's missing now is the potato.

 

I'll stop here for today. Before I never stop ^^

 

Last screenshot for today:

^{Now why would there be shotgun shells if you can't get.. ohhh..!}

Edited May 11, 2020 by Zylinderkatze

[ketmar]

5 hours ago, Zylinderkatze said:

I got to the point, I consciously realized, where this level is again much too intricate (read: "long") but a good 50% of it is optional.

so we'll get both Ultimate Doom map, and exploration map? two for the price of one? sign me in! ;-)

[Zylinderkatze]

4 hours ago, ketmar said:

so we'll get both Ultimate Doom map, and exploration map? two for the price of one? sign me in! ;-)

That seems to be a recurring theme with me, yes xD 

 

Even more so now that I have all this newfound inspiration.. and the tools that allow me to realize that inspiration more immediately. 

 

That sounded self-glorifying.. what I mean is that I am rather pleased with how much fun editing is for me and how few hurdles there are to see and test the results.

I'm tempted to scribble some "direct route" and "scenic route" lines over the map but I'm not at my "doom" PC right now ^^; maybe later today.

[Zylinderkatze]

As a sidenote: A short bit about my problems with thing placement.

I feel like I could get better. It's usually mainly "ammo, health and goodies" but sometimes also guns and monsters.

 

Things usually go in one of the following ways (ascending in rarity as you get further down the list):

1. I have a structure / building in my mind, build it without any things in it and it goes empty for a while until I iterate over it and "feel it out" in combination with their surrpounding.
2. I add a general "type" of structure (like a storage area, tunnels, outside passage) to go with existing surroundings, to connect areas ..and add some generic things like ammo as I go, knowing roughly how much you'll need to make it through that area, then come back to rebalance as needed.
3. I have a particular "presentation" of an item or enemy in mind. Like a Soul Sphere on a pedestal, a guarded weapon or the way a certain enemy enters "the stage". Basically "1. but with flavor"
4. There's a whole choreography of a multitude of ingredients laid out in my head beforehand. Basically a combination of (1,) 2 and 3.

One "problem" is, that I don't really like putting the same "extra weapon" (as in, anything above a shotgun) in a level twice. If you find a chaingun, you found the chaingun. I am more lenient when it comes to stuff like Soul Spheres, Armor or even Berserk Kits, though.. but it does mean that- as the level grows- my options shrink.

 

Also, I think you can sometimes tell when I built a room first and then add things later, instead of building a room for those things, specifically. But due to the nature of where a section came from (1, 2 or 3), it can't all be setpieces or showcases, I suppose.

 

I guess what I'm saying is.. my levels are too big.

 

But I'm curious, are you conscious about how, where and why you place things- or is it (or has it become) more instinctive? Do you feel like you have a set pattern you fall back on? Do you worry that you might get repete(tetete)tive?

Edited May 11, 2020 by Zylinderkatze

[ketmar]

i never ever made a "real" map yet, so i prolly shouldn't answer, but... i think that if i ever get into mapping, i'll be using the idea of "each thing is The Thing", but slightly different. like, there are several rooms with rocket lanuchers, but when you going to take one of them, others will be hidden by raising a pillar, or closing a wall, or something alike. this way you can find RL only once, but in several different places. not sure if people will like it, but from my PoV it will add some replayability to the map, because you can try different strategies (or even find a sudden RL where you didn't expected it to be).

 

p.s.: of course, you are limited by vanilla actions, so you cannot script it so other prizes will be replaced by something else when you take The Thing. but this is something i am thinking about too.

Edited May 11, 2020 by ketmar

[Zylinderkatze]

Gah. I just lost my whole response to your post @ketmar. I was too confident on having the control-button held down when I clicked on a link to jump to a different page in this thread. Instead it opened in this tab and the editor "forgot" what I was writing ._.

 

I'll try to recall:

2 hours ago, ketmar said:

"each thing is The Thing"

I love this concept.

 

It could also become a "choose your loadout" approach where there's "X" ways to leave a starting point, each with its own weapon pickup.. and the subsequent level adjust accordingly, to become more "rocket launcher friendly" or provide more "chaingun fodder" (of course the monsters that would be made obsolete would have to get killed off too, for a 100% rating). One of the options might even be a meager ammo clip, for a "pistol run" (for the masochistic purists ^^).

 

My E1M6 had also a slightly similar idea. The level structure changes as you proceed through it a few times. You are basically circling back through it but a previously narrow hallway would later be banked by lava pools. Stuff like that. The basic idea was alright but aside from that, the level sucked xD Though with the inspiration through your post, I can already see some ideas forming on how to make it fun.

 

The "choose your loadout" idea is probably more of a thing for a standalone map (or maybe a mapping challenge? hm? hm?) but I think your post has pushed a few (standard Vanilla doom action) buttons that may lead to ultimate doom level goodness :)

 

2 hours ago, ketmar said:

of course, you are limited by vanilla actions

That is true. No scripting beyond standard Vanilla actions or combinations thereof. However I've found that I can achieve most things I want within those limits and oftentimes they feed my creativity rather than dampen it.

 

When I participated in a Boom speedmapping challenge a few weeks ago, I did use some custom actions for convenience but the things I was the proudest of (like a combination of a slow and a fast lift to get to a switch before it closes off) was achieved with default behavior.

 

Then again, I am not a Boom savvy mapper so I don't know how much that means, coming from me xD

 

Bottom line: I rather enjoyed your input. Thanks for sharing, @ketmar!

 

PS: If I do end up incorporating your idea in any form, I will be sure to credit you. I would say "I won't use your idea it if you don't want me to" but you know how it is with ideas. Once planted, they can not be removed. Also, even if I try not to use it, consciously, it has been assimilated into the subconscious parts of my imagination so.. credit is the best I can offer~

Edited May 11, 2020 by Zylinderkatze
Added the PS

[ketmar]

1 hour ago, Zylinderkatze said:

If I do end up incorporating your idea in any form, I will be sure to credit you.

eh, don't mind it! i wouldn't write it here if i didn't want you to use it. there is no need to give some special credits to me, i am happy enough that it served as some inspiration to you. use it as you like, wherever you like -- if it can add more fun to your maps, then everybody wins.

 

tl;dr: i throwed the idea here to trick you into doing all the hard work for me, so instead of creating such maps myself i can play yours. that was my Very Secret Plan. ;-)

[Zylinderkatze]

1 hour ago, ketmar said:

i wouldn't write it here if i didn't want you to use it.

that's what I thought but I figured it would be common sense and courtesy to ask anyways. I don't like to take things for granted :)

 

1 hour ago, ketmar said:

Very Secret Plan

you sly little rascal. But it is a win-win(-win) so why should I complain xD

 

Once I get to E1M6 (which will not take long because E1M3, E1M4 and E1M5 are already mostly up to par), you'll see first hand how your ideas might have "matured" into actual level design. I'll be bound to mention which ideas came from today's exchange, pretty much automatically. Even if you don't want me to xD

Edited May 11, 2020 by Zylinderkatze

[Zylinderkatze]

A very simple walkthrough

^{Just.. follow the line.. I guess?}

 

As mentioned before, here's an intentionally sloppy and unexplained map with the main route in green and some (but not all) detours and branches in purple.

 

For the main route you have to push all of ONE button in total. 

 

For the "100% secrets" run you.. need many xD

[Zylinderkatze]

This is my goodnight message xD

 

Remember this "warning"?

^{(that's spelled "scenery", Marcel)}

 

I made it come true! And the section went from this:

 

..to this:

I think it turned out nice. Nice enough for a dead end, at least.

 

Now really all that is left is the potato.

^{Boil 'em, mash 'em..}

 

Goodnight!

[Senor500]

Yeah it's a good scenery, interesting potato...

[Zylinderkatze]

1 hour ago, Senor500 said:

Yeah it's a good scenery, interesting potato...

 

It needs work. It's very "low-effort 199X". 

 

Speaking of work..

 

Dear diary:

Today I spent a big portion of my spare time adding detail to the "last descend" when the player leaves the cave system.

 

Basically, I changed this (notice the top left corner of the view):

 

Into this:

 

And while I was at it, I also "cautiously retouched" the outside of that last outpost (in the lower right corner of the above image).. and I think I will actually not do much more to its outside because it has kind of an oldschool appeal x3

 

Here's the before and after:

 

^{("hey! that's my old school!")}

 

I even managed to get a similar angle for the preview! yay!

 

This arena is the last puzzle piece. I will leave it very similarly "open". Because there's a rather nifty mix of Lost Souls, Cacos and Pinkys there that keep you on your toes.. together with some evil "hitscanning" enemies.. and I like the way you can kind of "play" with them, maybe even get some infighting going.. though I might add a bit of cover and perhaps a bit more height variety, too.

 

But generally I will leave it as it is.. because I like it as the "oh, is this the exit building?" scene when you approach it :3

 

I think this will take me another day. Then I will be done!

 

Yep. I can't believe it either.

 

I'll see you tomorrow!

Edited May 12, 2020 by Zylinderkatze

[Senor500]

2 hours ago, Zylinderkatze said:

and I like the way you can kind of "play" with them, maybe even get some infighting going..

That's some real Doom magic, and I'm liking the little touches you put in, while it not being too much...

One more day huh? Can't wait to see it finished.

[Zylinderkatze]

5 hours ago, Senor500 said:

some real Doom magic

That's what I'm aiming for, at least ^^ Wait.. you can't really aim in Doom.. hm.. that's what I'm shooting for.

 

No but seriously- I did change many sections of this level and some of them were fun before, but sloppily executed. I tried to save those and adjust them.. but looking back I might've been a bit too quick at dismissing the original parts of the 199X version (like the way you get the Plasma Gun was fully removed, for example. it's now in the spot where you found the BFG before, which has also been removed xD). I hope not too much of the initial "easygoing carelessness" appeal was lost. Going forward into the coming "renewal tasks" after this one, I will be a bit more sensible about that ^^;

 

I kind of make this sound all serious, like telling your Cacodemon that it's adopted. Of course this is only a few levels from way back in the day, for a 25+ year old game. It's inconsequential but I am taking the concept and the general vibe serious :)

 

Also, sorry @Senor500, for using my response to your post as kind of a segue into my summary of the day, last night.

 

Speaking of segues..

 

Nah I'm just kidding xD 

 

6 hours ago, Senor500 said:

One more day huh? Can't wait to see it finished.

I'm determined to finish up the surrounding area of that building and make the surrounding walls feel more like actual natural(ish) rock formations.. but like I said, that should not take me more than a day. Then a final test run (or several) and possibly ammo and health adjustments, presumably also within that ominous "day".. and it should be done.

 

The structure itself will not change anymore (after the above mentioned fixes). All that's missing is making sure that the level flow works right (in my opinion).

 

That said: Mentioning the BFG, I remembered that I still have a "dangling" openable secret passage left which doesn't yet hold a reward.. hmm. Okay maybe there's a tiny bit of "making additional structures" work left c:

 

We'll see.

 

You'll see.

 

 

Bye for now!

 

[Zylinderkatze]

8 hours ago, Zylinderkatze said:

Nah I'm just kidding xD

(Kidding about doing the same "using a reply as a transition" thing again. not kidding about "being sorry")

 

My work day is almost over! Then I'll get on my own personal PC (personal personal computer? O_o) and finalize this level. Or at least take it as far as I can before the day is over ^^

 

Updates will come when appropriate!

[Zylinderkatze]

Soo.. I fiddled a bit with textures and alignment for the door and.. 

..I think I overdid it ^^;

 

It looks kind of neat but it's overall too "metal-y" and you can't really tell which part's the door xD

 

I'll go a few steps back and see at what point I derailed~

 

aside from that, all the surrounding area is pretty much done. One wall is missing the "make it look like cliffs"-treatment but aside from that it's neat-o!

 

I'll post a picture or three when it's "done done".

 

Then again, it's already 11:40pm.. hmm..

 

*shrugs*

[taufan99]

Comparing your place's mean time with mine, I assume you're from Central/East Europe. Which country exactly, if I may know?

(Also, sleep tight! It's okay to reply this only after you've taken enough sleep.)

[Zylinderkatze]

17 minutes ago, InDOOMnesia said:

Comparing your place's mean time with mine, I assume you're from Central/East Europe. Which country exactly, if I may know?

(Also, sleep tight! It's okay to reply this only after you've taken enough sleep.)

Of course, ask away! Central Europe is very much spot on. I'm from Germany c:

 

And thanks, I am about to go to bed- but there's one load of screenshots coming, still.. only minutes now~

[Zylinderkatze]

"Potato, no more"

 

What was once a low detail, brown mess.. is now fully 2020'ed!

 

Check it out:

^{There's cliffs, also an (again slightly dialed back) entrance}

 

^{There's more cliffs- don't mind the Cacos ^^;}

 

^{There's even a little splash of color! No diving off the edge! >_<}

 

^{And the main area is generally still pretty much as it was before: Wide open.}

 

I might still add a little slightly raised rock platform in the middle (not for cover, just for variety). But..

1. it's late
2. I haven't tested this final version "in game yet".. only sections, while I was working on them. So this might already be near (or beyond) Vanilla limits
3. it's late

I did achieve my goal of finalizing this area tonight.. which makes me happy c:

But the test run of the whole level and the before mentioned last bonus area will have to wait until tomorrow. Sorry ó_ò 

 

I'm off for now. Goodnight! :3