1995 called. They want their Doom levels back.

[Zylinderkatze]

Quick update:

The area works.

 

Infighting works. None of the corpses are my doing xD

 

I always wanted to say that.

[Zylinderkatze]

Aww, how nice!

^{It looks like I reached the exit? And I even get a Soul Sphere? How super cool! Let's go grab it! :3}

 

It's time for bed now, but yes, that is the door to the final room.

 

I'm still fiddling a bit with the passage that leads to it.

 

I only worked on the level for about an hour today.

 

Long day. Goodnight!

[ketmar]

7 hours ago, Zylinderkatze said:

Let's go grab it!

no wai. i know that it is there for sale, with guards. that's why they always appear when taking something valuable. too bad they don't want to negotiate a financial plan which will satisfy both sides...

Edited May 15, 2020 by ketmar

[Hellbent]

I'm stoked that you aren't going to modernize your maps too much by keeping them vanilla. Honestly, the screenshots look so good with the E1 sky that switching to the dark sky seems like a step backward. Either way, I'm liking the screenshots and story behind this thread very much!

 

It would be nice if you uploaded the original 1995 maps for posterity sake.

[Zylinderkatze]

6 hours ago, Hellbent said:

Honestly, the screenshots look so good with the E1 sky that switching to the dark sky seems like a step backward.

I agree, it does look quite good (and retro) with the "classic" sky, however the starry sky is the same version I had made for the original project back in 1995 :) I just hadn't loaded it into the levels when I posted the first screenshots. So even the retro levels will have the "night" approach.

 

I think I still have to splash screen that I had replaced for the episode (in fact I had custom made the title screen, help screen, logo, the menu skull and even the episode map along with all animating tiles and the mission name graphics, back in 1995 already).. I'll post it here if I can find it- it also already had that starry sky in it. Not that I have to prove anything but I think it looks cool, all things (like its age.. and mine at the time xD) considered.

 

There's two reasons for the stars- one is, that it was my "vision" from the beginning that the levels- particularly the first mission- take place at night. I think it's possible to replace the sky(box) texture on a per-level basis.. right? I might just use it for the first mission. Because this brings me to reason two: there's scenes where you can look off of the edge of the oil rig / platform and into the distance and usual sky textures start tiling at.. I think about 52 units height? Meaning you'd need a wall around any stage to obfuscate the line where the sky starts again.. or get a custom texture that's higher.. or that tiles seamlessly (hence the stars).

 

It does look and feel better in motion, though :) But of course you're also free to load a custom sky along with the episode when you play it ^^

 

Map / Mission 2 (the one I am currently working on) had an original outside light level of 190.. so that indicates that I wanted the missions to get brighter as they progress.. or had no clue what I was doing xD

[Zylinderkatze]

6 hours ago, Hellbent said:

aren't going to modernize your maps too much

Better not look at E1M1, then ^^;; that one is a total rebuild from scratch. But that was a long time coming because I wasn't particularly satisfied with it in 1995 and the 2010 renewal efforts (that mostly redeemed it) were lost to the gods of computer drive failure.. so I figured it might as well serve as my (re)initiation ritual to completely redo it. I put a lot of love into it. Perhaps a little too much xD

 

Chances are that -once I am done with the remaining levels- I will go back to E1M1 and make some amends, before then bringing it all together as the whole episode..

 

6 hours ago, Hellbent said:

It would be nice if you uploaded the original 1995 maps for posterity sake.

Another vote in favor ot that, then. Good ^^; I had already heavily considered doing that- and after @ketmar suggested putting them in individual episodes.. that idea kind of stuck :) ..so you'll get 18 levels for the price of none!

 

Also: Hi @Hellbent. Good to see you x3

Edited May 15, 2020 by Zylinderkatze

[Zylinderkatze]

HMP, Any %

^{This is what I left the level with..}

 

..if you know the way and outmaneuver most of the enemies, that is.

 

Still a bit generous (at some point I had 50 shells again) but that's to show that I actually did a full test run xD 

 

Some more will follow.

[Zylinderkatze]

This happened more by chance, really..

 

It's the last room I built.. it's much smaller than you might think.. it's really only a small alcove of sorts.. but I think it's kind of fitting xD

 

All it needs now is a trident and a tail.. ^^;

 

Haha. Yeah, no. It's just a "scenery detail" and the things that kind of look like horns are just implied inlets of sorts.. for a pool.. of sorts.

 

This is all connected to when and where and how you get the BFG if you really look for it.. and juggle a few switches.

 

With that, I believe I am finally fully done with the "alpha" of this E1M2 thing.

 

Some more heavy testing tomorrow and then this goes live :)

 

For now, though, I bid thee a good night~

[Zylinderkatze]

A few test runs later..

 

It all looks good. I found a few parts of the cliffs / canyon that were still misaligned and a sector with a missing tag (so it wouldn't respond to the switch that was supposed to trigger it). Little things, really (even though the latter was kind of a bad oversight on my part).

 

Since the map layout is now fully done, here's a 1995 vs 2020 (in editor rendering of the) map screens, for comparison.

 

The covered area actually got a bit smaller (both pictures were taken at the same zoom level).. but there's so much more to see now!

 

Then:

 

Now:

 

It's after midnight here but I'll test this some more.. before I let you test it ^^

 

Bear with me (no that's not a threat, I don't have an actual bear with me).. I will publish the beta tomorrow!

 

And since some might say that it is factually "tomorrow" already.. let me reiterate: I mean Sunday. 17th of May. 2020.

[ketmar]

7 hours ago, Zylinderkatze said:

I will publish the beta tomorrow!

oh, don't make such promises. you'll be lucky if you'll find the blocking bug the last moment before uploading the thing. but usually you're getting reports about some silly thing that absolutely couldn't be missed by anybody with at least one eye and one brain cell only after you celebrated the success. at least this is what happens with me each time. hate it.

 

p.s.: after watching this thing for so long, we won't go away even if you'll ask us.

[Zylinderkatze]

9 hours ago, ketmar said:

you'll be lucky if you'll find the blocking bug the last moment

Oh how I wish I didn't know what you mean xD I feel you.

 

I "work" in IT, as a programmer of sorts, which alone already exposes me to plenty of "unexpected process breaking bug" encounters. On top of that I used to work for a (small) games publisher at one point and also for a phone app developer at another.. so I'm used to the sounds of "wait, how did no one notice this until now" or "this was still working yesterday" or "it works on my machine", in combination with deadlines.

 

For my own assertion, as it stands right now, the level has too much health in it ..but because there are so many branching paths, I am still working out where to remove a stimpack or three. I might just leave them in but I don't want the level to feel too generous / easy.

 

Also, I expect (and wholeheartedly encourage) that those who play the level's "beta" will seek out and find weird stuff when it comes to level flow (which I will already be too blind to, by now).. or look at an HOM-inducing arrangement of sectors at an angle that I didn't found myself before.

 

I'm running one more test.. or two.. then this thing gets patched together with its 25 year old legacy version and a file_id.diz ("or whatever the kids are calling it these days") and I'll let it take it's first baby steps :3

 

More soon!

[Zylinderkatze]

lol.

^{Time to make sure you can't go where I'm standing right now ^^;}

Edited May 17, 2020 by Zylinderkatze

[Zylinderkatze]

Speaking of "how did no one notice this until now":

^{This is around the corner from when you leave the starting room xD}

 

Let's see how I can fix that. Hold me bee~ ..apple juice.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Zylinderkatze

[Zylinderkatze]

Made it through!

^{Okay but now can I have it?}

 

Ammo is much better balanced I'd say.. but the Health / Armor distribution is still much too generous.

 

I might just leave it at this.. or I might tinker with it a little more (I already did a bit).

 

Or maybe I will just publish it? Hmm..

[Zylinderkatze]

Infamous last words

On 5/17/2020 at 8:43 PM, Zylinderkatze said:

Or maybe I will just publish it?

 

Are you ready? I'm not.

 

M2-compare.zip (externally hosted now)

 

 

"The new default": 2020

^{Jump to E1M2 to play!}

 

"The old friend": 1997

^{Can be found in slot E2M2}

 

Disclaimer: This is just a beta. I know that it just barely skirts the Vanilla limits in some places but it's finishable and all the secrets work :) Currently just enough ammo to kill everything on HMP.. but way too much health (and armor) if you find all the secrets (because "Soul Spheres").

 

I said I would publish it today, though.. and I am "satisfied enough" with it to actually do so.. so.. go go go!

 

Please let me know your opinion, which parts you liked the most, the least, etc.

 

I'm very curious what you think!

 

Enjoy :3

Edited June 5, 2020 by Zylinderkatze

[Zylinderkatze]

Part of a balanced meal

 

Speaking of "HMP": This level probably works best on normally difficulty. "Hard" has about 10% - 20% more monsters and 30% less health (I estimate).. but also a little less ammo. Which means it might not be enough ammo.

 

We'll fix it in post!

 

I mean.. sorry if you run out. I'll rebalance that before I weld everything together ^^

[Zylinderkatze]

"199X"

 

I go back and forth between saying 1995 and 1997 because I started these levels back in 1995.. but the whole original episode (along with all the replaced intro- and map screen graphics, etc) wasn't "done" until 1997.

 

E1M1 and E1M2 were the first ones I made, if I remember correctly.. so using "1995" in reference to them is fair.. but I don't want to sounds like I'm lying about their age ^^;

[ketmar]

so i tried.

 

the famous scene without 3d models:

Spoiler

 

the famous scene with 3d models. note FPS counter.

Spoiler

 

ok, i wanna walk a little. what? i didn't ordered any meeting party!

Spoiler

 

you wanna me to came out and have some fun? no wai!

Spoiler

 

that's basically where it end. next time i'll go with properly prepared BDW arsenal, i didn't expected such warm welcome!

Edited May 18, 2020 by ketmar

[Zylinderkatze]

1 hour ago, ketmar said:

so i tried.

I admit.. shooting right after you leave the first building.. might yield a surprise. Not necessarily a pleasant one. But with K8Vavoom at least a pretty one ^^

 

I might've liked the concept of the way that the "meeting party".. rises to the occasion a little too much. But to be honest, it was actually my plan to "force" the player to be on the run if you decide to go in guns blazing.. so that worked ^^; Though that said, I guess it's very.. un-Doom to penalize the player for shooting xD

 

There's ways to get the shotgun relatively early on- but it's not in plain sight. Though.. actually I think the current (former) owner of it is in sight from the spot where you leave that first building. Hint: it's the building to the left in your third screenshot, behind the structure that has the shotgun shells on it (not the heavily guarded outlook in the cliff face).

 

And yes, I had to hold out / hole up in that spot (the one where your initial play time ended) as well in one of my playthroughs and I see how that would be an unpleasant form of hell to survive with a pistol.

 

I rather like the way the lost souls look in K8Vavoom, btw. And the Caco Eye glow makes it look even more sinister x3 I will definitely check out K8Vavoom now. Well- not now now. More like later today now.

 

Thanks for taking a look! :) 

Edited May 18, 2020 by Zylinderkatze

[ketmar]

as you can see, i was equipped with assault rifle instead of a pistol. not that it helped much, tho. ;-)

 

4 minutes ago, Zylinderkatze said:

I rather like the way the lost souls look in K8Vavoom, btw. And the Caco Eye glow makes it look even more sinister x3 I will definitely check out K8Vavoom now.

you will be disappointed. ;-) those are external brightmaps, the pack alone is at least half of the size of k8vavoom archive. it is modified "brightmaps plus for gzdoom" pack. so all credits to its author. ;-)

 

7 minutes ago, Zylinderkatze said:

Thanks for taking a look! :)

i'll try it again later. for now, i just wanted to make a quick run... and it was really quick one. ;-)

[Zylinderkatze]

5 minutes ago, ketmar said:

and it was really quick one ;-)

I should add to the above disclaimer that I am a "HMP wuss". I hardly ever play on UV / NM so my levels aren't balanced for that (yet).. and perhaps a bit too deadly, if you try.

 

I am definitely going to reiterate over all the "difficulty-influencing parameters" (monsters, ammo, health) before this thing leaves it's beta stage.

 

Though I admit it's shortsighter of me to not invest more time in that before releasing it as a beta.. because the number of monsters vs. the amount of ammo & placement of weapons directly influences how "fun" a level feels.

 

That said: Please do let me know if any spot is too unfair. Or if you (the general "you"; not necessarily you in particular, @ketmar ^^) run out of ammo prematurely. But I am not going to give you a shotgun at the start. xP

 

12 minutes ago, ketmar said:

modified "brightmaps plus for gzdoom" pack. so all credits to its author. ;-)

Thank you for pointing it out ^^ I suppose instead of commending your engine project's presets, then, I will instead praise you for your considerate inclusion of such a visually pleasing extension in your setup for the screenshots x3

 

Either way it looks pretty cool- even the slightly glowing water looks nice. Usually I'd think something like that looks a bit.. tacky? But it actually looks good x3

[ketmar]

and water glow is included in base pack. ;-) you can turn it off, of course (as most other features, k8vavoom is all about options! ;-). if you turn off almost everything, it will be "vanilla-like" (except the light darkening, it is approximation, not emulation). but i prefer to play with brightmaps, glow, lights, bloom (and built-in gore mod, see the screenshot). first, because i like it that way, and second, to make sure that i didn't accidentally broke some advanced feature. ;-)

 

(that slightly glowing thing around the lamp is not a corona sprite, it is bloom effect, btw.)

 

Spoiler

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by ketmar

[Zylinderkatze]

3 hours ago, ketmar said:

built-in gore mod

So much blood O_O

 

...

 

^_^

[ketmar]

1 hour ago, Zylinderkatze said:

So much blood O_O

ah, it is virtually nothing, i just killed several poor things for a screenshot. with "bloodbath" setting you can literally paint walls with blood, paint floor with blood, and blood will be dipping from the ceiling. i even had to put in some hacks to limit it, because sometimes it could slow down the engine to the crawl. because this is DOOM!

 

(no worries, you can control amount of blood in options, and even disable gore mod with "-nogore" to get only lone occasional blood splats here and there)

 

p.s.: adding decal support was the first thing i did for original Vavoom. and then i immediately ported (and partially rewrote) Ketchup mod.

Edited May 18, 2020 by ketmar

[Zylinderkatze]

@ketmar ..btw: for the 3D models (in your screenshots).. do they actually obey the orientation given to the "thing"?

 

I never gave it much thought how ammo is oriented.. (only monsters) but with 3d models for other things, that would start to become relevant, if they apply it.

[ketmar]

41 minutes ago, Zylinderkatze said:

for the 3D models (in your screenshots).. do they actually obey the orientation given to the "thing"?

yes.

 

fun thing: there are some wads from 1995, where people did care about pickup (or decoration) orientation for some reason. but generally i am so used to random angles that i almost never bother to notice "proper" ones.

Edited May 18, 2020 by ketmar

[Zylinderkatze]

1 hour ago, ketmar said:

there are some wads from 1995

..to be fair, I do usually make sure that all items in a spot are oriented the same direction.. I think I recall that sometimes I even made them face the "likely direction the player approaches them from".. just because it made sense to me ^^; which doesn't mean much xD

 

I'll have to check my WADs and see if I remember correctly.

[ketmar]

so, i finished both maps. the "vintage" one was much easier, because after the new one i did it like "no. no, thank you. not today, sorry, call my secretary. sorry, i am too busy, i have to run away now." oh, but that new one...

 

i really love the way you're hinting at secrects, but somehow i didn't found a rocket launcher. and cleaning tomato farms without it was... hard. also, i spent alot of time in that first area with water. this time i knew the trick, and didn't shot anybody until i was prepared. but then i was running around in circles trying to find out how can i progress. i tried all doors... except the right one, which was right before my eyes all the time. i guess this is very indicative of my exploration skills.

 

overall, i liked it, and didn't noticed any bugs. but this prolly because i was too busy trying to keep my ass still attached to its proper place.

 

i played with my overpowered assault rifle and headshots, btw. not that it helped me much, tho. but it was really fun. dunno about the balance, because i am not even an average player (yet i insist playing on UV for some reason). my awful skills somehow remedied by overpowered weapons, and i never felt that the map is unfair. most of the time it was my fault. except the exit room, but i guess i shouldn't ran blindly for that shiny thing, so it is my fault too. i found a berserk pack, and it helped alot, btw.

 

sorry for not giving any constructive feedback besides "it was fun". but it was fun! ;-)

 

p.s.: i don't even want to imagine how it is possible with infinite tall monsters. no wai. at least not for me. call me cheater now.

Edited May 18, 2020 by ketmar

[Zylinderkatze]

1 hour ago, ketmar said:

infinite tall monsters

It does make "juggling them" a bit more complicarted, that's true. But I do test all my levels with Vanilla/Chocolate so it's possible. However, I know where all of them are, so it's not really fair of me to say that it's possible xD

 

The rocket launcher is probably the best hidden weapon in this level, on par with the BFG, because it requires three individual steps.. but then again most weaponse take several steps. Wait.. let me..

 

Here's an "as spoiler free as possible" overview:

• Chaingun: find an interactive monitor² in the first big brown structure (not the one in the exit area)- the monitor is next to what is supposed to look like a video feed / interactive model of the affected area.
• Plasma Gun: gain access to the "behind the cliffs" section (which requires you to have found the button that opens the chaingun AND get the yellow skull key) and find a button there (which can be seen prominently in one of the screenshots I posted before x3) ..which raises steps back in the main part of the level.
• BFG: same as Plasma Gun but you also need to get the red skull key (easy to see, hard-ish to get to) and find the access to the overhead tracks.. and that's only the beginning² ^^
• Rocket Launcher: find the secret access to the "shotgun guy"^1,2 in the room with all the Lost Souls (in the starting area) in order to open the gate to the storage area (with Forky!) behind the silver gate. Once there, work out how to get to the raised control area with the three screens^1,3. Then you see it but you can't get to it.. but you can open the door² so you can get to it from the other side (once you opened the access to the Chaingun)

 

Here's three hints that apply to my levels:

1. If it's an enemy that drops ammo, you can get to it somehow. Take this to heart when you see a Sergeant in a room somewhere which seems inaccessible
2. Monitors and computer consoles make much better interactive elements than switches (not really, I know.. but I love doing that)
3. If you think that it's a mistake that you can crawl onto scenery, it isn't.

 

Maybe that helps. Maybe it makes everything worse xD

Edited May 18, 2020 by Zylinderkatze

[Zylinderkatze]

1 hour ago, ketmar said:

except the exit room, but i guess i shouldn't ran blindly for that shiny thing, so it is my fault too

That bit is a (rather unfair) legacy from the 1995 version of the level.. but there is a hint at the room that will make it so much easier..

 

The thing is: in the "vintage" version of the level, I kind of teach you little by little that when there's a barrel somewhere, it indicates a secret room behind it.. only that in the new version, that isn't true anymore, so that barrel is just another barrel, albeit weirdly placed. But because of that, I made it just barely more obvious that there might be something with that wall, by adding a few miscolored strips of texture to each side (but only 2 pixles wide.. and only BROWNHUG on BROWN96).. and the floor. But it's easy to miss. Intentionally.

 

But maybe that's a little too mean..?

^{(yes it is)}

Edited May 18, 2020 by Zylinderkatze