Weird glitch with vanilla textures

[ArgentFrequencies]

I'm making a Doom Map with no custom textures or flats, but there's a glitch with one of the textures when running with chocolate doom. Is there any way to fix this? It only seems to affect the Step4 texture.

Edited February 11, 2020 by ArgentFrequencies

[Doomkid]

You'd have to make a custom 128x128 texture that is just like Step4, but it tiles. If you do this, it will avoid the tutti frutti effect. The program Slade3 is the best for editing/adding textures.

[jval]

It's the tutti - frutti effect. More info at the wiki.

Source ports correct this problem.

[ArgentFrequencies]

1 minute ago, jval said:

It's the tutti - frutti effect. More info at the wiki.

Source ports correct this problem.

Is there any way to avoid tutti-frutti in chocolate doom?

[ArgentFrequencies]

1 minute ago, Doomkid said:

You'd have to make a custom 128x128 texture that is just like Step4, but it tiles. If you do this, it will avoid the tutti frutti effect. The program Slade3 is the best for editing/adding textures.

I'll keep tutti-frutti as one of the learning hurdles in vanilla Doom modding. Are there any other strange quirks that I might encounter, like excluding f_start and s_start in pwads, specific names for sprites, etc?

[jval]

8 minutes ago, ArgentFrequencies said:

Is there any way to avoid tutti-frutti in chocolate doom?

 

Use SLADE3 to alter the TEXTURE1 lump, and make your texture 128px in height:

 

 

Edited February 11, 2020 by jval

[jval]

2 minutes ago, ArgentFrequencies said:

I'll keep tutti-frutti as one of the learning hurdles in vanilla Doom modding. Are there any other strange quirks that I might encounter, like excluding f_start and s_start in pwads, specific names for sprites, etc?

 

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Category:Errors_and_bugs

 

[Doomkid]

1 minute ago, ArgentFrequencies said:

I'll keep tutti-frutti as one of the learning hurdles in vanilla Doom modding. Are there any other strange quirks that I might encounter, like excluding f_start and s_start in pwads, specific names for sprites, etc?

 

In addition to those, you'll always need to be aware of your visplane limits: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Visplane_overflow

 

If you're adding a custom MIDI for you level, it also has to be below 64kb.

[ArgentFrequencies]

Just now, Doomkid said:

 

In addition to those, you'll always need to be aware of your visplane limits: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Visplane_overflow

 

If you're adding a custom MIDI for you level, it also has to be below 64kb.

Music is also a good point I want to start learning sometime. Are there any programs I can use to make classic Microsoft MIDI?

[Doomkid]

I found that Tux Guitar (based on Guitar Pro) was the easiest way to simply enter the notes I wanted and have them played back to me. If you know your theory basics, it’s a total sinch to use.

 

I compose in Tux then add my “sugar and spice” in Sekaiju.

 

https://sourceforge.net/projects/tuxguitar/

 

https://openmidiproject.osdn.jp/index_en.html

 

If you need to shave just a little bit of file size off your MIDI to get below the necessary file size, MIDI3MUS can be helpful in that situation:

 

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/980861

[ArgentFrequencies]

Just now, Doomkid said:

I found that Tux Guitar (based on Guitar Pro) was the easiest way to simply enter the notes I wanted and have them played back to me. If you know your theory basics, it’s a total sinch to use.

 

I compose in Tux then add my “sugar and spice” in Sekaiju.

 

https://sourceforge.net/projects/tuxguitar/

 

https://openmidiproject.osdn.jp/index_en.html

 

If you need to shave just a little bit of file size off your MIDI to get below the necessary file size, MIDI3MUS can be helpful in that situation:

 

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/980861

Thanks! I'm not the best musician, but I feel like I could come up with some good stuff in Doom MIDI.

[Diabolución]

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Vanilla_Doom_engine_mapping_reference

The maximum size allowed for MIDIs is more or less 96 KB, as mentioned in the threads of certain MIDI packs.

 

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/63561/

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/92733/

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/85140/

 

[Noiser]

One adendum about to the music size: The MIDI limit actually is more or less around 96kb.
64kb refers to the MUS file, which have a smaller size. Any music is automatically converted by the Doom engine from MIDI to MUS.

EDIT: I got ninja'd by Diabolución lol

Hey @ArgentFrequencies! You can see some important limits for vanilla mapping on the VisplaneExplorer or Chocorenderlimits (Visplane and Drawsegs are the most common) but you can have a better coverage of other engine limits here: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Static_limits

Edited February 11, 2020 by Noiser

[ArgentFrequencies]

The tutti-frutti thing is solved. I'll probably keep asking questions in this forum from time to time until I get the hang of perfectly making maps, and being able to rectify any errors. After that, my next goal is properly understanding how to make an engaging level. I've used Boom and GZDoom to make some levels before, but I always left them unfinished, as they didn't feel nearly as interesting as most of the levels out there. If more interesting levels can be made under vanilla's limits (Doom Zero as an example), I should be able to work with them too. With many of the levels I made, I'm good at making them look nice, but with the detail removed, there isn't that much that's clever or interesting. But with how helpful it's been here, I'm confident that being on Doomworld will help me with this. Thank you all with the help you've given so far.

Edited February 11, 2020 by ArgentFrequencies

[Doomkid]

2 hours ago, Noiser said:

64kb refers to the MUS file, which have a smaller size. Any music is automatically converted by the Doom engine from MIDI to MUS.

I had no idea that MIDIs could go up to 96kb. I had sometimes gotten away with MIDI files in excess of 70kb - I figured it was being allowed because the internal conversion to MUS was shrinking the file, or some other magic I didn't understand. It's good to know the MIDI limits aren't as stringent!

 

What's interesting to note is that vanilla Doom's built-in MIDI to MUS conversion seems to be messier than using a program like MIDI3MUS.

 

I have some example wads here using the song "Down on the Corner". One is in MIDI format, the other is in MUS format. They both replace the music for map01.

 

downmid.zip

 

downmus.zip

 

If you play these back in DOS, you'll notice the vocal melody (a flute) is completely messed up in the MIDI version. In the version that's been converted to MUS, it sounds much better.

 

I've also run into examples where a MIDI simply refused to play back in the vanilla EXE - either crashing with a Z_Malloc bug, or just not playing any music at all - but after a conversion to MUS, it worked perfectly.

 

Just some strange examples where MUS still comes in handy. Of course most source ports just play back native MIDI, but when making something with the goal of DOS compatibility, it's worth keeping in mind that in fringe cases, converting to MUS may help. Mainly if the MIDI either sounds Fubar'd or crashes the game altogether. Rare cases, but they've happened to me quite a few times at this point!

Edited February 11, 2020 by Doomkid

[Gez]

There's no real set value to how large a MIDI can be, what matters is how large the MUS produced by the internal converter is. And not only is MUS a more compact format than MIDI, but it also simply ignores a lot of things that can be stored in MIDIs that aren't stored in MUS, like metadata and various events.

 

The loss of metadata is why I hate MUS.

[ArgentFrequencies]

8 hours ago, Doomkid said:

I found that Tux Guitar (based on Guitar Pro) was the easiest way to simply enter the notes I wanted and have them played back to me. If you know your theory basics, it’s a total sinch to use.

 

I compose in Tux then add my “sugar and spice” in Sekaiju.

 

https://sourceforge.net/projects/tuxguitar/

 

https://openmidiproject.osdn.jp/index_en.html

 

If you need to shave just a little bit of file size off your MIDI to get below the necessary file size, MIDI3MUS can be helpful in that situation:

 

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/980861

Ok so using the programs given is a bit more complicated than I thought. I'm more used to a piano roll style, which Sekaiju does, but it's still a bit too precise (I also can't zoom in.) Though this issue is less Doom related and more program related. Is there another program that people used for something like Eviternity's music? There's one track in there that's almost an hour long.