Serpent's Wake for Heretic (v1.1 uploaded to archive)

[Hisymak]

On 4/26/2020 at 7:55 PM, hervoheebo said:

So when it comes to balancing the midis for different fonts, I think OPL is a good one to test with also because I think it's somewhat commonly used.

Just to note, that one of the important things I did with my "Hisymak's GENMIIDI" soundfont is rebalancing volume of many instruments. The default Doom/Heretic soundfont has many "weaker" instruments that sound bland and are barely audible when other "stronger" instruments play. I changed many instruments, and on some others I only increased volume, so that all instruments should be well audible and distinguishable.

So I wanted to say that trying to balance a MIDI for default OPL soundfont could be quite difficult and unfeasible and this might break on other soundfonts. With my soundfont the situation is much closer to "regular" soundfonts.

 

But I see we're running a bit out of the main topic. I remember I had a few more comments to say about my experience playing through SWake.

 

In E3M6, I got very surprised, that the whole E3M5 level is contained in it (but without any monsters and things, just the map geometry). For quite long time I did not even realize the starting area was a desctucted dam that appeared in E3M5. Then I was looking for all secrets in E3M6 (I could probably not find the last one) and I saw lot of unexplored area around the beginning area, and from the one end of destructed dam I saw a switch on the other side. I assumed there is some secret stuff over there and tried hard to find a way to it, but ended up getting there using rocket jump. Then I just appeared on that central courtyard from E3M5, everything was same (but without things), that was an astonishing moment for me. I looked thoroughly around it, expecting to find some secret stuff or kind of easter egg, but that did not happen. (this phenomenon could be seen in some Duke Nukem 3D maps, where parts of previous/next level can be seen in current level)

I got pretty amused by how many weapons you place in your maps, especially multiple weapons of same type placed next to each other. This is something rather unusual, I see it's your original attitude to place weapons as "ammo".

Edited April 28, 2020 by Hisymak

[hervoheebo]

Oh sure, with the music I had an ulterior motive regarding the next project which I forgot to mention... let's call it 1: 1 is strictly vanilla with minimal new graphics. So it would make sense to recommend OPL music for that, but I also want to "remix" the tracks I wanted to use, and the specific global change I want is to have an... electric? bass drum, like midi drum note 28, but with more bass. I don't think it will sound like I want it to in OPL... so digital music in ogg or mp3 is an option, but it might be too hi-fi for vanilla..

 

I'm glad the dam thing was noticed, this is basically taken from Earth 2150's infamous Lost Souls expansion which did the same thing: one level features a dam and your mission is to "demolish" it which just causes the level to change, and the next one is mostly the same but the dam (really just a steep slope) is broken and the water flooded.

Before:

https://i.imgur.com/fcJzDlb.jpg

After

https://i.imgur.com/nra3lVq.jpg

I thought this was really cool in its ghetto-ness because... it's kind of something I'd call meta-design. It relies little on specific features of the game but instead arranges already existing elements to meet its goals. Like in Doom2 map 26, monster condo, my favorite level in that game, the gameplay is drastically different because basically every encounter is triggered by traps and closets which makes it much like a stealth level in a game with very rudimentary support for that sort of thing. And, my favorite trick, the duplicate room which may make you think that the enemies in the same room just respawned, or the game did some arcane tricks to make it happen, but no, it's just a copy-pasted room.

 

And yes I do remember Duke 3D also doing something like that, the craziest example probably being within the same level, where you have to escape an exploding building, and when you get out, directly behind you is a collapsed ruin which makes you think that the level actually changed like that in real-time, when it's just a discreet teleporter doing its tricks. They really utilized that well, I wonder what might be done with it in Hexen.

 

I have a strange affection for when games do this "previous unreachable area" thing. Like in World of Warcraft, in some dungeons like Shadowfang Keep the site is outside so you could see the outside world and possibly even glitch your way out there. Since the dungeons are bigger on the inside the outside facade was probably just copy-pasted at some point and enlarged. I did something similar here, at some point I just copied the relevant parts and didn't bother with small changes done to the original level since it's really just intended to be like a facade.. although there is a part where it looks like you can't go past, with the brown rocks, but you actually can. There is an item on top of the dam but no secret since it's kind of "Unofficial".  Now, this relates to another liking of mine, doing things in games you aren't supposed to do, or at least making you feel like you're not supposed to be able to do it. Generally in games I think that exploration is the most interesting when you're breaking boundaries, like climbing supposedly unclimbable hills and going to the no-man's-land. Now, I knew that you would really want to do that with the previous level facade. However, I thought it would be really difficult and kind of minor to keep the old level consistent with the quest changes and stuff.  If it's an "official" secret, then certain standards are imposed. But, well,  since you need to rocket jump to get there (design was intentionally kept loose to let the player break the rules on occasion regarding things like this), it's not so strict, and it feels more forbidden and interesting to go there. 

 

On the other hand, unreachable facade areas can also feel frustrating. If you follow the "if the player can see outside he should be able to get there" rule, this goes right out. Taken too far, it feels like some annoying RPG stuff where the levels are glorified corridors because the player can only walk on flat paths, and even if he can move more freely, invisible walls block passage. Like all the cool stuff is elsewhere. The point is to just tease the player a bit and make the world feel bigger and more mysterious than it actually is. 

 

Another "continuation" that comes to mind here is the air ship in 6/7 (much like the ship in DeadMines https://i.imgur.com/l8r5P8u.jpg)... it was originally like a floating river that it went up on but thought that was hard to depict. The reason you get a chaos device on all quests before the ship room is that you can escape if you mistake the void for the reflecting puddles in the earlier parts of the level. Anyway this ship thing is only here briefly but I felt it's important that you can physically walk about the means of transportation. Like in Star Wars Shadows of the Empire, in addition to the space levels, the player character's spaceship appears in a couple of levels where you can walk in and on it. Also like the train in TJ which was like that also because of this reason.

 

The multiple weapons thing is basically taken from Doom2 map 16 suburbs, with the weird 4 plasma guns secret. I always thought it looked kind of interesting and made me want to get up there, maybe thinking that you're supposed to play in multiplayer with each player taking one plasma gun. In practice it really is just a fancy way of giving ammo, I think it feels kind of good to take those multiple weapons instead of just ammo.

 

Now yet another thing, reminded of by mention of invisible walls. The void areas are basically just damaging floors. The way I saw it I had three options: 1. cannot fall into the void (invisible walls) 2. cannot fall into the void (physically blocked) 3. ghetto "fall to death" voodoo trick 4. void is lava

1 is unacceptable, it restricts the player's movements around edges too much, it's arbitrary and artificial. It creates unreasonable disconnects with appearances and practice. This was done in the "paradise" part of TJ map 31 because of some visual tricks with the full-bright solid colors.

2 was actually done for a short while, this is why there are those jutting rocks and stuff in the first level's first part. It turned out to be too restricting. It won't feel like you're on some floating rocks if you just can't fall, and it will definitely look awkward when there are always conveniently placed rocks & trash preventing you from stepping over the edge.

3 refers to putting just past the edge a trigger that causes a voodoo doll to be instantly killed after a delay, tuned to happen just as the player hits the floor. This is too restricting and specific, and can result in false positives or oddities (player falls just past the edge and is safely at the bottom until he moves).

4 is a compromise. You don't actually fall, but you do die with no strange side effects, mostly. At one point the idea was that the "bottom" was like a cyan sun, or planet core, so if you fell in you burned. But there were difficulties depicting this especially since the sky must tile vertically.

[hervoheebo]

I had to take care of some business first but the 1.1 release has finally been submitted to the archive and should become available there shortly. I also took the time to wait a bit to incorporate more feed back but couldn't find any. Here are the final update notes from the text file:

 

General
                        -Incorrect music credit corrected in SWAKEMAP.txt
                        (Human 4 changed to Human 3)
                        -Textures ROCKTOPG, ROCKVINE and ROKVINEB changed
                         so the underlying rock texture is based on the 
                         new BRWNRCKS

E3M1 The Portal
                        -Changed a few lines to use the changed ROCKTOPG 
                        texture

E3M3 The Crypt
                        -Exit changed: switch opens a door which lets a 
                        doll scroll to an exit line, another doll dies on 
                        quest B to make this a death exit so that the 
                        player's inventory is cleared for the next map
                        (Death exit's side effects can be circumvented
                        by becoming invulnerable beforehand!)

E3M4 Wilderness
                        -Greater Runes in the key palace changed to C only,
                        from A or B or C
                        -Duplicate player 2 starts changed to players 3 
                        and 4 starts
                        -Secret exit room's teleporter access delayed a bit
                        -Secret exit island's floor raised 8 units so that 
                        you can't walk back up after stepping out

E3M6 Menhir Lands
                        -Music changed: 3 iterations each loop with 
                        differences for each one
                        -Some texture/flat changes
                        -A: 2 tomes of power removed, 1 wand crystal added,
                        more monsters added to yellow key trap, with
                        the Gargoyles changed to Fire Gargoyles since
                        their area can't be entered or left anymore 
                        (see below)
                        -Red-blue fork room: thin slice of roof corrected. 
                        Missing texture added. Torch corrected (C)
                        -Decorative stalactites near the end that were 
                        mistakenly flagged for C only have been enabled 
                        for all quests
                        -Ledge near the five standing stones (sector 21)
                        changes to impassable lines so the player can't
                        be flung to the inescapable decorative area

E3M7 Fortress of Arrogance
                        -Music changed: 3 iterations each loop with 
                        differences for each one
                        -A couple of non-slippery pieces of ice in the 
                        upper area made slippery

E3M8 Zodiac Hold
                        -Quest B: door cycle changed:

                        unchanged:
                        A: close South open North, close East open South,
                           close West open East, close North  open West

                        old:
                        B: close North open South, close West open East,
                           close East    open West, close South  open North

                        new:
                        B: close East open South, close West open East,       
                           close North open West, close South  open North

                        unchanged:
                        C: close West open East,   close North open West,
                           close South open North, close East open South

 

Copy of the original 1.0 release if want that more: https://www.mediafire.com/file/i7266fqf35u4nb3/swake.zip/file

The next wad will likely be ready in a few years.

 

[UnknDoomer]

Can't get how to finish secret E3M9. I've killed most of the enemies, but when press any switches got a hit for about 50% HP. Few gives nothing, few gives items and only specific gives 3 keys, but hero have enough HP to stay alive to get only 1 key... How to solve it, while there is no items to heal exist around?

 

Update. Found that player have in use infinite items to heal near the doors here. Missed them at first view.

 

 

1 - blue.
2 - green.
3 - yellow.

Keys location on "Smite-Meister" difficulty.

Edited October 12, 2022 by UnknDoomer

[UnknDoomer]

A small trick for final fight.

 

 

At the starting point where D'Sparil appears you can find invulnerability. You can't get to it using normal acceleration, but we you apply the trick with an exploding hourglass - place it behind the character and hold down the acceleration at the moment of explosion.

Further, the battle can also be somewhat simplified if you manage to drive the enemy into a corner, as shown in the screenshot. If it is not completely possible to cope with him here, then he can be found in the nearest ice space. To exit the level you need to follow the teleport in the center of the map - a square area with waterfalls.

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by UnknDoomer

[NaliSeed]

On 2/28/2020 at 12:47 PM, NightFright said:

Wow, lately we are really spoiled with Heretic episodes. And they are all good. A short break from Doom can't hurt!

If only Hexen received the same treatment ☹️

[Egregor]

I totally missed this as it was during my most recent Doom break. I'm looking forward to checking it out though!

 

3 hours ago, NaliSeed said:

If only Hexen received the same treatment ☹️

 

There are a lot of reasons why Hexen is not as popular to map for as Heretic; Hexen is designed as a "stand-alone" with a lot of unique puzzles as part of the assets which are complicated to use. Because it features hub style episodes it makes it hard to design single levels for it and thus prevents newer or casual mappers from attempting to map for Hexen. And probably the biggest reason mappers are discouraged from mapping for Hexen is the need to balance for 3 seperate classes. This makes potential gameplay progress of a Hexen episode go at 1/3rd the speed of Heretic or Doom. With all these issues it's no wonder most mappers choose Heretic (or Heretic in Hexen format).

 

A lot of recent Heretic (and Doom) episodes use assets (textures, enemies, weapons, etc.) FROM Hexen making them true fusions of both, mappers and moders cherry pick their favorite elements from those games. If you disappointed about the lack of Hexen I encourage you to take another look and be excited that so much of Hexen has found it's way back into Heretic and Doom.

[NaliSeed]

1 hour ago, Egregor said:

I totally missed this as it was during my most recent Doom break. I'm looking forward to checking it out though!

 

 

There are a lot of reasons why Hexen is not as popular to map for as Heretic; Hexen is designed as a "stand-alone" with a lot of unique puzzles as part of the assets which are complicated to use. Because it features hub style episodes it makes it hard to design single levels for it and thus prevents newer or casual mappers from attempting to map for Hexen. And probably the biggest reason mappers are discouraged from mapping for Hexen is the need to balance for 3 seperate classes. This makes potential gameplay progress of a Hexen episode go at 1/3rd the speed of Heretic or Doom. With all these issues it's no wonder most mappers choose Heretic (or Heretic in Hexen format).

 

A lot of recent Heretic (and Doom) episodes use assets (textures, enemies, weapons, etc.) FROM Hexen making them true fusions of both, mappers and moders cherry pick their favorite elements from those games. If you disappointed about the lack of Hexen I encourage you to take another look and be excited that so much of Hexen has found it's way back into Heretic and Doom.

Yeah, I always felt the puzzles part was a major deterrent, as was the limited amount of weapons for each class, and definitely the inherent backtracking. It was more the lack of quality maps I was thinking about, as only a handful of Hexen maps are really worth the time (Deathkings wasn't wholly satisfying in my opinion, feeling at times too much like a slaughter mapset). Shadows of Cronos gets mentioned a lot, despite having been left incomplete, in no small part due to class imbalance according to the author. However, I would definitely recommend Cyrgoth's Revenge and its follow-up Afterlands as the best two Hexen wads ever made. 

[eharper256]

7 hours ago, NaliSeed said:

If only Hexen received the same treatment ☹️

I would also encourage you to check out Walpurgis so you can play Hexen in Heretic and Doom freely. XD

[UnknDoomer]

I would definitely recommend Cyrgoth's Revenge and its follow-up Afterlands as the best two Hexen wads ever made.

@NaliSeed, if you will add some points to them I'll be able to add them into the list.

Edited October 30, 2022 by UnknDoomer