Attempting sky textures in Vanilla Doom

[ArgentFrequencies]

I'm attempting to make a large sky texture in Vanilla Doom. I understand that a 1024px width sky texture is fully used in source ports, but that method doesn't seem to work in vanilla. What ended up happening was the first quarter was taken and flipped, then repeated 4 times like normal 256px sky textures. I understand that Plutonia uses a separate system with a sky texture for each 256px chunk, with each texture lump named SKY#A, SKY#B, etc. but how do I do this in a Doom II pwad, which uses just one RSKY# for any given level?

The unconverted texture:

 

The result:

 

The PWAD so far in Slade:

 

I've also heard of the MAPINFO lump for stuff like this, but I've never seen it in the Doom II IWAD. Is it just for sourceports?

Edited February 18, 2020 by ArgentFrequencies

[Diabolución]

You have to use a graphics editor to split carefully (with neither skipping nor duplicating pixels) that sky into four patches of 256x128 with sensible names (NITESKY1, NITESKY2, NITESKY3 and NITESKY4, for example), as required by the vanilla engine. Then add them to PNAMES and edit the definition of SKY1 so that it consists of these four patches. Double-check the position of each patch, using as reference that sky of tnt.wad.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Diabolución

[jval]

You must edit the TEXTURE1 lump, locate the SKY texture and change the size to 1024x128.

 

Example (from TNT.WAD)

 

 

[jval]

2 minutes ago, ArgentFrequencies said:

I added it to TextureX using Doom II as the base resource archive. Still doesn't work, even when replicating that screenshot.

 

 

The entry in TEXTURE1 lump must be SKY1, not RSKY1. RSKY1 is the patch name (witch can be anything).

[Kappes Buur]

MAPINFO is only for engines which are capable to use this lump. First it appeared in ZDoom, but over

the years other engines also adopted it. Usually you find in maps for G/ZDoom, Eternity or EDGE.

 

Here is a short video showing the installation of a new sky with 4 patches.

However, the procedure is the same with just one patch. You have to adjust the size in TEXTURES1.

 

https://youtu.be/oFPp4W-APbY

 

And as always, make sue that the image will tile seamlessly horizontally. That is accomplished in a graphics app.

 

Edited February 18, 2020 by Kappes Buur

[ArgentFrequencies]

7 minutes ago, jval said:

You must edit the TEXTURE1 lump, locate the SKY texture and change the size to 1024x128.

 

Example (from TNT.WAD)

 

 

I added it to TextureX using Doom II as the base resource archive. Still doesn't work, even when replicating that screenshot.

Also, those are named SKY# instead of RSKY#. I might be missing like three different things here.

Edited February 18, 2020 by ArgentFrequencies

[ArgentFrequencies]

Just now, jval said:

 

The entry in TEXTURE1 lump must be SKY1, not RSKY1. RSKY1 is the patch name (witch can be anything).

Huh. That worked. How did that work? There's no SKY1 in Doom II.

[jval]

7 minutes ago, ArgentFrequencies said:

Huh. That worked. How did that work? There's no SKY1 in Doom II.

 

The engine uses SKYy entries from TEXTURESx lump. A SKYy texture entry contains the RSKYx patches. There is not SKYy lump in the WAD.

[ArgentFrequencies]

Just now, jval said:

 

The engine uses SKYy entries from TEXTURESx lump. A SKYy texture entry contains the RSKYx patches. There is not SKYy lump in the WAD.

I think that's the same with switches, right? A switch texture is made between a switch lump and wall lump, which is why you don't see a texture just for a switch?

[ArgentFrequencies]

6 minutes ago, jval said:

 

The engine uses SKYy entries from TEXTURESx lump. A SKYy texture entry contains the RSKYx patches. There is not SKYy lump in the WAD.

Wait a minute, it didn't quite work. GZDOOM builder depicts the full sky, while Chocolate Doom shows me RSKY1.

[ArgentFrequencies]

12 minutes ago, Diabolución said:

You have to use a graphics editor to split carefully (with neither skipping nor duplicating pixels) that sky into four patches of 256x128 with sensible names (GALAXKY1, GALAXKY2, GALAXKY3 and GALAXKY4, for example), as required by the vanilla engine. Then add them to PNAMES and edit the definition of SKY1 so that it consists of these four patches. Double-check the position of each patch, using as reference that sky of tnt.wad.

That's a very time-consuming process, but it works. Thanks!

[Kappes Buur]

Skies with round orbs such as this should be avoided.

Invariably they become distorted into egg shape when the viewpoint is changed.

 

[ArgentFrequencies]

1 hour ago, Kappes Buur said:

Skies with round orbs such as this should be avoided.

Invariably they become distorted into egg shape when the viewpoint is changed.

 

Good point. I saw this in-game as well, but I really do want this kind of realistic Phobos/Deimos sky. Are there any possible workarounds?

Edited February 19, 2020 by ArgentFrequencies

[Kappes Buur]

1 hour ago, ArgentFrequencies said:

.... Are there any possible workarounds?

 

No.

Notice how in TNT.wad they carefully avoided round shapes.

 

 

Even when used in a GZDoom GLDEFS skybox tearing will happen.

 

The only way I know of to avoid tearing by a great amount is for the round objects to be as far away as possible, that is to be really small. Or, in other words, the larger the round object the worse the tearing.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Kappes Buur

[ArgentFrequencies]

36 minutes ago, Kappes Buur said:

 

No.

Notice how in TNT.wad they carefully avoided round shapes.

 

 

Even when used in a GZDoom GLDEFS skybox tearing will happen.

 

The only way I know of to avoid tearing by a great amount is for the round objects to be as far away as possible, that is to be really small. Or, in other words, the larger the round object the worse the tearing.

 

 

 

 

 

Well, that makes a good-looking skybox featuring more than half a planet impossible then unless the warping is outright ignored. I suspect a skybox (I know it's not called this when it comes to Vanilla Doom. What's the equivalent called?) depicting being high above Earth could be passable though.

 

Edit: Excluding the sun, this is sort of what I mean:

Edited February 19, 2020 by ArgentFrequencies

[Doomkid]

FWIW, most people won't care about the stretchy skies. Any Doomer who plays in software is very used to this by now. Personally I don't think the egg-shaped planets look any worse than the rubber mountains of E1, and that sky texture you've chosen is swell.

[ketmar]

1 hour ago, Doomkid said:

Personally I don't think the egg-shaped planets look any worse than the rubber mountains of E1, and that sky texture you've chosen is swell.

yeah. in the extreme case of user pickyness we can simply say that Hell influence distorted the sky. go fight Hell if you want your normal skies back!

 

p.s.: it is very handy to have Hell invasion in the lore, yep.

Edited February 21, 2020 by ketmar

[Gez]

Of you can just blame refraction effects on the Doomguy's helmet visor.

[Kappes Buur]

8 hours ago, Gez said:

Of you can just blame refraction effects on the Doomguy's helmet visor.

 

I can see that happening with 1995's technology.

Nowadays, of course, this distortion would be optically corrected.

:)