This is Woof! 14.5.0 (Apr 30, 2024)

[phsi]

On 3/4/2020 at 1:46 AM, Revenant100 said:

Well, I know of no better ultimate stress test than the ultimate stress test! And, unfortunately, Woof!'s performance is severely lacking compared even to just the original WinMBF, let alone PrBoom+.

 

As the baseline, WinMBF loads MAP01 of 100krevs.wad in ~30 seconds. During the height of the action, gameplay runs at ~1-2 SPF. Not ideal, but tolerable. On the other hand, Woof! loads MAP01 of 100krevs.wad in ~2 minutes. During the height of the action, gameplay runs at ~12-20 SPF, a terribly drastic reduction. Here's a video I recorded showing this comparison:

Note I was running 1.0.0 at the time of recording a few hours ago, but I've just repeated this test in 1.0.1 and can confirm that there's no improvement in this regard. Based solely on performance, the original WinMBF is the much superior choice over Woof! by a considerable margin, and of course both pale in comparison to PrBoom+.

Being 2~3 years on from this, how does this comparison hold up in 2023?

[Andromeda]

The performance is much better now, the level loads instantly and runs at 3 FPS on my toaster.

[Shepardus]

Speaking of 100krevs, the revenants don't seem to die to each other like they do in dsda-doom. (-complevel 9 for both)

[rfomin]

3 hours ago, Shepardus said:

Speaking of 100krevs, the revenants don't seem to die to each other like they do in dsda-doom. (-complevel 9 for both)

It's fixed on GitHub, thanks for the bug report. Turns out there is a "Monsters Infight" field in Dehacked that was not supported in the original Boom/MBF.

[pantheon]

I really like the fix to the clicking crushers sound, but I still get clicking/popping noises in game on Windows 10. For instance, on MAP11 of Going Down, activating the crusher to kill the revenant at the beginning makes a noticeable crackle when its pain sound starts playing even though the crusher itself does not "click" anymore. I can also make it happen by changing the screen size quickly and triggering its sound. On MAP01 of Dead but Dreaming, at the very beginning, moving forward to trigger the crushers sounds fine but if I turn around quickly, I get popping correlating with my mouse movement. Stand still and it stops again. I can spam the screen size change without an issue in Chocolate and Crispy though. In GZDoom crushing the revenant pops a bit but looking around in DBD is fine. I have this problem in Eternity, DSDA, and PrBoom Plus latest versions too, so I guess it's probably an SDL thing? It's just really weird and I'd love to get rid of it somehow. Everything else is so clean now.

 

I've tried changing my sample and bit rate in game and Windows, changing slice size in other ports, changed the new resampling settings in Woof latest builds, pretty much anything I could find looking at old threads about audio issues. The sounds popping while looking around in Dead But Dreaming seems strange for sure. It would be great to know if anyone else can reproduce this or if it's just on my end.  

Edited February 16, 2023 by pantheon

[rfomin]

Not sure what you mean by "sound popping", I don't think I can reproduce it. Maybe you can record a video/sound clip?

 

I hear a "clicking" in the DBP25 just by quickly changing the audio volume in the menu. This issue is present in all SDL_Mixer based ports I have tested, works fine in GZDoom. So far I don't know how to fix it.

[pantheon]

8 minutes ago, rfomin said:

Not sure what you mean by "sound popping", I don't think I can reproduce it. Maybe you can record a video/sound clip?

 

I hear a "clicking" in the DBP25 just by quickly changing the audio volume in the menu. This issue is present in all SDL_Mixer based ports I have tested, works fine in GZDoom. So far I don't know how to fix it.

 

Sure thing! I recorded some audio here: https://vocaroo.com/17fnk9CgA5ci

 

That's the start of Dead but Dreaming. A few seconds in, the crushers start and everything sounds great. At 10 seconds I start moving the mouse quickly to turn around and the crackling starts. It stops when I stop turning again. Then at 23 seconds there's some crackling in the exit prompt sound. Of course you don't play the game just spinning around but it's intermittent playing normally, probably with quick movements. 

[rfomin]

Thanks, I can reproduce this but with less amount of "clicking". I'm assuming it has something to do with this particular SFX. I will try to investigate this more.

[fran]

Hello! I just noticed that the menu looks like this in all the versions I have compiled (since January 11), it has been looking like this all this time and I hadn't noticed or could it be a problem related to the SDL2 libraries? (I use macOS and updated the SDL2 libraries yesterday).

 

 

(I ask if it could be related to SDL2 as I seem to remember it was aligned with the other options, and I can't think of another reason other than that or my bad memory) :(

Edited February 16, 2023 by fran

[Alaux]

20 minutes ago, fran said:

Hello! I just noticed that the menu looks like this in all the versions I have compiled (since January 11), it has been looking like this all this time and I hadn't noticed or could it be a problem related to the SDL2 libraries?

Are you asking because of the odd positioning of the "MIDI Player" menu item? If so, I believe that's done intentionally to make space for MIDI devices (i.e. the green text, in this case "SDL2 Mixer") with potentially longer names.

[fran]

1 minute ago, Alaux said:

Are you asking because of the odd positioning of the "MIDI Player" menu item? If so, I believe that's done intentionally to make space for MIDI devices (i.e. the green text, in this case "SDL2 Mixer") with potentially longer names.

Yes, I just think I remember it was aligned with the other options

[pantheon]

Alaux is right. Pretty sure it changed when they let you load soundfonts through the menu. It was definitely relatively recent.

Edited February 16, 2023 by pantheon

[VoanHead]

Hey it’s-a me again

Uhh I’m not sure where to report this so I’m deciding to speak about it here: I was looking into this one odd thing in DBP31.wad where one of its main gimmicks is collecting boomerangs scattered across the map to unlock the exit. On other ports this gimmick works b/c it’s in limit-removing, but on woof the small gimmick breaks and you can just walk out the level ez w/o having to collect the boomerangs. Anybody have a clue why this happens, maybe this can get potentially fixed even if it’s a tiny little niche thing?

Edited February 16, 2023 by VoanHead

[fabian]

Sounds like a complevel issue to me. Which one are you using (type COMP while playing)? And which are the "other ports" where this map works? 

[rfomin]

Just now, fabian said:

Sounds like a complevel issue to me. Which one are you using (type COMP while playing)? And which are the "other ports" where this map works? 

I checked, this is due to randomly flipped corpses feature. These boomerangs are MT_KEEN with 1 health. I'm working on PR.

[fabian]

58 minutes ago, rfomin said:

I checked, this is due to randomly flipped corpses feature. These boomerangs are MT_KEEN with 1 health. I'm working on PR.

 

Impressive, thank you!

[VoanHead]

9 hours ago, fabian said:

Which one are you using (type COMP while playing)? And which are the "other ports" where this map works? 

Apologies for the late answer: complevel 2 since the txt file states it’s limit-removing, and the boomerang gimmick works on GZ, DSDA-Doom, Crispy, and PrBoomUM. 

[pantheon]

Not trying to jump the gun but what sort of features were added recently with the HUD overhaul? Will it be customizable similar to the Nugget and DSDA HUDs? Also I definitely like the (best) sinc resampling, it took a bit to get used to but the usual linear is too sibilant in comparison now. You can really hear the SSG's smooth reload too. It's its own sort of high def audio!

 

Would it be possible to add the iddkt/iddst/iddit (kill, secret, item) map finder cheats from DSDA?

Edited February 17, 2023 by pantheon

[Alaux]

2 hours ago, pantheon said:

Not trying to jump the gun but what sort of features were added recently with the HUD overhaul? Will it be customizable similar to the Nugget and DSDA HUDs?

From what I can gather, the new WOOFHUD lump offers similar customization functionality to that of the DSDAHUD lump, albeit more restrictive: basically, it lets you shuffle the Boom HUD widgets around the corners of the screen. That seems to be it, at least so far. See this example.

 

As far as I understand: WOOFHUD is for customizing the Boom HUD (possibly also the Crispy HUD to some degree), DSDAHUD is for the Boom and Extended HUDs (the latter being the Status Bar + Boom HUD widgets), and NUGHUD is for the Crispy HUD only.

[pantheon]

22 hours ago, Alaux said:

From what I can gather, the new WOOFHUD lump offers similar customization functionality to that of the DSDAHUD lump, albeit more restrictive: basically, it lets you shuffle the Boom HUD widgets around the corners of the screen. That seems to be it, at least so far. See this example.

 

As far as I understand: WOOFHUD is for customizing the Boom HUD (possibly also the Crispy HUD to some degree), DSDAHUD is for the Boom and Extended HUDs (the latter being the Status Bar + Boom HUD widgets), and NUGHUD is for the Crispy HUD only.

 

Thanks! Lots of good info there. I took liPillON's layout and stuck the Eternity fonts in there. I like it, it's refined and legible. A good nod to the Team Eternity heritage maybe.

 

Edit: Recolored and resized the height a bit and everything changes color and lines up nicely. If anyone wants to try it out, get a dev build and extract the zip to the doom-all autoload folder. 

 

 

EEFont_WOOFHUD.zip

 

Additional font version without the cute shading. Some PWADs change the gray I guess and it looks a bit ugly, see comparison (new on bottom)

 

EEHUD_Font_Translated.zip

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by pantheon

[s4f3s3x]

What does the VGA Porch Flash setting emulate?

Sometimes I turn it on 'cause it looks kinda nice when I play in 4:3, but I'm curious to know more about what it was... historically?

[liPillON]

VGA output consists of a rectangular array of logical pixels.

CRT screens instead were "squircle-shaped" canvas over which the logical pixels could be "painted" without alignment constraints.

Back in the day, the VGA output would never cover the entirety of a CRT screen and the "unpainted" screen edge area was called "porch"

On flat LCD screens there's no porch, as each VGA's logical pixel can be mapped directly to a specific LCD's physical pixel.

 

Something similar to a VGA porch can be experienced when setting up a source port to:

- use a 4:3 rendering resolution on a 16:9 screen (pillar boxing)

- use a 16:9 rendering resolution on a 4:3 screen (letter boxing)

- using integer "pixel-perfect" scaler 

 

 

In games like Doom for DOS, the "uninitialized" screen area would be evenly colored (eg: in red when taking damage, etc..)

Source ports that offers the "VGA Porch Flash" option seek to emulate this effect.

 

However, you'll be eable to notice it only under the circumstances described above.

Playing fullscreen with integer scaling enabled should be enough.

 

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Delfino Furioso

[pantheon]

 

This is a nice way to see the effect on a real monitor. At about 2:20 there are a bunch of flashes picking up the treasures. I remember the flashing playing Wolf3D on my old IBM way back when. It's a super badass feature that I wish every port had, makes 4:3 on a widescreen monitor much livelier and more natural feeling. This feature just screams good taste :) 

Edited February 22, 2023 by pantheon

[pltr]

Are the fully saturated HUD elements from Crispy Doom coming to Woof? This thing has always bugged me a bit. For example, if you load Alien Vendetta into Crispy Doom v5.9.2 (top), the HUD elements are fully yellow, green, and red. In Woof! 10.5.1 (bottom), only their bottom halves are colorized, and only barely. 

 

 

If you load Speed of Doom into Crispy, the HUD is colorized, while in Woof, there's no color at all.

[dististik]

I think the way Woof! does colored numbers currently is by finding pixels in the red range and shifting them to the appropriate ranges for yellow, green, and blue (and maybe silver as well for invuln? but I'm less confident in that). I'd mostly be curious in how Crispy's colored numbers work since they'd be a welcome addition in my book as I've recently started considering making my own additional wads for sets that don't recolor due to an assumed a lack of any red range.

[Average]

Funnily enough I have a question regarding how colours work in Woof!, too.  I'm curious about the way 'brightmaps' work.  Is there some arcane trickery going on with the palette or is it just a case of certain colours in the standard palette are earmarked to be full-bright at all times?  If it's the latter does anyone have a full list of the applicable colours, at all? 

[pantheon]

Speaking of brightmaps, could the Crispy toggles for walls/items also be added to Woof? It feels a bit wrong to easily find cell ammo that the mapper meant to hide. Or is this something I can just do with the Doom Retro lump support?

[rfomin]

11 hours ago, Average said:

If it's the latter does anyone have a full list of the applicable colours, at all?

There is brghtmps.lmp in autoload/doom-all folder in current dev version.

 

2 hours ago, pantheon said:

Or is this something I can just do with the Doom Retro lump support?

Yes, you can add this line to BRGTMPS lump:

SPRITE CELL NOBRIGHTMAP

 

[Average]

Thanks for the info.  I just quickly opened it for a look-see while watching Formula E on telly and found it's in text format.  I'm such a noob to such things that I'll have to wait till later to decipher it.  :)

Edited February 25, 2023 by Average

[Average]

I think I might've found in a bug in Woof.  Something seems not to trigger in Map 07 of Alien Vendetta.  I kill all the baddies and flick the 2 switches but the barrier to leave the level is still up and I can't finish it without no-clipping.

 

Nugget Doom couldn't even load the map and crashes out!

 

Just to make sure, I tried the map in GZD and DSDA and both ports handled it fine.

 

I'm using the latest dev build of Woof! if that makes any difference.